Why Is There Such a Battle OVER MUSIC??

[govteach51]

Became upset with the modern praise music when one of the youth's favorite songs was borderline Jesuit Theology. In typical Baptist youth of today, they don't have a clue of why we are no longer Catholics.
BTW: The song was written by a Baptist.

 

[Zenas]

Became upset with the modern praise music when one of the youth's favorite songs was borderline Jesuit Theology. In typical Baptist youth of today, they don't have a clue of why we are no longer Catholics.
BTW: The song was written by a Baptist.

Well don't leave us hanging like that. Give us the name of the song, or preferably the lyrics.

 

[OldRegular]

Is this all about the 7/11 mantra? Seven lines repeated eleven times or vice versa.

 

[OldRegular]

Question: What about those who are musically inclined and do like the beat driven music with a bit of an edge to it (what you would consider growling)?

Not sure loud can be defined since the concept of loud is going to be different for different people.

Face it. The only reason for "contemporary" or "beat driven noise" is to appeal to the world.

 

[gb93433]

Is this all about the 7/11 mantra? Seven lines repeated eleven times or vice versa.

Have you not read Psalm 136? Maybe God wants you to listen better instead of being a critic.

 

[agedman]

Have you not read Psalm 136? Maybe God wants you to listen better instead of being a critic.

If you look to this psalm as an excuse, it is badly misapplied.

 

[glfredrick]

All music is new once. Most is reviled while new by those who prefer the older accustomed pieces.

In the mean time, we please the enemy MORE by fighting over this issue than by the music that some think is his.

 

[FR7 Baptist]

When the bass guitars start some of this NOISE, I actually feel an emotional urge to "break things"; IOW, something "primeval", that is not Christ-like, is stirred in me.

You're going to love this- I play bass guitar. One of my goals for this year is to significantly improve my bass playing, particularly my sight reading. I also sing in my church's choir. I've been singing in choirs for over eight years.

My two great musical loves are sacred choral music and hard rock. Does that make me a weirdo?

 

[govteach51]

If you look to this psalm as an excuse, it is badly misapplied.

I agree. It is poorly applied.
Look, the 7-11 music is nothing more than a modern form of monastic chants with a modern beat.. We are becoming just like Benedictine Monks, repeating the same chant over and over again, placing us into an unthinking hypnotic trance.

 

[gb93433]

If you look to this psalm as an excuse, it is badly misapplied.

Did you not notice how many times the same exact words repeated? Misapplied?

 

[gb93433]

All music is new once. Most is reviled while new by those who prefer the older accustomed pieces.

In the mean time, we please the enemy MORE by fighting over this issue than by the music that some think is his.

You are absolutely right. The difference between contemporary music and hymns is 30 years. All music was contemporary at one time. I amazes me how many do not like dancing and loud cymbals. Seems to me that I read about that is Psalms 150. Somehow there seems to be a crowd which doesn't believe in scripture when it comes to their personal preferences.

A large church cannot be grown with selfish people.

 

[nodak]

In the first place, we aren't told to create large churches.

We are told to preach the gospel. How many souls the Lord adds to the church is up to Him.

Personal preferences will of course come into play regarding music.

It is just as much all about personal preference to argue for contemporary and loudness as it is to reject it.

And it isn't wrong to form churches that appeal to affinity groups regarding music and worship style.

What IS wrong, imho, is to assume that everybody HAS to assemble under one roof, and whatever draws the biggest crowd HAS to be accepted.

Let us go back a bit to smaller, more localized neighborhood churches. The one in a neighborhood of young adults may be louder and more casual, but the town might have a traditional one for folks wanting that. Maybe a blue collar style church, a banker/dr/lawyer comfortable one, etc.

When we used to do that, before we bought into gotta-be-a-mega-church mentality, I think we actually reached more people with the gospel.

 

[glfredrick]

In the first place, we aren't told to create large churches.

We are told to preach the gospel. How many souls the Lord adds to the church is up to Him.

True to a point... Also very false. How many were Israel led out from Egypt? They were God's covenant people.

How many were saved the first day after the coming of the Holy Spirit?

How many were added in another preaching event after that?

How many were "added daily?"

God has always been somewhat about size, and the "set" of people with whom He is working to build His kingdom is the entire human race from Creation forward -- BILLIONS of people -- and God sent Christ for "all" (and this is not a theological debate about the parsing of the word all -- save that for another thread).

Simply said, God does seem to care about numbers and I find that God, who told the "human race" to "be fruitful, multiply, and fill the earth..." also told them, in a spiritual sense, to do likewise. Yes, we know about "narrow is the way ... and few that enter..." and yes, we know that there are some examples found in Scripture of persons meeting in houses that could only house a set number of people, but we also see examples of Christ preaching to 5000 men, plus women and children, and 3000 men plus women and children -- that is a LOT for one gathering where someone "preaches the gospel."

To make a "prescription" what is in Scripture a "description" and to attempt to hold the size of a congregation "small" in order to satisfy some pious need is to mis-read and mis-handle the Word of Truth that shows us large instead of small. Even as we read the end of the story in Revelation, we see numbers too large to count, hence the 10,000 times 10,000, which in the idom of the day means "too many to number."

Personal preferences will of course come into play regarding music.

It is just as much all about personal preference to argue for contemporary and loudness as it is to reject it.

And it isn't wrong to form churches that appeal to affinity groups regarding music and worship style.

Of course... But each congregation will ultimately adopt (and adapt) SOME cultural musical style. The question is whose? Is it more correct to adopt the style of Billy Sunday than it is to adopt the style of David Crowder? Says who?

What IS wrong, imho, is to assume that everybody HAS to assemble under one roof, and whatever draws the biggest crowd HAS to be accepted.

Let us go back a bit to smaller, more localized neighborhood churches. The one in a neighborhood of young adults may be louder and more casual, but the town might have a traditional one for folks wanting that. Maybe a blue collar style church, a banker/dr/lawyer comfortable one, etc.

When we used to do that, before we bought into gotta-be-a-mega-church mentality, I think we actually reached more people with the gospel.

See above. While I will never speak out AGAINST smallish neighborhood congregations, I find the biblical example something else. The church is almost always addressed to the believers in an entire CITY or REGION, not some individual house.

How can we imitate and prepare for what will transpire when we (WE) gather before the very throne of God if we have isolated ourselves into tiny powerless communities of faith that do nothing more than meet together next Sunday?

 

[gb93433]

Face it. The only reason for "contemporary" or "beat driven noise" is to appeal to the world.

What is music without a beat?

 

[exscentric]

These are not for discussion of right or wrong, but facts that caused problems in one area.

Don't know about the rest of the country but in the mid west the charismatics brought it to pass, most music from charismatics and many did not want to financially support folks they disagreed with.

Others had serious problems because young pastors came in and introduced the cont. music without speaking to their boards, others introduced it in spite of their boards disagreement with it. Others boards instituted it and when folks wanted to discuss it, they were told there would be no discussion.

For a movement that was brought into most of the churches to "grow" the church and reach young folks is decreased many churches of their older.

One church we visited had a thirty minute cont. service and all were expected to stand for the whole thing. Most older people were sitting and not involved because they did not know the songs.

Many disliked the doctrinal error they were expected to spout - yes there is error in the older stuff too.

Just as a side note for your thought, received this recently from Crosswalk news email.

"Nearly 60 Percent of Young People Leaving the Church
A recent study by the Barna Group found that almost 60 percent of Christian young people ages 15 to 29 have distanced themselves from active involvement in church, CBN News reports. David Kinnaman, president of theBarna Group, says a few reasons behind the mass exodus include young people finding churches "shallow," feeling that God is missing from services, and feeling that church is not a safe place to express doubts. He added that in many cases, churches have failed to equip young people to live "in but not of" the world. "[Young people] tell us that ... Christianity has become so hip, so watered-down, so about entertainment -- and they're looking for something of more substance," Kinnaman said. However, not all is lost: Kinnaman said this has led some young people to begin attending more traditional, conservative churches. "They want to feel that their faith matters, that they're learning the truth of Scripture," he said."

Considering a lot of elders that left over music and one must wonder why churches are growing - are they growing in number of Christians, or just growing in numbers?

Just some thoughts. Gee I had some today!!

 

[gb93433]

Most people enjoy the music that was present when something significant happened in their life. When that music is played it reminds them of that time. All of us need to be reminded of what God wants from and for us.

Oswald Chambers wrote something that needs to be remembered.

"The great difficulty spiritually is to concentrate on God, and it is His blessings that make it difficult. Troubles nearly always make us look to God; His blessings are apt to make us look elsewhere." (http://utmost.org/classic/what-am-i-looking-at/)

So often when we are faced with difficulties, we look to God, but when we experience blessings we begin to argue and fight.

 

[saturneptune]

Each local church decides its music style and program. There is a vast array of choices. I have no problem with any style that praises and honors the Lord. (contemporary or traditional) I personally like the hymn book type songs, but can listen to anything. Where I draw the line is songs that make fun of or demean the Lord. A good example is the song "Drop Kick Me Jesus Through the Goal Posts of Life."

 

[nodak]

I think I was misunderstood.

If a church is large and growing because it is faithful to the gospel and reaching folks in their community with the truth, fantastic.

But it does happen sometimes that being faithful to God goes out the window in order to form a megachurch. That is wrong.

I once suffered under a pastor (SBC) that was a megachurch wanna be.

There were a variety of churches in the area, and they had a variety of styles and ways to meet the needs of various groups. (Rural folks, city folks, Anglos, Hispanics both spanish speaking and english speaking, Navajo, Apache, etc.)

This gentleman believed he was annointed by God to unify them all into the urban and hip mode--even going to those other churches and urging them to shut down and join his church under the Experiencing God guise of "finding out where God is working and joining Him."

Uh, sorry, no. God absolutely cares about the hip and urban. But he also cares about the old cowboy on the range, the southern person and the upper midwesterner, and any other culture you can think of.

If those folks want to come to a homogenized way of worship and do so, there is nothing wrong with that.

But there is also nothing wrong with honoring their individual, unique ways and forming churches that reflect them.

 

[gb93433]

.Others had serious problems because young pastors came in and introduced the cont. music without speaking to their boards, others introduced it in spite of their boards disagreement with it. Others boards instituted it and when folks wanted to discuss it, they were told there would be no discussion.

An excellent book on the subject that should be read by everyone ishttp://www.amazon.com/Who-Stole-My-...0491/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1327269321&sr=8-1 Who Stole My Church: What to Do When the Church You Love Tries to Enter the 21st Century by Gordon MacDonald

For a movement that was brought into most of the churches to "grow" the church and reach young folks is decreased many churches of their older.

I would disagree in that it was not what young people were looking for. I meet with mostly younger people and find that they are hungry for my time. I usually meet with them for an agreed one hour of time but seldom that happen. Usually I meet with them for a minimum of two hours and at times for up to four hours. I cannot think of one time that I have had such deep discussion with an older adult or someone my own age. The young generation ask tough questions and do not settle for just simple answers.

When my daughter was in the seventh grade I overheard a discussion she was having with her friends about capital punishment. when was the last time that was discussed in church.

Just as a side note for your thought, received this recently from Crosswalk news email.

"Nearly 60 Percent of Young People Leaving the Church
A recent study by the Barna Group found that almost 60 percent of Christian young people ages 15 to 29 have distanced themselves from active involvement in church, CBN News reports. David Kinnaman, president of theBarna Group, says a few reasons behind the mass exodus include young people finding churches "shallow," feeling that God is missing from services, and feeling that church is not a safe place to express doubts. He added that in many cases, churches have failed to equip young people to live "in but not of" the world. "[Young people] tell us that ... Christianity has become so hip, so watered-down, so about entertainment -- and they're looking for something of more substance," Kinnaman said. However, not all is lost: Kinnaman said this has led some young people to begin attending more traditional, conservative churches. "They want to feel that their faith matters, that they're learning the truth of Scripture," he said."

Considering a lot of elders that left over music and one must wonder why churches are growing - are they growing in number of Christians, or just growing in numbers?

Who is supposed to be more mature? Who is to be an example to who? Who serves who?

Barna is exactly right. I have been meeting with young people for years and hear what they are saying. Until recently I met with a young man who told me that he had never read his Bible at home. He had only read it at church. His dad was an elder in a local church. His dad is about 50.

Until my first year in college there was not one Christian every shared their faith with me. It was not until I was a college student that a fellow student shared his faith in Christ with me. He nor I came from a Christian home. When I was in seminary I heard a student ask why she should give her testimony. She shared that her dad was the chairman of the deacons at FBC _____ and had gone to all Christian schools. She had never shared her faith yet she had gone to Christian schools from elementary to seminary. That is an example of some of the people in our churches. Is that authentic Christianity as Jesus taught? It is not what I saw in the parachurch organization that I was involved in and the man discipled me was involved in. The man who led me to Christ became a pastor. The man who led him became a missionary in Ethiopia. I eventually became a pastor.

While I am meeting with young people there are those who think these people are not fit for leadership. Usually within a short amount of time of meeting with these young people they begin to reach their friends and make disciples. It is not very long and they experience the joy it brings but they also notice the leadership in the church they attend. Almost always I have to address the issue and tell them to keep their focus on Jesus instead of the church leaders they know.

 

[agedman]

An excellent book on the subject that should be read by everyone ishttp://www.amazon.com/Who-Stole-My-...0491/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1327269321&sr=8-1 Who Stole My Church: What to Do When the Church You Love Tries to Enter the 21st Century by Gordon MacDonald

I would disagree in that it was not what young people were looking for. I meet with mostly younger people and find that they are hungry for my time. I usually meet with them for an agreed one hour of time but seldom that happen. Usually I meet with them for a minimum of two hours and at times for up to four hours. I cannot think of one time that I have had such deep discussion with an older adult or someone my own age. The young generation ask tough questions and do not settle for just simple answers.

When my daughter was in the seventh grade I overheard a discussion she was having with her friends about capital punishment. when was the last time that was discussed in church.

Who is supposed to be more mature? Who is to be an example to who? Who serves who?

Barna is exactly right. I have been meeting with young people for years and hear what they are saying. Until recently I met with a young man who told me that he had never read his Bible at home. He had only read it at church. His dad was an elder in a local church. His dad is about 50.

Until my first year in college there was not one Christian every shared their faith with me. It was not until I was a college student that a fellow student shared his faith in Christ with me. He nor I came from a Christian home. When I was in seminary I heard a student ask why she should give her testimony. She shared that her dad was the chairman of the deacons at FBC _____ and had gone to all Christian schools. She had never shared her faith yet she had gone to Christian schools from elementary to seminary. That is an example of some of the people in our churches. Is that authentic Christianity as Jesus taught? It is not what I saw in the parachurch organization that I was involved in and the man discipled me was involved in. The man who led me to Christ became a pastor. The man who led him became a missionary in Ethiopia. I eventually became a pastor.

While I am meeting with young people there are those who think these people are not fit for leadership. Usually within a short amount of time of meeting with these young people they begin to reach their friends and make disciples. It is not very long and they experience the joy it brings but they also notice the leadership in the church they attend. Almost always I have to address the issue and tell them to keep their focus on Jesus instead of the church leaders they know.

And all this supports the use of heavy metal sounding "Christian" music, How?