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Why is Calvinism surging?
- Thread starter Martin
- Start date
Lou Martuneac
New Member
Heaven, help us!Martin said:
There is the appearance of and some noted surging partially because of the chat rooms and blogs.
Doctrines of Grace is a new label the Calvinists are using to steer away from the "Calvinism" label. That is fine, but always remember that Irresistible Grace is the type of grace that is taught in Calvinism.
LM
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Lou Martuneac said:
==Possible, but I think it is much more than that. I think the seminaries (etc) are playing a larger role in the "surge".
Lou Martuneac said:
==Let's keep in mind the note in the OP, this thread is not about the positions or doctrine of Calvinism. This thread is about the causes of the surge of Calvinism.
Dr. L.T. Ketchum
New Member
Martin said:
This article was in the Friday Church News from David Cloud
http://wayoflife.worthyofpraise.org/fridaynews/pdf/2007/20071228.pdf
Calvinism on the Rise in the Southern Baptist Convention
A new study shows that Calvinism is on the rise in the Southern Baptist Convention and is especially prominent among recent seminary graduates. Ed Stetzer, director of LifeWay Research, says that nearly 30% of recent graduates now serving as pastors are Calvinists (“Calvinism on the Rise,” Christian Post, Nov. 29, 2007). Roughly 10% of SBC pastors at large define themselves as Calvinists, but that includes only those who hold to all five points of TULIP theology and not those who hold to sovereign or unconditional election but not necessarily to all other points of Calvinism. LifeWay Research limits their surveys to a narrow definition of Calvinism, and I suspect it might not want to report the true influence of Calvinism in the convention. A chief culprit in the growth of Calvinism is literature. The writings of men such as John Piper and John MacArthur are popular among fundamentalists. The writings of the Puritans and of Charles Spurgeon, who, by his own testimony, was deeply influenced by the Puritans, also contribute to the growth of Calvinism. I admire a great many things about Spurgeon and the Puritans, and about many modern-day Calvinists, as well, but I vehemently disagree with Reformed theology regardless of who teaches it and how much I might agree with them on other matters. I must make an issue of it, because they make an issue of it! I reject the popular Quick Prayerism doctrine just as vehemently, and I have no doubt that the unscripturalness of this misguided evangelistic program and the doctrinal shallowness of many independent Baptist churches and schools has caused some to fall into the arms of Calvinism and its more intellectual approach. Having studied the Bible earnestly and prayerfully for 34 years and having studied both sides of this issue, I am convinced that neither Calvinism nor Quick Prayerism is Scriptural. I have no ill will toward those who differ, and I thank the Lord for every good thing in them; but here I must stand, and I believe it is an issue worth standing for.
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Lou Martuneac
New Member
Dr. Ketchum:Dr. L.T. Ketchum said:
Good to cross paths again. Thanks for posting this informative note.
Lou
Lou Martuneac
New Member
Yes, but when labels are used that are unfamiliar or new to some I think it is important to define and/or explain ther usage.Martin said:
LM
reformedbeliever
New Member
Lou Martuneac said:
And your definition is this? Or who does this quote belong to?
This is a great strawman. But where is the true definition of Calvinism? Lou, you are becoming quickly famous on this BB for mis-information and misrepresentation.... either that or false witness.... which is it? I find it hard to believe that you are really that ignorant of Calvinism. Are your misrepresentations intentional?
psalms109:31
Active Member
It's easier
Calvinism is an easier belief system
If i live or die no matter what I do it is because of God.
We are the way we are not because of us but because of God after the fall.
Instead of being it was the snake you created or because of God created eve. We are just the way we are because of God. It is just back to adam that it was the woman God created. We need to just put the blame on ourselves and just beg for mercy from God. We are all depraved and headed for destruction and only Jesus can save us from our selves. Who can save us from this body of death, praise be to Jesus. I do not disagree that we are they way we are after the fall because of God. God has given the world a way out through Jesus Christ and made us who believe the messengers of it.
Calvinism was hidden in group circles in the church. They waited for people to mature that can handle it before they would enter into this circle.
The little children couldn't handle it.
Then the challege came that if this was really the truth it shouldn't be in these circle but brought out to the population if it was the truth. That even the little children should be introduced to it. I remember the letter of challege, when it came out, but I can't find it any more online. It was from a man who started questioning calvinism because of it's secrecy.
Calvinism is an easier belief system
If i live or die no matter what I do it is because of God.
We are the way we are not because of us but because of God after the fall.
Instead of being it was the snake you created or because of God created eve. We are just the way we are because of God. It is just back to adam that it was the woman God created. We need to just put the blame on ourselves and just beg for mercy from God. We are all depraved and headed for destruction and only Jesus can save us from our selves. Who can save us from this body of death, praise be to Jesus. I do not disagree that we are they way we are after the fall because of God. God has given the world a way out through Jesus Christ and made us who believe the messengers of it.
Calvinism was hidden in group circles in the church. They waited for people to mature that can handle it before they would enter into this circle.
The little children couldn't handle it.
Then the challege came that if this was really the truth it shouldn't be in these circle but brought out to the population if it was the truth. That even the little children should be introduced to it. I remember the letter of challege, when it came out, but I can't find it any more online. It was from a man who started questioning calvinism because of it's secrecy.
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I answered this very Question in May of 2006 on my blog.
Friday, May 05, 2006
Ten Top Reasons Why Calvinism is Spreading in the SBC
I'm sure there will be much disagreement over the order but here they are as I see them.
10. The Tireless Efforts of the Founders Ministries and those associated with it.
9. Southern Baptists are reading more Baptist History.
8. More Willingness among SBC Pastors/Teachers to cross SBC lines to hear "dynamic preachers and teachers".
7. Proliferation of online sermons by SBC Calvinists
6. Calvinistic Web Sites and Blogging
5. Inadequate treatment by SBC Professors openly opposed
4. Unwillingness of SBC Leaders to model and promote church discipline
3. Frustration with 60% failure rate of SBC evangelistic emphasis
2. More Calvinistic Professors at SBC Seminaries
1. Anti-Calvinistic rhetoric by "leading" SBC Pastors
Number 10 - The Tireless Efforts of the Founders Ministries and those associated with it.
What can I say? Had not those seven men met in Memphis in 1983 and shared their common concerns and vision I might not even be writing this today as a Southern Baptist. The leadership that Tom Ascol and others have provided through the years since that humble beginning has been an encouragment to all of us Southern Baptists who embrace the Doctrines of Grace.
Number 9 - Southern Baptists are reading more Baptist History.
When thinking Southern Baptists look at the historic Baptist Confessions and look at the Articles of Faith of almost all Southern Baptist Churches in this country that existed before the SBC was organized in 1845, they realize they are holding in their hands evidences of a strong Calvinistic heritage.
Number 8 - More Willingness among SBC Pastors/Teachers to cross SBC lines to hear "dynamic preachers and teachers" like R. C. Sproul, John Piper, John MacArthur, Ligon Duncan, C.J. Mahaney and others. What more needs to be said?
Number 7 - Remember back when a sermon tape by an SBC Calvinist was as rare as hens' teeth and you guarded it so carefully because you didn't know if you could ever replace it or not? Not anymore. Any SBC Calvinist can post his sermons online so we can all listen and be encouraged to our hearts' content.
Number 6 - Calvinistic Web Sites and Blogging
I've learned more theology and more Baptist history since I've plugged into the internet than I ever did in seminary or during that period I call the "dark ages" between seminary graduation and the advent of the web. I've also had more fellowship and made more friends through the web than I ever thought possible.
Number 5 - Inadequate treatment by SBC Professors openly opposed to Calvinism
Some obviously must feel like they have to say something so they say things that reveal a total lack of or a woefully inadequate understanding of the position of most SBC Calvinists. It only reinforces what many of us suspected was true during our seminary days. These are dedicated men and are faithful servants, for the most part, but they are certainly not infallible.
Number 4 - Unwillingness of SBC Leaders to model and promote church discipline
I don't believe I've ever heard a SBC mega-church pastor suggest that he needed to prune his church's membership roll, and these are the guys we keep electing President of the SBC every year. We know we have a problem in SBC Churches with unregenerate and inactive church members showing up to vote at controversial business meetings. Our leadership has not adequately addressed these issues but leading SBC Calvinists have.
Number 3 - Frustration with 60% failure rate of SBC evangelistic emphasis
Southern Baptist pastors are simply tired of the same old evangelistic results regardless of whether you call it F.A.I.T.H. or CWT or EE. When you get the same old results - 60% failure rate - campaign after campaign - then it becomes apparent that something is broken.
Number 2 - More Calvinistic Professors at SBC Seminaries
May their tribe increase. I believe this is a providential thing - don't you?
Number 1 - Anti-Calvinistic rhetoric by "leading" SBC Pastors
What happens when a well known SBC personality speaks out for something or against something so controversial as Calvinism? Ears perk up all over the SBC. Questions are asked. Inquiries are made, and the end result is that more and more Southern Baptists examine the Doctrines of Grace and some are persuaded they are true.
Friday, May 05, 2006
Ten Top Reasons Why Calvinism is Spreading in the SBC
I'm sure there will be much disagreement over the order but here they are as I see them.
10. The Tireless Efforts of the Founders Ministries and those associated with it.
9. Southern Baptists are reading more Baptist History.
8. More Willingness among SBC Pastors/Teachers to cross SBC lines to hear "dynamic preachers and teachers".
7. Proliferation of online sermons by SBC Calvinists
6. Calvinistic Web Sites and Blogging
5. Inadequate treatment by SBC Professors openly opposed
4. Unwillingness of SBC Leaders to model and promote church discipline
3. Frustration with 60% failure rate of SBC evangelistic emphasis
2. More Calvinistic Professors at SBC Seminaries
1. Anti-Calvinistic rhetoric by "leading" SBC Pastors
Number 10 - The Tireless Efforts of the Founders Ministries and those associated with it.
What can I say? Had not those seven men met in Memphis in 1983 and shared their common concerns and vision I might not even be writing this today as a Southern Baptist. The leadership that Tom Ascol and others have provided through the years since that humble beginning has been an encouragment to all of us Southern Baptists who embrace the Doctrines of Grace.
Number 9 - Southern Baptists are reading more Baptist History.
When thinking Southern Baptists look at the historic Baptist Confessions and look at the Articles of Faith of almost all Southern Baptist Churches in this country that existed before the SBC was organized in 1845, they realize they are holding in their hands evidences of a strong Calvinistic heritage.
Number 8 - More Willingness among SBC Pastors/Teachers to cross SBC lines to hear "dynamic preachers and teachers" like R. C. Sproul, John Piper, John MacArthur, Ligon Duncan, C.J. Mahaney and others. What more needs to be said?
Number 7 - Remember back when a sermon tape by an SBC Calvinist was as rare as hens' teeth and you guarded it so carefully because you didn't know if you could ever replace it or not? Not anymore. Any SBC Calvinist can post his sermons online so we can all listen and be encouraged to our hearts' content.
Number 6 - Calvinistic Web Sites and Blogging
I've learned more theology and more Baptist history since I've plugged into the internet than I ever did in seminary or during that period I call the "dark ages" between seminary graduation and the advent of the web. I've also had more fellowship and made more friends through the web than I ever thought possible.
Number 5 - Inadequate treatment by SBC Professors openly opposed to Calvinism
Some obviously must feel like they have to say something so they say things that reveal a total lack of or a woefully inadequate understanding of the position of most SBC Calvinists. It only reinforces what many of us suspected was true during our seminary days. These are dedicated men and are faithful servants, for the most part, but they are certainly not infallible.
Number 4 - Unwillingness of SBC Leaders to model and promote church discipline
I don't believe I've ever heard a SBC mega-church pastor suggest that he needed to prune his church's membership roll, and these are the guys we keep electing President of the SBC every year. We know we have a problem in SBC Churches with unregenerate and inactive church members showing up to vote at controversial business meetings. Our leadership has not adequately addressed these issues but leading SBC Calvinists have.
Number 3 - Frustration with 60% failure rate of SBC evangelistic emphasis
Southern Baptist pastors are simply tired of the same old evangelistic results regardless of whether you call it F.A.I.T.H. or CWT or EE. When you get the same old results - 60% failure rate - campaign after campaign - then it becomes apparent that something is broken.
Number 2 - More Calvinistic Professors at SBC Seminaries
May their tribe increase. I believe this is a providential thing - don't you?
Number 1 - Anti-Calvinistic rhetoric by "leading" SBC Pastors
What happens when a well known SBC personality speaks out for something or against something so controversial as Calvinism? Ears perk up all over the SBC. Questions are asked. Inquiries are made, and the end result is that more and more Southern Baptists examine the Doctrines of Grace and some are persuaded they are true.
Jarthur001
Active Member
Hardsheller said:
Good work on that list. These 10 should be considered factors if not the top factors.
Brother Bob
New Member
10 percent of SBC pastors call themselves 5-point Calvinists By Libby Lovelace
Sep 18, 2006
http://www.bpnews.net/printerfriendly.asp?ID=23993
http://www.bpnews.net/ImageServer.asp?fname=images/IMG20069184372LO.jpg&width=180 NASHVILLE, Tenn. (BP)--While LifeWay Research found the number of Southern Baptist pastors embracing five-point Calvinism to be relatively small, it is undeniable that the conversations on Calvinism within the Southern Baptist Convention have brought renewed interest to the theological system.
Proponents of Calvinism, or Reformed theology, view it as a healthy return to early Southern Baptist heritage. Others see Calvinism as a negative trend and fear it is threatening to take over the SBC. In its inaugural survey, LifeWay Research sought to document the prevalence -– or lack thereof –- of Calvinism within the SBC.
Surveying 413 pastors, the July/August 2006 LifeWay Research survey asked Southern Baptist pastors to indicate their position concerning the following question: “Do you consider yourself a five-point Calvinist?”
LifeWay Research found that 10 percent of Southern Baptist pastors consider themselves five-point Calvinists. That number, while still relatively small compared to the 85 percent who do not consider themselves five-point Calvinists, still is a large enough group to deserve attention.
Who said they are growing or surging. Is it just wishful thinking or what????
BBob,
Brother Bob
New Member
Higer than 10 percent you mean??? How much higher??StefanM said:
BBob,
I found the research where that the graduates of seminaries recently have indeed grown to around 29 percent, even though their church membership is much smaller and their baptism rate is much smaller. Sound like us for we would fit into the much smaller groups.
BBob,
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Brother Bob
New Member
StefanM said:
Yes it is, I do not see it continuing though but could be wrong, for the simple fact that the Mega Churches are after the tithes more than anything. IMO
BBob,
Webdog Response!!Date Needed? Data Provided?
Webdog et al!
It is always good to hear from you my dear brother!
I would take exception with what you have said. This is a "true statement and worthy of all acceptation, . . . " Calvinism is on the rise in the SBC. The Rev. Dr. Ed Stetzer of the LifeWay (SBC) Research Division has the facts and figures and data. See this web page, read his stats; or you may have to listen to the streaming audio:
http://www.lifeway.com/lwc/article_main_page/0,1703,A%253D166704%2526M%253D201042,00.html?
But JFTR (just for the record), if "Calvinism" (so called) had not been on the rise in the SBC we surely would not have had a Bible/Theology/Historical Conference sponsored by LifeWay, Southeastern Baptist Theological, and Founder's Ministries if it were not on the rise. This alone would be proof enough for most.
No offense intended to anyone who reads my post here on the BB.
FYI!
sdg!
rd
webdog said:
Webdog et al!
It is always good to hear from you my dear brother!
I would take exception with what you have said. This is a "true statement and worthy of all acceptation, . . . " Calvinism is on the rise in the SBC. The Rev. Dr. Ed Stetzer of the LifeWay (SBC) Research Division has the facts and figures and data. See this web page, read his stats; or you may have to listen to the streaming audio:
http://www.lifeway.com/lwc/article_main_page/0,1703,A%253D166704%2526M%253D201042,00.html?
But JFTR (just for the record), if "Calvinism" (so called) had not been on the rise in the SBC we surely would not have had a Bible/Theology/Historical Conference sponsored by LifeWay, Southeastern Baptist Theological, and Founder's Ministries if it were not on the rise. This alone would be proof enough for most.
No offense intended to anyone who reads my post here on the BB.
FYI!
sdg!
rd
Jarthur001
Active Member
Brother Bob said:
By Libby Lovelace
Sep 18, 2006
http://www.bpnews.net/printerfriendly.asp?ID=23993
Who said they are growing or surging. Is it just wishful thinking or what????
BBob,
Who said it?
For one..the web site you just posted.
http://www.bpnews.net/BPFirstPerson.asp?ID=27050
Jarthur001
Active Member
Brother Bob said:
For the most part mega churches are non_calvinist.
continuing.....
60 percent of graduates of one of our seminaries identify themselves as five-point Calvinists.
These guys will lead in the churches of tomorrow.