Why is it always one sided?

[Phillipians121]

Would you rather go back to the days before the civil rights movement? Are you so insecure in your life that you feel threatened by a person with darker skin celebrating being granted the same rights you yourself celebrate?

By all means no then I wouldn't be able to hang around my black friends and clients. I don't know how many times you need to hear I am not racist. See what I mean if a black person gave their insights to the white community the would NEVER be called a racisit at least not to the public. They probably would be told they were RIGHT!

I have no time to deal with ignorance. OH by the way are you homophobic?

 

[Magnetic Poles]

I don't know how many times you need to hear I am not racist.

I'm not. NO, I'm not. Really. Don't mind what I say. I'm really not. :laugh:

I have no time to deal with ignorance.

Then what an internal conflict you must have!

 

[Phillipians121]

I can just imagine how many people who are sitting back right now saying "I am glad she is saying the truth and not me" I hear what I am saying from many white people one on one but never in a group or else they will get labled.

To bad people are so superficial and don't say what they really think...as long as they are not hurting anyones feelings. I was even able to have this discussion with a black friend/client of mine. He didn't agree with everything, but we were able to discuss it intellectual without putting each other down (he is a christian too) and we are still friends. He actually thought it was admirable of me to be honest with my beliefs or insights. He does see the problems with his race in America, but keep bringing up the VICTIM card on why they do what they do.

 

[Gershom]

My main point was that MOST blacks in America have a VICTIM mentality

Do you know most blacks? And if it's true (that most blacks have a "victim mentality), I wonder why.

 

[Magnetic Poles]

I can just imagine how many people who are sitting back right now saying "I am glad she is saying the truth and not me" I hear what I am saying from many white people one on one but never in a group or else they will get labled.

One on one at the Klan rally, I guess?

And the words just keep coming, and the hole gets deeper and deeper.

 

[menageriekeeper]

I asked someone one time when we had this debate...what is your favorite breed of dog. In which he replied Germand Shepherds. I asked WHY? and he went on to give me many characteristic traits of the German Shepherd...of which many were right. Of course there are your exceptions to everything...not all German Shepherds act the way he discribed. Which is based on genetics and upbringing. Same goes for all kinds of races and animals. But there seems to be an overwhelming majority factor when it comes to people and animals.

To study these or to choose base on this fact doesn't make one predjusious just makes one absurbant.

My main point was that MOST blacks in America have a VICTIM mentality (as mentioned by Bill Cosby, John Whorter, Ken Hamblin) which has been taught to them by black leaders that the white man has surpressed them and they need to fight for their rights and that the white man is always out to get them. And because of this...white are always labled racist if they offend a black (see you have been doing that to me now) but when a black person offends a white they are not labeled as such.

Wait a minute, you've confused me. Is your point that black people are more violent because of their genetics or that genetics is the reason they have a victim mentality?

Do you even know what you are saying, or are you just on a rant?

 

[Gershom]

See what I mean if a black person gave their insights to the white community the would NEVER be called a racisit

Would it be better if we said you seem to have a real disdain for black folks in general? That's how your posts come across.

 

[Phillipians121]

FROM A BLACK AUTHOR ON THE SUBJECT of Victimization taught to them from their BLACK leaders...Maybe you will believe him?

I'm Not A Victim, I'm A Man

(A New Visions Commentary published April 1996 by Project 21, a project of The National Center for Public Policy Research. New Visions Commentaries are the opinion of their author and not necessary those of Project 21.)

I'm not a [--] victim, so please quit treating me like one. I'm tired of your willingness to accept my failures without encouraging me to get back up. I'm tired of your willingness to accept the demasculization of the black male. I'm tired of your willingness to accept less than what I'm capable of. In short, I'm tired of what is currently recognized as African-American leadership.

I've come to the harsh realization that black people have been pimped. Just like a woman of ill-repute, black people been exploited in every way imaginable, yet our leaders still expect us to keep coming back for more of the same treatment. Even worse, blacks who do become part of the free market and start to enjoy the priviledges of being an American are either ridiculed or ignored by their leaders.

This poses quite a delimma. Civil rights leaders have limited black society to two choices: Either adopt the victim mentality, wait for the handouts and be praised -- or accept responsibilities like a man and risk being labeled an "Uncle Tom." Personally I was fortunate to have a father who taught me discipline so I chose to be a man. Being a man means taking control of your situation and leaving the handouts for those who really need them. After years of being ostracized because of their reluctance to subscribe to the victim mentality, conservative blacks have been continuously confronted by the philosophically of ignorance. It stands to reason that if current African-American leaders are upset because black conservatives use intellect and integrity to make the best of a situation, then the leaders need to take a long hard look in the mirror as to who are the real "Uncle Toms."

If promoting and dwelling in victimhood is the solution to our prosperity, why do we continue to suffer? I'm sure that you are as aware as I am that as long as we've used this excuse our situation has worsened and so has the level of self-hatred among our people. These negative consequences may not be the intent of our leaders, but the result is the same no matter their motives. The time is now for African-Americans to think for ourselves. The time is now for our leaders to start listening to us and stop preaching to us. After all, we are the ones who know what's wrong with our communities. Our world is changing and so are our political opinions. If we are to be a legitimate force to be dealt with, we have to disassociate ourselves from the slave mentality and embrace the spirit of the American Constitution.

The truth is slavery was a [--]awful experience and we should remember our people who were oppressed by it. The fact is today we are free. We are free to be victims just as well as we are free to be self-supporting individuals. Today, unlike our ancestors, we do have a choice. It's time for us to tell our leaders that. If they don't listen, then it's time to elect new ones.

http://www.nationalcenter.org/Man.html

 

[menageriekeeper]

There is a vast difference in subject between A) are the programs developed to encourage equality between the races now hurting rather than helping and B) why should black people be given their own(black only) celebrations and organizations.

Perhaps you should better specify which subject you wish to debate and stick with it.

 

[Filmproducer]

Thank you MP and menagerie keeper for your posts.

I hate these kinds of threads, they are the same. Black people this, black people that. Let me ask you this Philipians121 can you define black culture for me? Can you please point out characteristics in black culture that are not also present in white culture? People like you claim that black people have a victimization mentality, yet when things, such as the “millions more march”, happen the black people organizing and/or attending them are promoting racism. Which is it?” Do black people claim no responsibility for their community, or are they racist for only pointing out the problems in their community and working to solve them?

You keep on with all this nonsense about black African men, of which, unlike you, I did not need a movie to inform me of the problems, yet you have not succinctly linked it to racism in America. BTW conflict diamonds have been an issue for many years and many people knew about them before Blood Diamond was even in pre-production. You mentioned the black rappers here buying diamonds, but you obviously did not do all of your homework. (Tsk Tsk) Conflict diamonds are illegal. The diamonds legally bought in most of the world undergo “Kimberly Process Certification Scheme”. Then in the US you have the Clean Diamond Trade Act of 2003 that ensures the success of the KPCS in the US. Surely you are not implying that black rappers buy their diamonds illegally, right? You keep whining about all the problems in Africa, as if it only has to do with black Africans. Did you even once stop to consider that fact that before European countries began colonizing Africa it was relatively conflict free. Consider this Africa before colonization was not neatly divided into countries with perceptible borders. Africans lived in nomadic tribes. When the Europeans decided to divide the continent into separate colonies they tended to not take into account the different tribes they were separating. The root cause of much of the African violence today stems from tribal violence. Take the genocide in Rwanda, for example, between the Tutsis and Hutus. What about Nigeria? Oh that’s the Ibo, Yoruba, and Hausa tribes. The list goes on and on. It is not as simple as you seem to make it. Years of struggle, discrimination, and violence at the hands of not only the “whites”, but also other African tribes play a huge role in these conflicts. Let’s not forget POVERTY and DISEASE. Don’t you think this is also plays a role in the general struggles and problems in Africa? Then there is religion. Again a major source of power struggles in Africa.

BTW stop insulting the intelligence of black authors, and black people in general, by saying they are agreeing with you. You do not even come close to understanding them or their viewpoint. Trust me they do NOT define the black culture as you. They admit to problems in the black community and address solutions to them, but they do NOT define as narrowmindly as you have done.

 

[Filmproducer]

By all means no then I wouldn't be able to hang around my black friends and clients. I don't know how many times you need to hear I am not racist. See what I mean if a black person gave their insights to the white community the would NEVER be called a racisit at least not to the public. They probably would be told they were RIGHT!

I have no time to deal with ignorance. OH by the way are you homophobic?

How quickly people forget. Remember Rev. Jesse Jackson and Kanye West after Hurricane Katrina? They were blasted in the media and just about everywhere else, including the black community, for their comments. Oh, then there is Farrahkan. Just about any time he opens his mouth people point out the racism it spews forth.

I find it somewhat comical that people have to refer back to "their black friends" in order to justify their "non-racism".

 

[Phillipians121]

So is anyone going to call the above author of the article a RACIST? of course not...why because he is black therefore he can't be a racist against his own people. Yet he says the same things I have said. Yet I have been labled a racist. http://www.nationalcenter.org/Man.html

Thanks for proving my point people...end of discussion!!!

 

[menageriekeeper]

Good grief! You never had a coherent point to prove so don't go thanking us!

 

[Filmproducer]

So is anyone going to call the above author of the article a RACIST? of course not...why because he is black therefore he can't be a racist against his own people. Yet he says the same things I have said. Yet I have been labled a racist. http://www.nationalcenter.org/Man.html

Thanks for proving my point people...end of discussion!!!

Oh please, it is a commentary on his experiences. He doesn't try to link it to all black people's experiences. He certainly has not proven any of your incoherent points.

Again, what is black culture? How do African Americans all claim this "victim mentality"? What does racism in America have to with Africa?

 

[Phillipians121]

CORRECTION

Bill Cosby, Ken Hamblin and JOHN MCWHORTER...I said John Whorter

 

[Filmproducer]

CORRECTION

Bill Cosby, Ken Hamblin and JOHN MCWHORTER...I said John Whorter

Here are some black authors for you to look up. Natasha Tarpley, a Harvard graduate and black author, has a lot of wonderful essays on "black culture" and the "black experience in America". I encourage you to read some of her work. Her essay, "Testimony", gives a very succinct example of what it means to be black in America.

Cornel West, is another example of someone who can give a succinct definition of what it means to be black in America.

Obama's book will surely give you insight into what it means to be black in America, and it is not "pity me I am a victim". Unless, of course, you consider it a victim of one's own bad choices.

I can give you several more authors, such as Kwame Appiah, James Baldwin, Henry Louis Gates, or Harriet Brent Jacobs, if your interested. I mean, seriously, how many black authors have you read? I mean you are qualifying a culture of approximately 38 million people, based on your limited knowledge, of what, 20-100 people at best?

There is also Alan Keys, Justice Clarence Thomas, and Colin Powell. All of whom are black conservatives and looked up to in the black community. Then there is Larry Elders. (at least I think it is Larry, I can't remember now for the life of me). Anyway, back to my point, none of these men would claim that black people are inherently "this or that". As far as the "victim" mentality they would argue that black leaders, like Jackson and Sharpton, like to champion the cause of black vicitimization, and that that has hurt the black community. Notice I did not say that they believe all black people are set in this mindset, nor even the majority of them. Hmmm...Kind of sounds like the author you posted. What is racist about that?

[edited Mp to you in regards to the article posted-don't know what I was thinking]

 

[av1611jim]

"Much of the social history of the Western world over the past three decades has involved replacing what worked with what sounded good. In area after area - crime, education, housing, race relations - the situation has gotten worse after the bright new theories were put into operation. The amazing thing is that this history of failure and disaster has neither discouraged the social engineers nor discredited them. " Thomas Sowell

This is the legacy of Civil Rights Act. And as to the OP: the disparity between what is real and what is imagined is just as much a result of the CRA. The white man is racist if he speaks the truth. But dare any of you call Thomas Sowell a racist?

There is no such thing as equality. Not in colors of skin, heredity, genes, social class, opportuniy, labor, employment, education nor any other area in life. And there never will be nor can be equality. Equality is a pipe dream. And it is part and parcel of the Communists philosophy.

Thems the facts ma'am.

 

[Filmproducer]

"Much of the social history of the Western world over the past three decades has involved replacing what worked with what sounded good. In area after area - crime, education, housing, race relations - the situation has gotten worse after the bright new theories were put into operation. The amazing thing is that this history of failure and disaster has neither discouraged the social engineers nor discredited them. " Thomas Sowell

This is the legacy of Civil Rights Act. And as to the OP: the disparity between what is real and what is imagined is just as much a result of the CRA. The white man is racist if he speaks the truth. But dare any of you call Thomas Sowell a racist?

There is no such thing as equality. Not in colors of skin, heredity, genes, social class, opportuniy, labor, employment, education nor any other area in life. And there never will be nor can be equality. Equality is a pipe dream. And it is part and parcel of the Communists philosophy.

Thems the facts ma'am.

What facts? Neither you, nor Phillipians121, have posted any facts. There has been a lot speculation and opinions, but not facts.

Enlighten me, give me some facts and back them up with numbers. Impress me with your vast knowledge of race relations and/or problems in the black community. While your at it define "black culture" for me, because no matter how many times I ask Phillipians121 won't.

Equality is not a pipedream, nor is it part and parcel of the "communist" philosophy. Unless of course you consider the founding fathers communist. They are, after all, the authors of the constitution.

 

[Phillipians121]

As far as the "victim" mentality they would argue that black leaders, like Jackson and Sharpton, like to champion the cause of black vicitimization, and that that has hurt the black community. Notice I did not say that they believe all black people are set in this mindset, nor even the majority of them. Hmmm

Yes I agree these are just a few that preach this victim message. But I disagree that only a MINORITY believe they are victims. When in reality it is a majority. My black friends are of UPPERCLASS and they believe in the victim mentality, that if their ancestors had not been in slavery they (as a whole) wouldn't have all the problems they have now.

If upperclass blacks believe this which I know many do, as I use to listen on the radio Ken Hamblins broadcast, in which he often pointed this out than the majority who are not upper or middle class certainly DO. So that would make it a MAJORITY whether you admit it or not!

Do you really think Bill Cosby had a majority vote from the black community when he came out and said that his own people were only hurting themselves by their choices, and victim mentality. NO he didn't, do a google search on that.

I remember when the excuse of those who were in housing projects...were we have no means of improving ourselves since our conditions are too horrible to overcome, Oprah spent millions of dollars building new homes and projects for these people and it wasn't too many years later they were right back where they were before....WHY because they had a victim mentality. No one kept them down but themselves and the way they approached life. Now Oprah goes to Africa, feeling they will appreciate her efforts maybe more. She may be right, I sure hope so.

When I compared Africans with Black Americans I was going back to my OP when I said that blacks kill more blacks than whites ever have.

The cry yesterday and today from them is they were slaves and victims of circumstances. Abraham Lincoln and Martin Luther King freed them so there really isn't a whole lot of lenchings, killings and oppression by whites on blacks anymore. My response to such a cry and plea...is if you think your ancestors had it so bad being slaves in America what do you think of slavery in Africa even during the time your ancestors were slaves by their own people and handed over to the white man. How do you feel about all the Black on Black crime in Africa and in America....who do you BLAME then? Why is one worse than the other....when in actuality White on black crime is way far less than black on black in ALL of history.

All I say is be glad you are free...be glad you are American... be glad you have opportunities here you would never have anywhere else. And don't play the victim...play the victor and take advantage of your God given talents and abilities and make the best out of your life and stop BLAMING the white man!!!

 

[Filmproducer]

Your black upperclass friends living in this mentality means the majority of black Americans feel the same way? HOGWASH! I say unless you can provide actual statistics backing up your claims you should ammend your statements to I believe. So far you have not provided any facts only conjecture.

BTW, I am well aware of the Bill Cosby situation. Did you know that, I believe it was the NAACP chair at the convention where Cosby made the comments, said that he should have kept the issues within the community. Not that Cosby was wrong, but that the media would turn the comments and twist them for their own purposes. The media did just that. People in the black community do not disagree with the Cosby's of the world, when it comes to problems within the community, you just do not see this on the mainstream media outlets.

Once again come up with some actual facts and leave the stereotypes behind. Provide some proof. Give some actual stats or facts. IOW, put up or shut up.