Noooooo....they are elect "IN CHRIST". You must be in Christ to be one of the elect. God has chosen those who believe Christ to receive salvation. That is what makes one elect.
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Why Does "Arminian Theology" get A bad name here On BB?
- Thread starter JesusFan
- Start date
Noooooo....they are elect "IN CHRIST". You must be in Christ to be one of the elect. God has chosen those who believe Christ to receive salvation. That is what makes one elect.
Yes, they are elect in Christ. But you were elected before the foundation of the world. Your election was in Christ yes, but the timing of the election was "before the foundation of the world."
Which means the intent to die for the sin of the world was determined.
Noooooo....they are elect "IN CHRIST". You must be in Christ to be one of the elect. God has chosen those who believe Christ to receive salvation. That is what makes one elect.
That would be the "classic" Arminian view on this doctrine of election, as they would see that God bases His foreknowledge of election of the saints due to their faith in Christ, that is why Threy have been chosen and saved, whule Cals see it based upon His determining the election beforehand, by His will only!
"Modified" view on Arminian view see God has determing/predestinating the Gospel/plan/Church, and that your faith makes you part of joining that elected out corporate Body!
I said nothing about foreknowledge. I do not believe God looks through the corridors of time and sees who will believe and bases His salvation on that. God's foreordained plan was to give eternal life to those who believe. Those who believe are the elect. You cannot be elect apart from Christ. The Cal doctrine has God placing people in Christ before they even express faith in Him.
Salvation is always God's will because it is He who makes the decision whether you will be allowed to receive eternal life. The only decision we make is whether to obey the gospel or not.
convicted1
Guest
:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:
That is not what Jesus said
Why would you want to say the opposite of what is taught very plainly here?
mandym....error can be "very well put" as well as truth. I believe you have done this when you responded to jbh28 here;
Mandym.....while the scope of the atonement was worldwide,not israel only....the intent was always a perfect covenant death for those who are sanctified
convicted1
Guest
That is not what Jesus said
Brother Iconoclast wrote this:
26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
27My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
They were not His sheep because they were cut off because of their continual rebellion.
John the Baptist stated, "Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the WHOLE World". When He died, He had taken every sin, past present, and future, and nailed them to His flesh, therefore, condemning sin in the flesh. If He took all sins upon Himself, He died for everyone. Romans 5:6 states that Christ died for the ungodly....nothing more and nothing less.
Bottom line on this though is cals hold to the "basis" of election/salvation being the Will of God to save His own people, while Non cals base it upon our response by faith to Him!
The bible makes it clear that faith is required. Do you believe that? Does that mean you are non-cal?
We need to place faith in Jesus to get saved, but even THAT faith is a gift from the Lord, as I do not have that inherit within me!
Faith required for salvation, not election.
Correct. 1 Cor. 2:14 explains that the natural man is unable to understand the things of the Spirit of God. Ephesians 2:8, 9 reveal that salvation, grace, and faith are all "the gift of God."
Agreed. Election is not required for salvation. Salvation is by grace through faith in Christ alone. Election is simply God's choosing.
Very good choice of words brother :thumbs:
If God only saves those He "elects", then election is required.
Interesting....do you believe elected people have a divine reprieve from hell?
I have no idea what that means. I was simply responding to Herald's post.
Amy, forensically election is not required for salvation. Election is a necessary component in calling God's elect, but the actual saving is done through regeneration. Now, if you're lumping both together (election + regeneration = salvation) I can see how you arrive at your conclusion. Don't worry. I'm not playing "gotcha"; it's just that definition of terms is so important in these discussions. I've read the threads on this board long before I joined. I watch so much dishonest debating, where one person tries to hang the other over a misstatement. I usually don't point out misstatements or poorly chosen terminology unless they misrepresent biblical doctrine or are part of a personal attack.