Why does God Allow Christians to Suffer

[Sai]

love one another. It is good to read the entir


A baby suffers when it's mother uses drugs and alcohol your conclusion leads one to believe that this baby's suffering was because forgives requires it which doesn't make sense. This is why I asked for clarity earlier. I'm trying to understand your assertion.

Sin is the root cause of all suffering whether our own or another's, but this doesn't really explain why God allows suffering. A cause is not really a reason.

The point is about debts created because of a transgression.

The mother passes the meth into her baby. The baby now has a deficit and is paying for that deficit and that created cost. It cannot forgive. But the debt remains none the same. Someone will always pay for the creation of debt when it is caused upon an innocent party. Either the victim pays for it or the guilty person pays for it, it will always be paid. For now the baby cannot forgive because it doesn’t know forgiveness. But when the child comes of age and realizes that their mother caused physical and emotional deficits because of passing the meth into their life from the womb that are non reversible, that young person now can choose to make the mother pay this lifetime debt of illness or maybe less than normal health that he or she will have to endure by an angry hostile attitude and by demanding financial recourse and even by rejoicing at any misfortunes that their mother may find in her life.

Or

The young person can choose to forgive their mother knowing that the flesh couldn’t help itself, the young person can make a covenant with their mind and say, I forgive you. Meaning that each time he or she has to deal with the consequences that mom created like physical pain or mental health, that he or she will endure these silently independently and without mentally or emotionally connecting the suffering with their mother, they can agape her and suffer that debt by paying for it their self. The debt will be paid


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[Charles Perkins]

The point is about debts created because of a transgression.

I agree that sin leads to the consequences of sin which leads to death. We all need forgiveness and that Christ paid the penalty for our sins thereby forgiving our debt of sin.

The scripture also tells us that Christ learned obedience through suffering.

Hebrews 5:8

 

[Sai]

I agree that sin leads to the consequences of sin which leads to death. We all need forgiveness and that Christ paid the penalty for our sins thereby forgiving our debt of sin.

The scripture also tells us that Christ learned obedience through suffering.

Hebrews 5:8

Romans 15:1


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[Charles Perkins]

Romans 15:1

Not sure how this contributes to the conversation.

Romans 15:1 tells that we then that are strong ought to bear the infirmities of the weak, and not please ourselves.

Then is a conjunction referring back to the previous chapter. Chapter 14 is speaking of eating meats and there was a dispute of some kind that was not entirely settled doctrine.

The word infirmities according to Strong's concordance refers "to error resulting from weakness of mind." Thayer's and Vines both agree to this definition.

Romans 14:1 would suggest then that these that are strong are strong in faith and they ought to then help those weak in the faith who may error or have errored do to this weakness of mind. Specifically it was regarding the eating of meats.

The strong therefore should refrain from eating if it might cause someone weak in the faith and understanding to err.

 

[Sai]

Not sure how this contributes to the conversation.

Romans 15:1 tells that we then that are strong ought to bear the infirmities of the weak, and not please ourselves.

Then is a conjunction referring back to the previous chapter. Chapter 14 is speaking of eating meats and there was a dispute of some kind that was not entirely settled doctrine.

The word infirmities according to Strong's concordance refers "to error resulting from weakness of mind." Thayer's and Vines both agree to this definition.

Romans 14:1 would suggest then that these that are strong are strong in faith and they ought to then help those weak in the faith who may error or have errored do to this weakness of mind. Specifically it was regarding the eating of meats.

The strong therefore should refrain from eating if it might cause someone weak in the faith and understanding to err.

“For Christ also pleased not himself; but, as it is written, The reproaches of them that reproached thee fell upon me. For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that through patience and through comfort of the scriptures we might have hope. Now the God of patience and of comfort grant you to be of the same mind one with another according to Christ Jesus: that with one accord ye may with one mouth glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭15:3-6‬ ‭ASV‬‬
Romans 15:3-6 For Christ also pleased not himself; but, as it is written, The reproaches of them that reproached thee fell upon me. For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that t | American Standard Version (ASV) | Download The Bible App Now


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[Charles Perkins]

“For Christ also pleased not himself; but, as it is written, The reproaches of them that reproached thee fell upon me. For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that through patience and through comfort of the scriptures we might have hope. Now the God of patience and of comfort grant you to be of the same mind one with another according to Christ Jesus: that with one accord ye may with one mouth glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭15:3-6‬ ‭ASV‬‬
Romans 15:3-6 For Christ also pleased not himself; but, as it is written, The reproaches of them that reproached thee fell upon me. For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that t | American Standard Version (ASV) | Download The Bible App Now


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As you say the context continues in Chapter 15.

 

[Sai]

As you say the context continues in Chapter 15.

So as Christ was ridiculed by his enemies while suffering on the cross Paul is telling us we are going to ridicule each other (fellow believers) and that if we have the mind of Christ, God is glorified. We need to endure one another’s idiosyncrasies. But not you Barry.


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[Charles Perkins]

So, how does this impact Hebrews 5:8? Were we are told that Christ learned obedience through suffering. These are God's words as well.

 

[AustinC]

So, how does this impact Hebrews 5:8? Were we are told that Christ learned obedience through suffering. These are God's words as well.

We need to keep the context of Hebrews 5 and the authors comparison of Jesus with Melchizedek so that we can follow his thoughts about Jesus being greater than.

 

[Sai]

So, how does this impact Hebrews 5:8? Were we are told that Christ learned obedience through suffering. These are God's words as well.

Idk


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[Charles Perkins]

We need to keep the context of Hebrews 5 and the authors comparison of Jesus with Melchizedek so that we can follow his thoughts about Jesus being greater than.

Agreed context is extremely important in any discussion. When I read a scripture, I read it in its specific context particularly and from the general context I have developed to date. There is other evidence in the Bible as well that we as Christians learn obedience through suffering.

Questions come to mind though, obedience to what is one? Context explains the answer to that.

Hebrews 5:1 speaks of high priests being ordained for men that they may have understanding in spiritual things those things that are of God, such as mercy, faith, hope, love, kindness, peace, etc.

verse 2 This understanding that God imparts leads to compassion one of the fruits of God's Spirit. and this comes from realizing through the Spirit of God that a high priest also has infirmities - this word refers to bodily weaknesses and frailty which is the human condition.

Already you can begin to see how it is that Christ learned obedience through suffering. Christ had a full measure of God's Spirit and knew his very human physical weakness and frailty. Christ had humility, he knew his condition, and Christ knew he was to be the High Priest for men before God.

verse 3 ,A high Priest offers sacrifice for the people and for himself. In this case no sacrifice was required for Christ who had no sin, but Christ's sacrifice was required for the people and Christ is the perfect sacrifice for all people.

verse 4 This honor must be given which it was by God the Father to Christ.

verse 5 This makes it clearer that Christ was given this honor by the Father

verse 6 After the order of Melchisedec referring back to the time of Abraham before the law was given at Mount Sinai

verse 7 Christ prayed strongly to the Father that he might be saved from this great suffering. Christ was in a physical body and he knew the great suffering that would come to pass. Regardless of this human frailty Christ desired to be subject to the Father and to do what was good for mankind.

The context shows us how Christ learned obedience in suffering. It also shows that we are being obedient to God our Father as we trust God who gives us spiritual gifts and spiritual understanding.

One can continue with the context, but I'll stop here.

 

[AustinC]

Agreed context is extremely important in any discussion. When I read a scripture, I read it in its specific context particularly and from the general context I have developed to date. There is other evidence in the Bible as well that we as Christians learn obedience through suffering.

Questions come to mind though, obedience to what is one? Context explains the answer to that.

Hebrews 5:1 speaks of high priests being ordained for men that they may have understanding in spiritual things those things that are of God, such as mercy, faith, hope, love, kindness, peace, etc.

verse 2 This understanding that God imparts leads to compassion one of the fruits of God's Spirit. and this comes from realizing through the Spirit of God that a high priest also has infirmities - this word refers to bodily weaknesses and frailty which is the human condition.

Already you can begin to see how it is that Christ learned obedience through suffering. Christ had a full measure of God's Spirit and knew his very human physical weakness and frailty. Christ had humility, he knew his condition, and Christ knew he was to be the High Priest for men before God.

verse 3 ,A high Priest offers sacrifice for the people and for himself. In this case no sacrifice was required for Christ who had no sin, but Christ's sacrifice was required for the people and Christ is the perfect sacrifice for all people.

verse 4 This honor must be given which it was by God the Father to Christ.

verse 5 This makes it clearer that Christ was given this honor by the Father

verse 6 After the order of Melchisedec referring back to the time of Abraham before the law was given at Mount Sinai

verse 7 Christ prayed strongly to the Father that he might be saved from this great suffering. Christ was in a physical body and he knew the great suffering that would come to pass. Regardless of this human frailty Christ desired to be subject to the Father and to do what was good for mankind.

The context shows us how Christ learned obedience in suffering. It also shows that we are being obedient to God our Father as we trust God who gives us spiritual gifts and spiritual understanding.

One can continue with the context, but I'll stop here.

What do you mean by this phrase:
"Christ had a full measure of God's Spirit."

This phrase comes across to me as viewing Jesus as less than God (Adonai) himself. Please clarify.

 

[Alofa Atu]

As Christians we are told in 1 Pet 3:15 always to be ready to give an answer to those that ask the reason of the hope that lies in us in a spirit of meekness. Elsewhere God tells us that he will give us the words when a situation comes up.

We know that Christ suffered a great deal the last day of his life. Christ though unlike us was without blemish and yet God allowed Christ to suffer. We all have sinned and some of us greatly.

Some might say we deserve the suffering that comes to us in our lives, and to that I have to say yes and far more at least in my case. This though doesn't really answer the question. In my humble opinion we all deserve the penalties of our sins, but Christ came to forgives us, and to lead us into a Spirit led life of faith and love. So again I ask why suffering?

God tells us in his word.
P34:15-22 God allows them so that we can see his deliverance
1 Cor 3:9-13 God tests us to see what we are building on the foundation he has provided us

Some times we suffer for righteousness sake. God tells us that it is better to suffer wrongly, suffer ourselves to be defrauded. Why? It is a matter of trust. God tells us that we will have many afflictions and that he will deliver us from them all (Ps 34:19).

1 Cor 1:6 affliction is for our consolation and salvation. One might ask but how? We are to love the brethren suffering is an opportunity to love others. It is also an opportunity to exercise faith that trust in God that he will make a way in our suffering and help us in our time of need.

Seeing suffering as an opportunity to exercise the Spirit God gives us is impossible to the world, but for Christians it is required so that we learn obedience just as Christ we are told learned obedience through suffering (Heb 5:8).

Why does God Allow Christians to Suffer

How do you answer when confronted with this question especially by those just learning about Christ?

First and short thought is:

God is love, and because that is so, God allows us to suffer, rather than to perish (wages of sin). In other words, instead of everlasting death, which we deserved (all in Adam, through sin), through Christ Jesus, we are allowed to live in God's grace, and as such there exists suffering because evil/sin, at present, is also allowed to exist, until such time it is completely dealt with, which then, suffering will end, as promised, and there will be a return to life without suffering, eternal death having been averted.

 

[Charles Perkins]

First and short thought is:

God is love, and because that is so, God allows us to suffer, rather than to perish (wages of sin). In other words, instead of everlasting death, which we deserved (all in Adam, through sin), through Christ Jesus, we are allowed to live in God's grace, and as such there exists suffering because evil/sin, at present, is also allowed to exist, until such time it is completely dealt with, which then, suffering will end, as promised, and there will be a return to life without suffering, eternal death having been averted.

I agree sin causes the suffering. Through suffering we as Christians are humbled, brought closer to God, can learn empathy, compassion, love, and learn to act in faith. Suffering leads to obedience in this way because we come to act in faith and love.

 

[Charles Perkins]

What do you mean by this phrase:
"Christ had a full measure of God's Spirit."

This phrase comes across to me as viewing Jesus as less than God (Adonai) himself. Please clarify.

What I was referring to is John 3:34. For he whom God has sent speaks the words of God: for God gives not the Spirit by measure unto him. Christ has full access to the Holy Spirit where as Christians are given the Spirit by measure.

 

[AustinC]

What I was referring to is John 3:34. For he whom God has sent speaks the words of God: for God gives not the Spirit by measure unto him. Christ has full access to the Holy Spirit where as Christians are given the Spirit by measure.

I still don't follow you. Your words speak like you are not Trinitarian.

 

[Sai]

Why does God allow us to suffer?
... ask Barry

 

[Charles Perkins]

I still don't follow you. Your words speak like you are not Trinitarian.

I moved this topic to another post regarding the nature of the spirit. I don't want to dismiss the question though.

Why God allows suffering is a question we hear so often especially from those grieving and possibly disillusioned by circumstances. God makes many promises through out his word and we can know that God is faithful. In suffering there is much that we can learn. Suffering is brought on by sins, but God allows it. We are told that God works all things together for good (Romans 8:28). So suffering serves a good purpose.

 

[kyredneck]

So as Christ was ridiculed by his enemies while suffering on the cross Paul is telling us we are going to ridicule each other (fellow believers) and that if we have the mind of Christ, God is glorified. We need to endure one another’s idiosyncrasies. But not you Barry.

Why does God allow us to suffer?
... ask Barry

Charlie is Barry?

 

[Sai]

Charlie is Barry?

Brother Barry the anti predestination dude.