Why Jesus Said "I Never Knew You"?

[utilyan]

We love Him because He first loved us.

I love Him because He first saved me.

It is because I am saved is why I am commanded by Him to love others so that others may know I love God for what He has done for me.

What is considered the Good News to you?

Proverbs 25:25 As cold waters to a thirsty soul, so is good news from a far country.

Romans 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. 14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! 16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? 17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Simply Hark,
Did you hate God the moment you were saved? The moment you accepted Jesus as Lord and Savior, did you do it spitting at God?


I can't make a fist without God's help. The firing of the brains electo-chemical. Saying which muscles do what. I don't have a clue how it works.

Your ability to love is provided by GOD we agree here. I think we are at odds as to when.

Here is a link to catechism on the Image of God. http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s1c1a1.htm

The dignity of the Image of God.

16. In the depths of his conscience, man detects a law which he does not impose upon himself, but which holds him to obedience. Always summoning him to love good and avoid evil, the voice of conscience when necessary speaks to his heart: do this, shun that. For man has in his heart a law written by God; to obey it is the very dignity of man; according to it he will be judged.(9) Conscience is the most secret core and sanctuary of a man. There he is alone with God, Whose voice echoes in his depths.(10) In a wonderful manner conscience reveals that law which is fulfilled by love of God and neighbor.(11) In fidelity to conscience, Christians are joined with the rest of men in the search for truth, and for the genuine solution to the numerous problems which arise in the life of individuals from social relationships. Hence the more right conscience holds sway, the more persons and groups turn aside from blind choice and strive to be guided by the objective norms of morality. Conscience frequently errs from invincible ignorance without losing its dignity. The same cannot be said for a man who cares but little for truth and goodness, or for a conscience which by degrees grows practically sightless as a result of habitual sin. --GAUDIUM ET SPES

 

[utilyan]

Isaiah 64:6 For we are all become as one who is unclean, and all our righteousness are as a polluted garment: and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, take us away.
--Doing good can't save a person either.

When Christ died on the cross did he do good?

Didn't God so LOVED the world he gave his son?

God is with us. We are on the same team. That curtain you keep trying to put up between Jesus and Yourself is ripped in half.

I got a better question for you, it may clear things up. Who's the boss here? Cause we Catholics can say GOD is LOVE. We can also say LOVE IS GOD.

If you rely solely on Love you rely on God alone. If you abide in Love then you abide in God. 1 John 4.

 

[DHK]

When Christ died on the cross did he do good?

He did the ultimate "good"; paid the ultimate sacrifice: God in the flesh dying on the cross for sinful man.

Didn't God so LOVED the world he gave his son?

So great was his love. It is incomprehensible.

God is with us. We are on the same team. That curtain you keep trying to put up between Jesus and Yourself is ripped in half.

But we are not on the same team. God is holy, righteous, and stands far apart from sin.
How can a sinful and unholy man stand before a righteous and holy God. It is impossible.
That curtain is the veil, the veil that was in the OT tabernacle that separated the holy place from the holliest of holies. Only the high priest could enter into that place and then only once a year, and that day was on the Day of Atonement. In the OT there was a High Priest that made an atonement for the sins of the people of Israel.

When Christ died on the Cross, the actual veil in the Temple was miraculously ripped in two.
Christ became our Great High Priest. He now has made an atonement for our sins.

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
--But John is writing to believers in Christ, those who have already trusted him. He says: "Not for ours only..." The only way that this atonement or propitiation can be available to others is if they personally trust Christ as their Lord and Savior.
Not until then will Christ accept their love or good works. Before that time their love and good works are but filthy rags.

Romans 3:12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
As far as God accepting your works before salvation he won't. They are not good.

I got a better question for you, it may clear things up. Who's the boss here? Cause we Catholics can say GOD is LOVE. We can also say LOVE IS GOD.

If you rely solely on Love you rely on God alone. If you abide in Love then you abide in God. 1 John 4.

You can say what you want. But Jesus says: You must be born again.
The new birth involves the Holy Spirit.
The new birth involves the Word of God.
The new birth does NOT involve baptism or water.

1 Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
--The Holy Spirit works through the Word of God to bring a person to Christ.

 

[Hark]

Simply Hark,
Did you hate God the moment you were saved? The moment you accepted Jesus as Lord and Savior, did you do it spitting at God?

We loved God because He first loved us by having saved us.

I can't make a fist without God's help. The firing of the brains electo-chemical. Saying which muscles do what. I don't have a clue how it works.

Love and faith are both a fruit of the Spirit and they are from Jesus Christ; Philippians 1:11

Your ability to love is provided by GOD we agree here. I think we are at odds as to when.

John 3:16 puts God first in loving the world.

Here is a link to catechism on the Image of God. http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s1c1a1.htm

The dignity of the Image of God.

16. In the depths of his conscience, man detects a law which he does not impose upon himself, but which holds him to obedience. Always summoning him to love good and avoid evil, the voice of conscience when necessary speaks to his heart: do this, shun that. For man has in his heart a law written by God; to obey it is the very dignity of man; according to it he will be judged.(9) Conscience is the most secret core and sanctuary of a man. There he is alone with God, Whose voice echoes in his depths.(10) In a wonderful manner conscience reveals that law which is fulfilled by love of God and neighbor.(11) In fidelity to conscience, Christians are joined with the rest of men in the search for truth, and for the genuine solution to the numerous problems which arise in the life of individuals from social relationships. Hence the more right conscience holds sway, the more persons and groups turn aside from blind choice and strive to be guided by the objective norms of morality. Conscience frequently errs from invincible ignorance without losing its dignity. The same cannot be said for a man who cares but little for truth and goodness, or for a conscience which by degrees grows practically sightless as a result of habitual sin. --GAUDIUM ET SPES

Thanks for the link BTW.

Romans 5:6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. 7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die. 8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

Sinners are free to call on Jesus to save them, and after they have been saved as believers, they can trust Him to set them free from their sins to live as His disciples.

John 8:30 As he spake these words, many believed on him. 31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; 32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. 33 They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free? 34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin. 35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever. 36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.[/QUOTE]

 

[utilyan]

We loved God because He first loved us by having saved us.



Love and faith are both a fruit of the Spirit and they are from Jesus Christ; Philippians 1:11



John 3:16 puts God first in loving the world.



Thanks for the link BTW.

Romans 5:6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. 7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die. 8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

Sinners are free to call on Jesus to save them, and after they have been saved as believers, they can trust Him to set them free from their sins to live as His disciples.

John 8:30 As he spake these words, many believed on him. 31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; 32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. 33 They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free? 34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin. 35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever. 36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

[/QUOTE]

Hark maybe you missed my question. I don't question the God provided the ability for us to love. If it wasn't for God I wouldn't have gotten out of bed this morning among millions of other things.

Did you hate God the moment you were saved? The moment you accepted Jesus as Lord and Savior, did you do it spitting at God?


John 3 16“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

Doesn't say God saved then loved. He loved us first, that's enough to qualify the ability, and then provides means of salvation again AFTER he loves US.

If anyone tries to throw love out the equation it will never work. You cannot accept Jesus Christ as Lord within the sin of not loving God.

 

[utilyan]

1 Corinthians 13
13But now faith, hope, love, abide these three; but the greatest of these is love.

Is that right? Is the word of GOD correct?

Shouldn't it say the greatest of these is FAITH!?

2If I have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge; and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing.

You have faith, how many mountains do you move? Here he says HAVE ALL FAITH but don't have love I AM NOTHING.

Shouldn't it say love is NOTHING, love doesn't save you, LOVE is nothing, I have all faith then I have everything.

Am I the only bible believer here? Is there anyone who actually believes what the bible says FLAT OUT?

Is there anyone out there who actually believes Christ?

Luke 10
25And a lawyer stood up and put Him to the test, saying, “Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?” 26And He said to him, “What is written in the Law? How does it read to you?” 27And he answered, “YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR STRENGTH, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND; AND YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.” 28And He said to him, “You have answered correctly; DO THIS AND YOU WILL LIVE.”


Where is my bible believers!? who would scream AMEN! to any scripture I throw at them rather then deny Jesus Christ.


I can say AMEN to the bible THE WHOLE THING. If you throw a verse implying one meaning, Ill grab it set it straight present it as I understand it. But what you won't see me to is turn my back completely or hide from what is said. Oh well it says this over here no-no-no....

Whenever I mention something like LUKE 10 how come there is no joy in explaining it? Instead its like letting air out of a whoopee cushion. Yeah well Jesus was just kidding that time, common it was hot day...... Or Wait you want us to do what Jesus says to do? are you nuts?

 

[Hark]

Hark maybe you missed my question. I don't question the God provided the ability for us to love. If it wasn't for God I wouldn't have gotten out of bed this morning among millions of other things.

Did you hate God the moment you were saved?

Nope.

The moment you accepted Jesus as Lord and Savior, did you do it spitting at God?

Nope.

Your quoted reference out of quote below.

John 3 16“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

Doesn't say God saved then loved. He loved us first, that's enough to qualify the ability, and then provides means of salvation again AFTER he loves US.

If anyone tries to throw love out the equation it will never work. You cannot accept Jesus Christ as Lord within the sin of not loving God.

You can't throw that portion out of the verse either, brother.

"that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life."

It did not say "that whoever loves Him shall not perish, but have eternal life."

But somehow, you managed to read it that way.

 

[Hark]

1 Corinthians 13
13But now faith, hope, love, abide these three; but the greatest of these is love.

Is that right? Is the word of GOD correct?

Shouldn't it say the greatest of these is FAITH!?

I put your scriptural reference out of quote for easier reading so I can point out this phrase; "abide these three;"

What three are we to abide in? "But now faith, hope, love, abide these three"

Just because the greatest of these three is love, it does not excuse you from abiding in the other two.

 

[utilyan]

Nope.



Nope.

Your quoted reference out of quote below.

John 3 16“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.



You can't throw that portion out of the verse either, brother.

"that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life."

It did not say "that whoever loves Him shall not perish, but have eternal life."

But somehow, you managed to read it that way.

That's easy because Jesus says "believe" it means the obedience: Even Satan "believes" according to your limited take of the word. But he disobeys does not love. And his commandment is LOVE.


"He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him." John 3:36

John 14
23Jesus answered and said to him, “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our abode with him. 24“He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine, but the Father’s who sent Me.


There is whole chapters specifically aimed at your mistake:

1 John 2
3By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him; 5but whoever keeps His word, in him the love of God has truly been perfected. By this we know that we are in Him: 6the one who says he abides in Him ought himself to walk in the same manner as He walked.

1 john 3
23This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us. 24The one who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. We know by this that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.


Here's your mistake, Hark. You differentiate believe in Jesus with the commandments.

Loving God, Believing Jesus, Loving your neighbor.........all of it, Is just one.


If you think Believing Jesus is separate from loving God, you got a problem. If you think loving your neighbor doesn't involved loving God, you have a problem.


If you told me you believe in God and didn't love him at all. I would answer you don't believe in God at all. Just like how it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck. Loving God is intrinsic to actual accurate belief.

 

[Hark]

That's easy because Jesus says "believe" it means the obedience: Even Satan "believes" according to your limited take of the word. But he disobeys does not love. And his commandment is LOVE.

"He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him." John 3:36

The King James Bible has the correct translation.

John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

So to obey is to believe.

And Satan cannot be redeemed when he is cursed to the everlasting fire.

John 14
23Jesus answered and said to him, “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our abode with him. 24“He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine, but the Father’s who sent Me.

Let me ask you this:

John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

What commandments is Jesus talking about here to get the promise of the permanent indwelling Holy Ghost? It can't be everything that Jesus taught or otherwise you would never get that promise because you still have to keep them. So what commandments is He talking about here?

For such a promise of the Holy Ghost, you would think Jesus would say what exactly those commandments are. And He did, from the very beginning.

John 14:1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me......10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. 11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake. 12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, ....

So the commandments to get the promise of the Holy Ghost was "believe me" repeated again & again before coming to that promise in that verse.

There is whole chapters specifically aimed at your mistake:

1 John 2
3By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him; 5but whoever keeps His word, in him the love of God has truly been perfected. By this we know that we are in Him: 6the one who says he abides in Him ought himself to walk in the same manner as He walked.

1 john 3
23This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us. 24The one who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. We know by this that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

Here's your mistake, Hark. You differentiate believe in Jesus with the commandments.

Loving God, Believing Jesus, Loving your neighbor.........all of it, Is just one.

If you think Believing Jesus is separate from loving God, you got a problem. If you think loving your neighbor doesn't involved loving God, you have a problem.

Salvation is a free gift. You can't earn it any other way or keep it. Believing in Him that He has saved you pleases God your Savior. Hebrews 11:6

Loving others is a race that has to be run by faith in Jesus Christ to help us love our neighbors as ourselves, especially when they treat you wrongly like an enemy. That is called discipleship. One has to be saved for us to have Him in us so we can run that race by faith in Jesus Christ.

If you told me you believe in God and didn't love him at all. I would answer you don't believe in God at all. Just like how it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck. Loving God is intrinsic to actual accurate belief.

I am not sure why you would take that tact when I believe in God and He helps me to love Him first and foremost and then love others, including my enemies.

If God loved us while we were yet sinners, then God the Father will love the prodigal son for going astray because he is still son.

 

[utilyan]

The King James Bible has the correct translation.

John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

So to obey is to believe.

And Satan cannot be redeemed when he is cursed to the everlasting fire.



Let me ask you this:

John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

What commandments is Jesus talking about here to get the promise of the permanent indwelling Holy Ghost? It can't be everything that Jesus taught or otherwise you would never get that promise because you still have to keep them. So what commandments is He talking about here?

For such a promise of the Holy Ghost, you would think Jesus would say what exactly those commandments are. And He did, from the very beginning.

John 14:1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me......10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. 11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake. 12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, ....

So the commandments to get the promise of the Holy Ghost was "believe me" repeated again & again before coming to that promise in that verse.



Salvation is a free gift. You can't earn it any other way or keep it. Believing in Him that He has saved you pleases God your Savior. Hebrews 11:6

Loving others is a race that has to be run by faith in Jesus Christ to help us love our neighbors as ourselves, especially when they treat you wrongly like an enemy. That is called discipleship. One has to be saved for us to have Him in us so we can run that race by faith in Jesus Christ.



I am not sure why you would take that tact when I believe in God and He helps me to love Him first and foremost and then love others, including my enemies.

If God loved us while we were yet sinners, then God the Father will love the prodigal son for going astray because he is still son.

The bible did not fall out the sky written in ENGLISH.

The original Greek clearly says OBEY.

God gives us the ability to Love him and to Love others and he does so at the ORDER which he proclaims.


1 john 4
20If someone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for the one who does not love his brother whom he has seen, cannot love God whom he has not seen.


It does not say HAS not loved God. It says CANNOT as in CAN NOT. The ability to love God is only provided after you love the brothers you do see.


God gives us the ability to Forgive others and he Forgives us and he doe so at the ORDER which he proclaims.

Matthew 6

14“For if you forgive others for their transgressions, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15“But if you do not forgive others, then your Father will not forgive your transgressions.


You must forgive others BEFORE any forgiveness comes from God.


James 2
17Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself.


You can't just take everything Jesus and the bible says and run it BACKWARDS.

You would deny the ORDER God states to approve the BACKWARDS the scripture I stated.

You would believe ALL BACKWARDS. Satan approves BACKWARDS
"Even so WORKS, if it has no Faith, is dead, being by itself."
BACKWARDS
"For if God forgives you your trespasses, you will forgive others"
BACKWARDS
"if you love God you don't see, THEN you will love the brothers you do see"
BACKWARDS


Romans 2
5But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6who WILL RENDER TO EACH PERSON ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS: 7to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life; 8but to those who are selfishly ambitious and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, wrath and indignation. 9There will be tribulation and distress for every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek, 10but glory and honor and peace to everyone who does good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 11For there is no partiality with God.

Point here is Render to each person according to his FAITH? NO. His Deeds.

2nd point. "those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life;"

Someone who is saved, already has the glory, honor and immortality of eternal life. Right here we have one who by perseverance in doing good seeks it.

See you think your status saves you and there is 2nd class salvation where its a race to a wedding. Status doesn't do a thing for you because there is no partiality with God.

That means there is no license to sin as Satan sells nor license to do good as Pharisees sell.

 

[Hark]

The bible did not fall out the sky written in ENGLISH.

None of the other English Bible translations were either. And the KJV has been translated into other languages.

The original Greek clearly says OBEY.

Clearly? Do feel free to cite a source. More than likely, it is not from the documents originating from Antioch where the Textus Receptus came fro;. Acts 11:26 but from Alexandria where poetic licensing and gnosticism was known to have been practiced. In any event, here is the TR as the source document with Strong's Concordance.

http://www.sacrednamebible.com/kjvstrongs/STRGRK5.htm#S544

The Greek word "apeitheo" is defined as

"from apeiqhV - apeithes 545; to disbelieve (wilfully and perversely):--not believe, disobedient, obey not, unbelieving."

So as you can clearly see, obey is not so definite as you would like it to be.

God gives us the ability to Love him and to Love others and he does so at the ORDER which he proclaims.

1 john 4
20If someone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for the one who does not love his brother whom he has seen, cannot love God whom he has not seen.

It does not say HAS not loved God. It says CANNOT as in CAN NOT. The ability to love God is only provided after you love the brothers you do see.

That is just a guideline to know which brother is abiding in Him as His disciple in following Him and which are not. John never said that he who does not love his "brother" is not a brother. John is writing to rebuke the brother that is not loving his brother to repent, because he is still a brother. It is because he is a brother, he should repent, otherwise, he is going to get a comeuppance from the Father.