Why James White Is Sick of The Calvinist Club

[thatbrian]

Yes and no. No if asked the question directly, but yes in many areas of application of the concept. More of what I consider Calvinist word games.

Are you saying that Calvinists secretly believe that God Himself is the author of evil, but we hide that fact in our carefully-worded posts?

 

[thatbrian]

All sin is like this. That is my point. The fruit appealed to Adam and Eve (it was good for food, pleasing to the eye and desirable to make one wise). And for Eve it was before "the Fall" (before Adam sinned). For both, the temptation appealed to the desire of the flesh.

A perfect being would understand that sin is insanity. There would be no desire to usurp one's perfect God, in a perfectly created being.

 

[JonC]

A perfect being would understand that sin is insanity. There would be no desire to usurp one's perfect God, in a perfectly created being.

If I understand you correctly your argument is that God created Adam with a less than perfect nature or as a less than perfect man as both Adam and Eve disobeyed God.

I agree in the sense that God created man to be less than God.

 

[Revmitchell]

Any examples?

If you want to go look them up you go ahead. If you choose not to believe me I wont lose any sleep over it. I have been on this board quite a while. I have seen calvies come and go. You do what you want.

 

[thatbrian]

If I understand you correctly your argument is that God created Adam with a less than perfect nature or as a less than perfect man as both Adam and Eve disobeyed God.

I agree in the sense that God created man to be less than God.

Again, this is not something easily reckoned with.

 

[thatbrian]

If you want to go look them up you go ahead. If you choose not to believe me I wont lose any sleep over it. I have been on this board quite a while. I have seen calvies come and go. You do what you want.

The search function works. I've just checked it.

 

[Revmitchell]

Yes and no. No if asked the question directly, but yes in many areas of application of the concept. More of what I consider Calvinist word games.

"Kind of like God doesn't save you against your will." He changes your will or nature and you receive it willingly."

So then the question becomes, Did the man choose to have his nature or will changed? If not then God went against their will.

 

[InTheLight]

Sorry. I must have done edits to that post and didn't realize my error. I meant to say that God certainly knew what would happen.

Ah, I see. God "looked down through the corridors of time" and saw what would happen, saw that Adam would sin, so based on that foreknowledge he created a plan to predestine people to be saved. Got it.

 

[Reynolds]

Are you saying that Calvinists secretly believe that God Himself is the author of evil, but we hide that fact in our carefully-worded posts?

I am saying "God is sovereign and in control" when convenient. When that logically makes Him responsible for evil, then all of a sudden man and Satan seem to have enough free will to skirt that responsibility.
Kind of like denying double predestination. God creates a person with no intention of offering salvation to them, but he did not predestine them to Hell. God creates a man and predestined to extend irresistible grace to him and you have no problem say in he was predestined to Heaven. Word games and more word games.

 

[Reynolds]

Ah, I see. God "looked down through the corridors of time" and saw what would happen, saw that Adam would sin, so based on that foreknowledge he created a plan to predestine people to be saved. Got it.

He knew what they would choose if they had a choice, so he predestined them and gave them no choice. Makes sense to me.

 

[Iconoclast]

If you want to go look them up you go ahead. If you choose not to believe me I wont lose any sleep over it. I have been on this board quite a while. I have seen calvies come and go. You do what you want.

As usual...you never back up your accusations

 

[Iconoclast]

Ah, I see. God "looked down through the corridors of time" and saw what would happen, saw that Adam would sin, so based on that foreknowledge he created a plan to predestine people to be saved. Got it.

You totally do not get it.
People become saved because God determined it...before the fall.

 

[thatbrian]

So then the question becomes, Did the man choose to have his nature or will changed? If not then God went against their will.

And am I forever grateful that He did.

 

[thatbrian]

I am saying "God is sovereign and in control" when convenient. When that logically makes Him responsible for evil, then all of a sudden man and Satan seem to have enough free will to skirt that responsibility.
Kind of like denying double predestination. God creates a person with no intention of offering salvation to them, but he did not predestine them to Hell. God creates a man and predestined to extend irresistible grace to him and you have no problem say in he was predestined to Heaven. Word games and more word games.

Thanks for the explanation of your views.

What you seem to miss, if you do believe that God is all-knowing, is that your view has the same "problem".

 

[InTheLight]

You totally do not get it.
People become saved because God determined it...before the fall.

No, you don't get it.

ThatBrian continually makes posts about Arminian's view of election being "God looks down the corridors of time and sees that man makes a decision for Christ", as if God's actions were dependent on man's decision. Here we see ThatBrian saying "God looked down the corridors of time and saw what would happen in the Garden, saw what Adam would do" and then his actions were dependent on Adam's decision. The irony is thick.

 

[InTheLight]

He knew what they would choose if they had a choice, so he predestined them and gave them no choice. Makes sense to me.

I'm still in awe because ThatBrian used the "God looked down the corridors of time" to explain the Fall.

 

[Iconoclast]

No, you don't get it.

ThatBrian continually makes posts about Arminian's view of election being "God looks down the corridors of time and sees that man makes a decision for Christ", as if God's actions were dependent on man's decision. Here we see ThatBrian saying "God looked down the corridors of time and saw what would happen in the Garden, saw what Adam would do" and then his actions were dependent on Adam's decision. The irony is thick.

ITL.....read this,let me know if this is helpful;

http://www.sgbcsv.org/literature/ProblemOfEvil.pdf

 

[delizzle]

ITL.....read this,let me know if this is helpful;

http://www.sgbcsv.org/literature/ProblemOfEvil.pdf

Here is another point of view on the P.O.E.View attachment The Problem of Evil.pdf

 

[Squire Robertsson]

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