Willis,
I did this once before, maybe you did not see it; look at the parts i highlight,, it tells us which ungodly paul is describing here.....look and re-read the passage.
Willis....can you see how it is only speaking of the justified?
the us the we tell us which ungodly persons he is speaking of.
ungodly in contrast to a good or righteous man vs7....do you see it Willis:wavey:
The ungodly who are unsaved and not justified...do not have the Holy Spirit given unto them vs5
the unsaved do not glory in tribulation vs 3
the unsaved cannot say were...as in verse 8.......take a look Willis
Well Brother, Apostle Paul was saying
us and
we because he was addressing the church at Rome.
Romans 1
1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,
2 (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,)
3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:
5 By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:
6 Among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ:
7
To all that be in Rome, beloved of God,
called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.
It is the same way with the two letters sent to the church at Corinth, the one sent to Galatia, to Phillipi(sp?) etc. So, of course Christ died for them, because it states elsewhere that Christ loved the church, and even died for her. But, here, Apostle Paul broadens the "scope" a bit, and states that Christ died for the ungodly. Christ died to make the way for us Gentiles to be gathered into the flock as well. Without His atoning work of the cross, we'd be hopeless even to this very day. Right here is where the elect comes in. He chose us, the Gentiles, because the Jews rejected His only begotten Son, full of Grace and Truth.
Now, look at two people who DoGers catergorize as non-elects. First we have the rich young ruler. When he came to Jesus, it states that Jesus loved Him. He then asked Jesus what must he do i to inherit eternal life. Jesus told him the very things that he needed to do, and he walked away sorrowful, because he loved his possessions more than eternal life. Second, look at Jezebel. She was a wicked woman, if ever there was one. And yet, in Revelation, God gave her a space to repent, and she repented not. So here are two people who were given a "chance", but they failed to "seize the day". So it shows that those who die lost, chose to die in that state, not yielding to the unction of the Holy Ghost.
, Christ died for the ungodly. It did not say the ungodly elect, just ungodly, nothing more, nothing less. 