Why follow the world honoring Easter & Christmas

[J.D.]

you are willing to mock as idolators those of us who use the secular celebration of Christmas as an opportunity to preach Christ

That's not what I said. I said nothing about "secular" observation. However, I do consider an Eostre or Christ-mass "service" to be a violation of not ony the regulative principle, but is a direct violation of the commandment of God as quoted in my post.

I am not against soul winning, but I am against using soul winning as an excuse to disobey God.

 

[John of Japan]

That's not what I said. I said nothing about "secular" observation. However, I do consider an Eostre or Christ-mass "service" to be a violation of not ony the regulative principle, but is a direct violation of the commandment of God as quoted in my post.

I am not against soul winning, but I am against using soul winning as an excuse to disobey God.

Okay, I'll accept your clarification. But you must know that you were very unclear in your first post. Since as far as I remember I was the only one who had mentioned giving the Gospel at Christmas and Easter, how was I to know you were not mocking me? And you were mocking, whoever your target was. Please be more clear next time.

And now that brings me to your accusation that celebrating a Christmas or Easter service in the church is idolatry. Frankly, I think that is ridiculous. I have seen pure idolatry literally hundreds of times in many places: children bowing and praying to a roadside jizo (child Buddha), a Shinto ceremony dedicating a house, people bowing to the "Great Buddha" (60 feet tall) in Kamakura near where we used to live in Yokohama, people worshipping the dead person at funerals (even a Japanese Catholic funeral)--I could go on an on.

Yet the only Person I've seen people bow to and pray to and honor and praise and worship at a Christmas or Easter church service is our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. So again, you are mocking good Christians who simply want to follow the Lord.

 

[J.D.]

Okay, I'll accept your clarification. But you must know that you were very unclear in your first post. Since as far as I remember I was the only one who had mentioned giving the Gospel at Christmas and Easter, how was I to know you were not mocking me? And you were mocking, whoever your target was. Please be more clear next time.

And now that brings me to your accusation that celebrating a Christmas or Easter service in the church is idolatry. Frankly, I think that is ridiculous. I have seen pure idolatry literally hundreds of times in many places: children bowing and praying to a roadside jizo (child Buddha), a Shinto ceremony dedicating a house, people bowing to the "Great Buddha" (60 feet tall) in Kamakura near where we used to live in Yokohama, people worshipping the dead person at funerals (even a Japanese Catholic funeral)--I could go on an on.

Yet the only Person I've seen people bow to and pray to and honor and praise and worship at a Christmas or Easter church service is our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. So again, you are mocking good Christians who simply want to follow the Lord.

Will, I didn't use the word idolatry. If Easter and Christmas (I used the modern words - feel better?) is not in the Bible, why do "good" Christians observe it? And can you tell me how Easter and Christmas do not violate the scripture I quoted?

 

[John of Japan]

Will, I didn't use the word idolatry. If Easter and Christmas (I used the modern words - feel better?) is not in the Bible, why do "good" Christians observe it? And can you tell me how Easter and Christmas do not violate the scripture I quoted?

The Scripture you used was talking about idolatry. It talked about serving other gods, and that is idolatry. Do you deny that?

And sure I can tell you how Easter and Christmas (which you celebrate) do not violate the scripture you quoted. It's very simple. The celebration of these days do not include the woship (bowing down and serving) of other gods. Until you can prove that Christians somehow worship idols in their Christmas and Easter services, you have no case--none whatsoever.

And if Sunday School and training union and celebrating birthdays and having a piano in the service are not in the Bible, why do good Christians observe them? Your logic is the typical, "Brother, it ain't in the Bible so it's a sin."

The Bible does not command us not to celebrate Christ's birth and resurrection. But it does command us to get the Gospel to every creature and glorify Christ. So I will do so and consider it a good, even a glorious thing. All glory to Jesus!

 

[J.D.]

The Scripture you used was talking about idolatry. It talked about serving other gods, and that is idolatry. Do you deny that?

And sure I can tell you how Easter and Christmas (which you celebrate) do not violate the scripture you quoted. It's very simple. The celebration of these days do not include the woship (bowing down and serving) of other gods. Until you can prove that Christians somehow worship idols in their Christmas and Easter services, you have no case--none whatsoever.

And if Sunday School and training union and celebrating birthdays and having a piano in the service are not in the Bible, why do good Christians observe them? Your logic is the typical, "Brother, it ain't in the Bible so it's a sin."

The Bible does not command us not to celebrate Christ's birth and resurrection. But it does command us to get the Gospel to every creature and glorify Christ. So I will do so and consider it a good, even a glorious thing. All glory to Jesus!

The thread I just started on the regulative principle would be a good place to continue this debate. See you there?

 

[John of Japan]

The thread I just started on the regulative principle would be a good place to continue this debate. See you there?

I'll check it out, but I can't guaranatee much participation right away since it is Friday night here, and of course the weekend is my busiest time. I'll be frank, I don't know what you mean by "the regulative principle," so perhaps I'll learn something.

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

Grace robbery ought to be a crime .

 

[EdSutton]

Grace robbery ought to be a crime .

One of the more perceptive comments I've seen on the BB on two years! :thumbs:

In fact, it is a 'crime'.

4 And this occurred because of false brethren secretly brought in (who came in by stealth to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage), 5 to whom we did not yield submission even for an hour, that the truth of the gospel might continue with you. (Gal. 2:4-5 - NKJV)

Ed

 

[sag38]

Wow, that's good Ed. Your Biblical whit is right on 99% of the time.

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

Amen and amen.

Last time I preached through Galatians that is the passage that REALLY stuck out and changed A LOT in my own life.

I no longer submit to the grace robbers.

 

[sag38]

"Grace Robbers" That will preach. It's the modern equivalent of pharisee.

 

[John of Japan]

Grace robbery ought to be a crime .

Great turn of phrase, Roger!

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

"Grace Robbers" That will preach. It's the modern equivalent of pharisee.

I think I got that phrase from something I read along the way so it may not be mine

 

[John of Japan]

I think I got that phrase from something I read along the way so it may not be mine

Aw, go ahead, take credit! :thumbs:

 

[JerryL]

These traditions of man have become so very important to all the churches, not just the originator of Easter, and Christmas, the Catholic church.

The churches that came out of the Mother church tried their best to separate from her, but her influence, and the world, over the years is just too much.

Did the Baptist in their beginning believe in Easter and Christmas? I don't think so. They didn't go along with the world.

Who here can find Easter, Lent, and Good Friday in the Bible? God in the beginning tells what a day and night is, and three days in the earth tells us man is wrong again. Friday from 6PM to Saturday 6PM (1st day) to Sunday 6PM (2nd day) to Monday 6PM (3rd day) just will not cut the mustard as to when Jesus Christ arose.

As to Easter, why in the world do we wish to be associated with the Babylonians, Phoenicians, and the Chaldeans who thousands of years before Jesus Christ had the Holy Days of their Spring festivals to praise and honor the goddess Ishtar? Ishtar, or Astarte, was their goddess of spring and rebirth. This is the way "rabbits" have entered into our churches.

The Catholic church wanted more members, and they got them when they agreed to bring their pagan gods to sit beside Our God, and said we will honor the dates you worship your god's, thus began Easter and Christmas for the world.

Can we find in His Word what so many have come to believe worthy of worshiping and honoring in our churches? Have we not turned to man to have two special Holy Days to worship as we please instead with the cup remember me as oft as your will?

If you go by KJV(which I don't) you can find Easter
Act 12:4 And when he had apprehended him, he put him in prison, and delivered him to four quaternions of soldiers to keep him; intending after Easter to bring him forth to the people.

 

[sag38]

Wow JerryL I could think of all kinds of sarcastic remarks. But, I think your quote says enough.

 

[JerryL]

Wow JerryL I could think of all kinds of sarcastic remarks. But, I think your quote says enough.

No sarcasm what so ever. He said you can't find Easter in the Bible. I showed where you could in the KJV. I told that I didn't use the KJV, so that nobody would accuse me of being KJVO. I think you are reading wrong into my post.

 

[ituttut]

OK I'm trying to see both sides of this issue.

Personally I commemorate the birth of Christ around the Christmas season after all angels and the heavenly host celebrated His first birthay

Hello again HankD, and happy to be back "computin".

We just approach this subject from different perspectives of what we know. I endeavor to see what the Bible has to say about things such as this. No doubt the angels and the heavenly host celebrated Jesus' birthday. The problem, according to the Bible, is that the shepherds were in the field watching over their sheep by night. At this time the shepherds did not have their sheep out in the wintertime. They housed them, and fed them in a Manger, in the winter time. Jesus was born in a manger, and the reason he was is because the manger was not in use. The sheep were out feeding in the fields, and not feeding from the manger. Sheep eat grass in the fields in spring, summer, and fall months, and winter they ate hay or other grain from a manger. There are other reasons we know December is out of the question, and all biblical information points to Jesus being born the latter parts of September, or early October. What would the sheep be feeding on in the winter? In the morning they would be eating GRASS in the fields, and there is no GRASS to eat in the winter.

But, I try to avoid as much as possible the commercial side of the holiday season.

I personally go along with the commercial part of Christmas, but not of the spirit taking Christmas into the church, or honoring this date as the birth of our Lord Jesus Christ. I do not fault or judge you in what you do as you believe differently than I, and are unaware of certain things. I only endeavor to inform of what the Bible says, and not what man says is truth.

As to the days of the week, do we print "Prayer Meeting - Wednesday" in our calendar or advertise the same on our outside Bulletin Board?

We use the vernacular of the day as the days are how we identify a day in the week. Also the Christian does not go to the Temple, or the church on the Sabbath. If we did we would do as Israel did when God recognized them as His people. We would number our days. But we are not Israel today. I notice we Christians most often refer to Sunday as the first day of the week, and as we are not Israel we continue to use what has been accepted by we Gentiles and the names of the week. We render unto Caesar (the worldly things), and to God the things that are God's.

This is the reason I go along with the commercial part of Christmas, but avoid worshiping on this day, in church or out, His Birthday on December 25. I believe what I find in the Bible, and not what man wishes me to think. Again. unto Caesar what he gives us, and that is a "commercial and worldly Christmas."

Doesn't this honor the false god Woden that we have a prayer meeting on Woden's Day even though we aren't fully aware of the historic facts behind the naming of the days?

Perhaps it would be good to question the founding fathers of the Baptist church as to the beginning of Wednesday to be the chosen for "prayer meeting".

It Is best to know certain facts and one is the French Christians do not connect "Woden" to Wednesday, but the "planet Mercury". Pagan also, to be sure, and the heathen had names of the week, all from Pagan origins, before Christianity was known. Christianity accepted these names. Why would we today try to connect what was accepted by them to Christmas, and Easter that did not even exist?

The Apostles knew when Jesus was born. If they had set aside the birthday of Jesus, or an Easter Sunday, why didn't they tell us about this? Circa 300 years later a man brought these pagan Holidays into the church. I believe the Bible and not Constantine.

Neither the "circumcised" church in Jerusalem, nor the "uncircumcised churches" of the Gentiles had any such Holy Days. The Apostles knew when Jesus was born, and they make no mention of this fact for evidently the Holy Spirit did not wish for it to be remembered as He knows the heart of man. What would man do? Begin to worship a day, along with their Lord Jesus Christ. God is no longer of this world, for the Son sits beside His Father in heaven. Do we not do our level best trying to "bring Jesus down from heaven" to worship, and remember Him in a worldly manner. Romans 10:6, "But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above).

Our worship and remembering him is "Spiritual" which He plainly asks us to do as we "drink the wine (blood) from the cup". He is no longer of this earth for He is alive today in heaven awaiting His Father to "put all things beneath His feet".

Today the "Jew" (by blood) has been blinded, along with many others in the world, but you and I have been chosen, however we are not in the same part of the Body of Christ? We will be in His Kingdom, whether of earth, or of the heavenlies.

To be consistent, don't we have an obligation to learn these things as well?

This is, and was known to me, but these names are "heathen" generated before Christianity as explained above. We should not be trying to say we believed as the pagans did before Christianity, and continue to do so after Christianity was founded.

The real answer is to let each decide where to draw the line without passing judgement on what I believe are non-issue decisions (apart from the fact that some of these decisions are offensive to other Christians).

Perhaps you are not reading (thinking this is just ituttut talking) or you are not comprehending my posts. Nowhere have I judged you, but as pointed out presenting scripture to you to accept or deny. Your choice to believe in whom you believe, and why?

We can't please everyone: James 3:2 For in many things we offend all ...

You speak to the tongue of man here. If you will look again, all that I offer is the Word of God. We accept His Word, or we reject and believe as man.

So, maybe it's best in these cases just to not mention them, which seems to be alluded to in the second half of this verse:
...If any man offend not in word, the same is a perfect man, and able also to bridle the whole body.

Do you claim to be perfect? His Word is, and we are to spread it unabashedly.
Acts 13:45-49, "But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with envy, and spake against those things which were spoken by Paul, contradicting and blaspheming. 46. Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles. 47. For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying, I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth. 48. And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed. 49. And the word of the Lord was published throughout all the region." I am so glad the two men, and them only, were sent to give light to the Gentiles.

Enveloped with me HankD in…….

 

[ituttut]

Sorry ituttut, I guess I forgot to get back to you.

I completely agree with what I bolded in your quote above (though it was to Hank, your post to me is similar). Imo, Jesus would not like his birthday misrepresented. From my viewpoint, the churches here are pretty good about educating people that Dec 25th is incorrect, and explaining the true meaning of Easter. Even my non-christian friends are aware of this. Blessings to you :saint:

Thanks for the post Joe. I'm happy others have an understanding in this matter.

What I do not understand, (many do believe December 25 is the day Jesus was born), is why those that are more knowledgeable about such matters, continue to honor this day as Jesus' birthday, when they know it is a farce? Abrupt and critical words perhaps, but we know the truth, and we are to tell it. If we don't stand, can we depend on those that continue to believe (or not believe), preach, and observe this particular day chosen by man?

Do I judge? Some may think so, but if one looks closely to what I say, they will find they are not my words.

 

[JerryL]

Thanks for the post Joe. I'm happy others have an understanding in this matter.

What I do not understand, (many do believe December 25 is the day Jesus was born), is why those that are more knowledgeable about such matters, continue to honor this day as Jesus' birthday, when they know it is a farce? Abrupt and critical words perhaps, but we know the truth, and we are to tell it. If we don't stand, can we depend on those that continue to believe (or not believe), preach, and observe this particular day chosen by man?

Do I judge? Some may think so, but if one looks closely to what I say, they will find they are not my words.

I also don't think He was born in December(winter), but closer to when we celebrate Easter(spring). I don't let myself get too caught up in this though. Like the posters' quote early on, "If the WORLD wants to set aside a day to honor my Lord, I'll celebrate it." Spring is a time of renewal and newness, It seems like a good time to honor my King, even if it happens at the same time as that fertility bunny rabbit god is being honored. There are more lost in Church at Easter than any other time of the year, maybe some of them will get a spark of life fed to them at that time that leads to Salvation. Why would we want to wreck that?