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Why does one lose their salvation?
- Thread starter BCF Jeff
- Start date
DeafPosttrib
New Member
Salvation is the most important of the doctrines in the Bible. Everyone are desire want to have eternal life or want to live in the heaven with the Lord.
Calvinists and Arminians both have debate on salvation for many years. It is endless.
Myself was before securist during in my early Christian life. Till I study and find many passages in the Bible showing me there are so much overwhelmed evidences these telling us of condition with warnings.
Luke chapter 15 is the perfect example of talking about salvation.
Often, I hear many Christians saying, these who are falling away and continuing in sins are not saved IN THE FIRST PLACE.
Luke chapter telling us the three illustrations of sheep, coin, and son. At the first place, the shepherd owns 100 sheep in the fence. When he relaized there is one missing sheep, he have to lookng to find a lost sheep. It apply to us, that we are responsible to bring bacslidder back to the Lord. OR... what if we ignore backslidders, we are allowing them on the way to everlasting fire.
Second illustration - lost coin. At the first place, a lady already owns ten coins. One day, she decides go to the store to buy something, so she taking all ten coins, but she realizes there is a missing coin. She cannot afford to lost a coin. Same with us, we are responsible to bring backslidder back to the Lord as disciplship them. OR... if we neglect or ignore backslidders, we are allowing backslidders on the way to everlasting fire.
Third illustration - lost son. At the first place, father owns two sons. One day, his younger son decides want to leave his father go on his own way. Son tells his father, he want father's inheritance to give it to him, and he walks away from his father. He become lost. He goes in his own way. While he is the dark life, he realized that he is no longer called father's son, he decides repent of his life, turn back to his father. When son returns to his father, father see his son coming, he just immediately run to his son right away, and hug him, show that God is mercy and patience toward us, not want us go perish but come to repentance - 1 Peter 3:9. Father says of his son, he was lost and dead, but now found and alive again.
What IF... a son never turn back to his father, then he is remain always lost and dead, which is speak of spiritual death, are on the way to everlasting fire.
Clearly, the context of Luke chapter 15 is speaking of condition with our decisions and our conclusion.
And there is much more passages in the Bible talking lot on conditonal with warnings, no way we can afford to neglect them.
There is no unconditional security salvation teaching find anywhere in the Bible.
I rather follow what the Bible saying than what men saying according Colossians 2:8.
In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!
Calvinists and Arminians both have debate on salvation for many years. It is endless.
Myself was before securist during in my early Christian life. Till I study and find many passages in the Bible showing me there are so much overwhelmed evidences these telling us of condition with warnings.
Luke chapter 15 is the perfect example of talking about salvation.
Often, I hear many Christians saying, these who are falling away and continuing in sins are not saved IN THE FIRST PLACE.
Luke chapter telling us the three illustrations of sheep, coin, and son. At the first place, the shepherd owns 100 sheep in the fence. When he relaized there is one missing sheep, he have to lookng to find a lost sheep. It apply to us, that we are responsible to bring bacslidder back to the Lord. OR... what if we ignore backslidders, we are allowing them on the way to everlasting fire.
Second illustration - lost coin. At the first place, a lady already owns ten coins. One day, she decides go to the store to buy something, so she taking all ten coins, but she realizes there is a missing coin. She cannot afford to lost a coin. Same with us, we are responsible to bring backslidder back to the Lord as disciplship them. OR... if we neglect or ignore backslidders, we are allowing backslidders on the way to everlasting fire.
Third illustration - lost son. At the first place, father owns two sons. One day, his younger son decides want to leave his father go on his own way. Son tells his father, he want father's inheritance to give it to him, and he walks away from his father. He become lost. He goes in his own way. While he is the dark life, he realized that he is no longer called father's son, he decides repent of his life, turn back to his father. When son returns to his father, father see his son coming, he just immediately run to his son right away, and hug him, show that God is mercy and patience toward us, not want us go perish but come to repentance - 1 Peter 3:9. Father says of his son, he was lost and dead, but now found and alive again.
What IF... a son never turn back to his father, then he is remain always lost and dead, which is speak of spiritual death, are on the way to everlasting fire.
Clearly, the context of Luke chapter 15 is speaking of condition with our decisions and our conclusion.
And there is much more passages in the Bible talking lot on conditonal with warnings, no way we can afford to neglect them.
There is no unconditional security salvation teaching find anywhere in the Bible.
I rather follow what the Bible saying than what men saying according Colossians 2:8.
In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!
Soulman said:
I agree that we choose to run to Christ. But I specifically said it is not a matter of choosing salvation of our own free will.
The rest of your post contradicts the Bible in several places. For example, when Jesus says "you are of your father the devil" it is in comparison to those who are His. He is explaining to them WHY they do not believe. That should tell you right there it's not a matter of choosing of your own free will to believe.
As for who choses salvation (Does God chose you or you chose God?) I belive it is both. The Holy Spirit choose to convict and to present the Gospel through another believer or the Bible or tract and we chose to repond in either faith or denial.
I don't believe in unconditional salvation, but I do believe that there is one condition, genuine faith. Once the condition is met salvation is granted, we are justified on the spot (made His children), then sanctified over time. We will eventially be glorified.
I don't believe in unconditional salvation, but I do believe that there is one condition, genuine faith. Once the condition is met salvation is granted, we are justified on the spot (made His children), then sanctified over time. We will eventially be glorified.
...and "why" don't they want to believe? It's not because they are forced not to, it's because, like Eve, they choose to believe a lie from the father of lies, making satan their "father". Read the rest...
Joh 8:44 You are of your father the Devil, and you want to carry out your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning and has not stood in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he tells a lie, he speaks from his own nature, because he is a liar and the father of liars.
Brother Bob
New Member
Now I say there is a man who knows his Scripture.
Hope of Glory
New Member
EdSutton said:
Yep. Now, if only more people could see this and quit applying works to keeping or proving salvation...
Amen!BCF Jeff said:
But are they faithful "in Christ"? I believe I may be able to help, as you believe in OSAS. But most Baptists say they believe this, yet are unable to show by scripture they present that it actually is the gospel of OSAS. Our belief is to be "faith in Christ now and always", and not then, for that then wasn't, and isn't our faith.
But what are we to think if "doubt" is present. It would have to indicate they are not saved, or they do not understand their salvation, and of course you have put them into the latter category. But where is the "joy", the "liberty and freedom" in our lives in Christ, if we think we can lose our salvation? Are we not to be sure? If not is it possible that their salvation is of that of John the Baptist, and that of Acts 2:38? But is that even possible today? I find our salvation today in Acts 16:28-31, and venture to say that is what they believe, but they continue to mix by faith with their through faith?
The only way I believe it can be explained is to explain "our OSAS" salvation. Once we are in the Body of Christ there is no way we can ever get out. We are saved through faith, and they are endeavoring to be saved by faith. If so they come by "proselysation" into the Jewish Pentecostal faith of Jerusalem of the circumcision, and not of the Body of Christ Church, as preached in Antioch. This is the reason Paul, and Barnabas went to the Jewish Apostolic church in Jerusalem, taking Titus with them. They wanted to stop the "troublers" in Judah from preaching their "circumcision gospel" to the Gentile's. The Apostles, and James of Jerusalem shook the hands of those from the Christian church in Antioch agreeing that Pentecostal church was not to preach their gospel to the Gentile's.
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Brother Bob
New Member
Yea, some still want to be circumcised but that was works under the law.
Rom 3:27 Where [is] boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
Rom 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
Rom 3:29 [Is he] the God of the Jews only? [is he] not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:
Rom 3:30 Seeing [it is] one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
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Brother Bob
New Member
It means the works of the Law of Circumcism means nothing anymore.
Hope of Glory
New Member
And no work that any man could do, either good or bad, could gain him everlasting salvation, keep his salvation, or prove his salvation.
Yet, many people still try to apply works to spiritual salvation.
Yet, many people still try to apply works to spiritual salvation.
Brother Bob
New Member
You must believe!
Brother Bob
New Member
That Jesus is the Christ the Son of the Living God.
Except you believe that I am He you shall die in your sins and where I am you cannot come. peace
Hbr 11:6But without faith [it is] impossible to please [him]: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and [that] he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
Except you believe that I am He you shall die in your sins and where I am you cannot come. peace
Hbr 11:6But without faith [it is] impossible to please [him]: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and [that] he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
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Amen Brother Bob. But even in that day one of the twelve that was sure and believed, was lost. This is on the foundation that Peter laid his gospel that Jesus gave to Him for the "kingdom that was at hand, and to come". The Jew had to "endure until the end". But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.Brother Bob said:
I personally believe in OSAS, and this is only found on the foundation that Paul laid his gospel that Christ Jesus gave to Him for the "Body of Christ Church", which will come to "them". The rapture is next, then comes the "kingdom". For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles… Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel.
Yes Jesus said this to the scribes and Pharisees of Israel in that day. When He is gone He tells them, they will seek Him, but they will die in their sins.
Praise God for Damascus Road. Today we know where to find Him and we are already spiritually with Him. Quite a difference in that dispensation and this one.
Yes, the gospel to the Jew is on those that are saved "by" faith with a good report (verse 2). By faith always indicates a trailing accessory is needed. We see in verse 7, By faith Noah…" From Adam to Noah to Damascus Road we find this to be true that all came by faith with their works for the mere fact that no one before knew His name, and He had not shed His Blood. Isn't this part of what God had hidden? This is the reason they had to endure until the end. He knows their "works" before Damascus Road, and He knows their works after the "rapture" as shown in the first part of John's Revelation.
We today know His name, and when we believe on His name for our salvation, we are "sanctified" as we come through His faith, His blood, into His Body, there "justified" without hands, as we are circumcised, baptized, and sealed. There is no breaking of these "three cords". Please don't tell me this was all known before Christ from heaven revealed these facts to us.
psalms109:31
Active Member
Truth
If we truely believe what Jesus has done for us on the cross, how could we go back to the life we once lived.
Some just follow the crowd, and the test of thier faith comes they scatter.
1 John 2:19
They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
If we truely believe what Jesus has done for us on the cross, how could we go back to the life we once lived.
Some just follow the crowd, and the test of thier faith comes they scatter.
1 John 2:19
They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
Brother Bob
New Member
They worshiped in the flesh and did not have the Holy Spirit inwardly even though the Holy Spirit moved upon them but we today have to worship in Spirit and in Truth. The Lord took it out of the flesh and put it down in the heart. amen,
I will answer the rest later but Judas was chosen for what he was the "son of perdition that the plan might be fulfilled. As far as believing it is still to us as it was to them as the following scripture says.
Romans, chapter 10
"4": For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
"5": For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.
"6": But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above
"7": Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)
"8": But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
"9": That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
"10": For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
As far as being revealed unto us it was by Christ but God already knew. God knows all, he even knows how and when we will die for He has already saw it. He is from everlasting to everlasting and is a all knowing God.
That which is born of God cannot sin, which is the part that is "born again" the inwardly part so if it can't sin how can it fall?
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