Why God forbid the Jews to eat Pork.

[TorahKeeper]

Circumcision is not rabbinnic law, it was spoken to Abraham by God Himself..

And God said unto Abraham, Thou shalt keep my covenant therefore, thou, and thy seed after thee in their generations This [is] my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised. Genesis 17:9-10.

And if ye [be] Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise. Gal 3:29

Obedience does not provide salvation... Obedience produces blessings....

Faith produces Salvation.....

Sounds like alot of resistence to the very words of God Himself.

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by TorahKeeper:
Circumcision is not rabbinnic law, it was spoken to Abraham by God Himself..

Read your bible. All the rabbinnic laws were spoken directly by God himself: Yahweh spoke to Moses and Aaron and said to them... (Lev 11)

In the NT, circumsision was clearly deemed by Peter and Paul as not being necessary for a believer.

Sounds like alot of resistence to the very words of God Himself.

Sounds like the desire or one man on this board to pick and choose what parts of scripture he thinks everyone should observe. Look dude, if you want to observe rabbinnic law, that is within your scripturally guaranteed right of religious liberty. However, it is unscriptural for you to impose that same observance on others as mandatory. That is nothing short of false doctrine, not unlike the tactic of the KJVOists.

 

[StefanM]

Johnv,

Rabbinic laws would be the "Oral Law" not recorded in scripture (now recorded in the Mishnah, Talmud, etc). Priests and Rabbis are not synonymous terms.

The Mosaic Law does not consist of rabbinic laws/regulations. Those were in addition to the Mosaic Law.

Otherwise, I'm right with you

.

 

[TorahKeeper]

The very mouth of God spoke these laws that so many want to eliminate, I cannot for the life of me understand wht God's people would want to eliminate anything He said.

 

[StefanM]

<--- Is not a Jew.

As a Gentile, I keep these suggestions:

Acts 15:20, "But we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood."

 

[StefanM]

I'm not saying that the Law is now currently in force for the Jewish people, but I see nowhere in scripture that EVER requires Gentiles to follow Mosaic Law.

 

[TorahKeeper]

But we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood." For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

Why did you leave out verse 21???

This is whats called the heart of the law. pollution of idols means blending in paganism, fornication is self explanitory and things strangled and from blood is kosher.

Paul was saying teach them the simple part 1st and they will learn the deeper things in time as they learn Moses (aka TORAH) every SABBATH.

Sounds like Paul wanted the people to be obedient to the Law

 

[StefanM]

What about 15:24, then 15:29?

 

[TorahKeeper]

Paul was dealing with those who were teaching that obedience produced salvation. He was against the law, he was against thei false teaching. If you are advocating that Paul was telling us to eliminate the law, then he contradicted himself and his writings need to be torn out of the bible.

 

[StefanM]

Then why did Paul not say just that?

 

[TorahKeeper]

If you read the entire chapter you will see he did say it.

 

[TorahKeeper]

Paul was dealing with those who were teaching that obedience produced salvation. He was against the law, he was against thei false teaching. If you are advocating that Paul was telling us to eliminate the law, then he contradicted himself and his writings need to be torn out of the bible.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I need to correct a statement, I should have posted Paul was NOT against the law.

I apologize for the typing error.

 

[StefanM]

I'll just agree to disagree. We both are seeing our own conclusions in the same text.

 

[TorahKeeper]

And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, [and said], Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved. vs 1

There is the teaching that Paul was refuting

 

[Petrel]

Except part of his method of refuting it was to tell Titus not to be circumcised, which according to your point of view is a sin. That could only be if circumcision itself was no longer commanded, but irrelevant.

Here's another:

I Corinthians 7:18-19

Was a man already circumcised when he was called? He should not become uncircumcised. Was a man uncircumcised when he was called? He should not be circumcised. Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing. Keeping God's commands is what counts.

Paul outright tells people to disobey God's Law right there according to your view. Notice that Paul says that keeping God's commands it what is important, but he says that we should not be circumcised if we are not circumcised at the time of salvation. Clearly then mandatory circumcision for all male believers is not part of God's commands to us now.

 

[TorahKeeper]

Paul was battling a teaching that in addition to Yeshua that one had to be circumcised. He was trying to teach that faith and faith alone produces salvation.

Paul was battling a teaching not the act that God Himself commanded.

 

[Petrel]

Yes, and he said that we do not have to be circumcised.

Come on, drop the other shoe.

 

[TorahKeeper]

I am not dropping a commandment spoken by the mouth of God, why would you want to? Why would you encourage others to disobey the very words spoken by God Himself?

 

[StefanM]

Again. . .

PAUL is discouraging circumcision.

"Was a man already circumcised when he was called? He should not become uncircumcised. Was a man uncircumcised when he was called? He should not be circumcised. Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing. Keeping God's commands is what counts."

1000th post for me!

 

[Petrel]

Well, Paul apparently did, so I'm in good company.