Why Most of Your Church Don't Believe in Tithing

[nodak]

Giving to God isn't just giving to the church, either.

God may very well tell you to give to someone directly, or to a ministry of which your church is not part.

While Jesus praised the widow for giving her mite, I believe He would give us a royal chewing out if we went around teaching the widows MUST or SHOULD give those mites.

I believe rather He would challenge us to give to those widows rather than build a nicer newer Forward in Faith building, or make sure we order some new music, or any of the other luxuries we enjoy whether it be as individuals, church staff, or the church body as a whole.

 

[JonC]

Regardless IF oneholds to the tithe for today or not, answer to OP would be we give little because we have yet to allow jesus to be Lord over our financial affairs, especially giving!

Good point.
If one considers tithing to be the ten percent that belongs to God, but this is part of the Law so technically Christians don’t tithe, that’s fine. But then you have to look at the New Testament and one hundred percent of everything we have and are belongs to God. We are slaves, bought with a price. How then is our stewardship?

There is a point that tithing does cause some to view the 90% as their own rather than God’s. I had not previously thought of that aspect.

 

[percho]

My question still stands.

Another. Is the time frame of my question relative to life today in the Christian world?

 

[JonC]

I think that the problem is larger than the article supposes.

During the last century the there has been a shift in the way that the Church defines itself. Focus has shifted from Church as a body of believers sharing life and functioning as the body of Christ - to Church as the body of Christ functioning to reach the world. Evangelism has always been important, but now evangelism and church growth is often viewed as the main purpose of a church.

Economic downturns will always be an issue, but there was a time when believers supported each other. It is difficult in our society because everyone is “alone.” If you can, you give to support the Church in reaching the world for Christ. This is not the type of love exhibited in the early church where you took care of a brother or sister, and they took care of you. That type of love seems absent in American Christianity – you attend Church a couple of times a week, but life happens outside.

Church is now something we do, not something we are.

 

[nodak]

In my grandmother's day, folks did indeed take care of each other.

And while they tithed, it wasn't just writing a check for 10% of their paycheck.

In the first place, they might not get one during the depression. And if they did, all of it might be needed to keep the children from starving, the county from taking the farm, or to pay a dr finally.

But they gave what they had and what they could do--give the parson a chicken now and then, share their eggs with him, take a load of firewood down to the church, etc.

Nowadays it is SOOO easy to criticize how much another person gives to the church without walking in their shoes.

While I hope it isn't so, it may be God is about to bless a whole lot of us with abject poverty to teach us a thing or three about figuring out how much OTHERS should be giving.

 

[gb93433]

I know a millionaire who became that after he went bankrupt.

Did he pay back his creditors?

He went to God and asked what he should give to God's work. He started out with only a tenth, which he increased as God blessed, and now gives over 50%, and has contributed to the start of two Bible colleges.

The problem I have with that kind of action is what we see in other countries where people are starving and the missionaries have little to work with to even help. I know some former missionaries who are now in poor health and live on very little. We have theological schools in America that are like monuments to God. The money could have gone to support so many missionaries and build buildings in other countries for a lot less money. It could be used to support theological schools for far less money in countries where books are a premium for people because of their low wages each year. Eventually every one of those buildings here will need repair and continually need maintenance.

I take the position that we are to be good stewards of what God gives us. That means that we do what God wants us to do. When we give the focus is not to be on what we may get in return but when we give it is gone from our control. It is given.

I know a man who invested his money over a long period of time. Some of the homes he bought now generate enough rent that he gets back in about 3 to 4 months what he paid for them years ago. He gives away almost all of the money from rents (over 300K per year) and more. He has been doing that for about thirty years now. Another man I knew gave 1/2 of his wages and did not leave enough for his wife to bury him. He always saw others needing it more than himself. Imagine what his wife felt like. She had to sell the home. Both men were/are very selfless but went a very different path with their money. The man who bought homes is over 90 and the other died at age 76. It is easy to figure out which one has given the most dollars.

A mere tenth? It is to laugh. A person who thinks God is satisfied with a mere tenth will never give his entire life to Christ, and thus never put himself in a position where God could call him or her as a missionary.

I would say as Jesus did that other things are far more important than giving money. If every church gave as many sermons on making disciples as they did giving and expected each person to make disciples what do you think their giving would be and the heart they would have for God and people? I have never had anyone who is making disciples ever give me any trouble as a pastor.

My wife and I were married in a church that gave 50% to missions and always had money. They used their staff wisely and trained people to do ministry. So from that experience I see most every church as wasting a lot of money on staff and things instead of teaching the people how to make disciples and letting that be the focus and lead the way rather than programs being led by staff.

A friend of mine who spent 23 years in a former communist country as a missionary and returned a few years ago can hardly pay his rent where he lives now. His wife has had to find other ways to generate income. I would hope you think that his situation is not tied to his giving money.

A few years ago I built a home with a friend of mine who spent 3.5% of his yearly income on the home we built him. It was his only home. He is not a Christian. How many Christians do you know who have given well who only spent that much on the home they live in.

The sun and rain falls down on everyone.

The way I see giving is to enable ministry to be done. But if you leave it at just that, then everyone should not support any church here and send it to Africa because a dollar goes a lot further there than here. If money is the only enabler of ministry and controls how much ministry is done then do not send any money to Europe and several countries Asia.

I will give you a real situation and ask what you would do. In a church I pastored was a man who was about 75 and had some serious health problems. He lived in a 12 foot travel trailer where it will get at least 115 degrees in the summer. His check each month was $450. How much should he have given?

 

[gb93433]

In my grandmother's day, folks did indeed take care of each other.

And while they tithed, it wasn't just writing a check for 10% of their paycheck.

In the first place, they might not get one during the depression. And if they did, all of it might be needed to keep the children from starving, the county from taking the farm, or to pay a dr finally.

But they gave what they had and what they could do--give the parson a chicken now and then, share their eggs with him, take a load of firewood down to the church, etc.

Nowadays it is SOOO easy to criticize how much another person gives to the church without walking in their shoes.

While I hope it isn't so, it may be God is about to bless a whole lot of us with abject poverty to teach us a thing or three about figuring out how much OTHERS should be giving.

Good points. James says that the poor are rich in faith. Does that say anything about the wealthy? I have also been told that there was a lot more praying then too. I can remember when I was a kid that many of the farmers helped each other to get their crops in. It was fast and fun too because we had a large group of several families working together.

My wife finds it easy to give and wants to give to those who seem to need it. She encountered a huge problem when we were married. I owned a business where I might have large sums of money in the bank and then most of it might be gone in a few weeks. She complained that she did not know how much to give and save. It was a big problem for her for a long time. I see her trusting God a lot more now.

 

[John of Japan]

Did he pay back his creditors?

Yes, as far as I know.

The problem I have with that kind of action is what we see in other countries where people are starving and the missionaries have little to work with to even help. I know some former missionaries who are now in poor health and live on very little. We have theological schools in America that are like monuments to God. The money could have gone to support so many missionaries and build buildings in other countries for a lot less money. It could be used to support theological schools for far less money in countries where books are a premium for people because of their low wages each year. Eventually every one of those buildings here will need repair and continually need maintenance.

I take the position that we are to be good stewards of what God gives us. That means that we do what God wants us to do. When we give the focus is not to be on what we may get in return but when we give it is gone from our control. It is given.

I did not mean to say that the actions of the millionaire I know are normative for all. That's how God, who owns it all, led him.

I don't think giving to build theological schools in America rules out helping missions. In fact, theological schools can produce missionaries.

As for using American money to build theological schools in other countries, I disagree. My board supports what we call the indigenous policy, which means we don't do for the nationals what they can do for themselves. I've been to a very poor ministry in a 3rd world country headed by a Japanese medical missionary. I spoke in their dirt poor Bible school which they had taken responsibility for and built themselves. The students were passionate about the Bible and about the Great Commission, dedicated to God, winning Hindu and Muslim souls in the surrounding villages. I'd hate to upset that by an infusion of American money with the latest library and computers.

I know a man who invested his money over a long period of time. Some of the homes he bought now generate enough rent that he gets back in about 3 to 4 months what he paid for them years ago. He gives away almost all of the money from rents (over 300K per year) and more. He has been doing that for about thirty years now. Another man I knew gave 1/2 of his wages and did not leave enough for his wife to bury him. He always saw others needing it more than himself. Imagine what his wife felt like. She had to sell the home. Both men were/are very selfless but went a very different path with their money. The man who bought homes is over 90 and the other died at age 76. It is easy to figure out which one has given the most dollars.

Good for the man renting properties. I think he illustrates my point, which is that it all belongs to God. But the man who did not care properly for his wife is "worse than an infidel"--unless of course his wife was behind all of that.

I would say as Jesus did that other things are far more important than giving money. If every church gave as many sermons on making disciples as they did giving and expected each person to make disciples what do you think their giving would be and the heart they would have for God and people? I have never had anyone who is making disciples ever give me any trouble as a pastor.

I agree completely.

My wife and I were married in a church that gave 50% to missions and always had money. They used their staff wisely and trained people to do ministry. So from that experience I see most every church as wasting a lot of money on staff and things instead of teaching the people how to make disciples and letting that be the focus and lead the way rather than programs being led by staff.

I've been in churches like this. It is relevant to note that the promise of God supplying all need in Phil. 4:19 is in the context of missionary support (vv. 14-18).

A friend of mine who spent 23 years in a former communist country as a missionary and returned a few years ago can hardly pay his rent where he lives now. His wife has had to find other ways to generate income. I would hope you think that his situation is not tied to his giving money.

Of course not. My heart goes out to him. I'm not agreed with the Charismatic idea that if you give to God everything will always be smooth. My Dad preached for 60 years but ended up working in a grocery store to pay the bills late in life.

I will give you a real situation and ask what you would do. In a church I pastored was a man who was about 75 and had some serious health problems. He lived in a 12 foot travel trailer where it will get at least 115 degrees in the summer. His check each month was $450. How much should he have given?

There is no way on earth I could answer this. Since it all belongs to God, he should pray to the Lord to ask how much he should give. It might be 1%, it might be 10%, I don't know.

 

[JonC]

While I hope it isn't so, it may be God is about to bless a whole lot of us with abject poverty to teach us a thing or three about figuring out how much OTHERS should be giving.

Or to provide a lesson in faith. It is amazing to see the level of faith and reliance upon God Christians have in third world countries. It is also amazing to examine God working in their lives and communities. I do not know if abundance is a blessing if it lulls us into complacency.

Giving is not only an act of benevolence, but also an act of faith in God’s provision.

 

[gb93433]

During the last century the there has been a shift in the way that the Church defines itself. Focus has shifted from Church as a body of believers sharing life and functioning as the body of Christ - to Church as the body of Christ functioning to reach the world. Evangelism has always been important, but now evangelism and church growth is often viewed as the main purpose of a church.

Economic downturns will always be an issue, but there was a time when believers supported each other. It is difficult in our society because everyone is “alone.” If you can, you give to support the Church in reaching the world for Christ. This is not the type of love exhibited in the early church where you took care of a brother or sister, and they took care of you. That type of love seems absent in American Christianity – you attend Church a couple of times a week, but life happens outside.

When I worked for a large company several years ago every month there were churches on the list that had not paid their bill. Yet today it seems that so many have borrowed money and "trusted God" for their future. If God has not given it now what makes us think He will in the future.

I was an interim at a church awhile back and some of the leaders were so focused on money that they did not do any ministry. I kept telling them to quit worrying about the money and start working. Not one of them ever brought anyone to the church. When I addressed the issue one of them said that he did not trust me to control the finances. I reminded him that I had worked for a Christian man who owned the largest business in America in its type of business. It was a failing branch when I came. I was responsible for meeting all kinds of parameters set by the company. I grew that business 3.2 times in the first year where I was located. Everything the church owed and took in was less than what I dealt with in one week. For about the past five years it was such an issue that when I addressed the issue some of the leaders saw the way

 

[gb93433]

I don't think giving to build theological schools in America rules out helping missions. In fact, theological schools can produce missionaries.

I would agree but I disagree with building buildings that are extravagant. I would take more of a middle road because all buildings will be demolished some day or a large sum of money spent to restore. A pastor in large city that I went to seminary with pastors a very large church and the decided to use metal buildings to meet in. Rick Warren used a lot of fabric covered buildings initially.

As for using American money to build theological schools in other countries, I disagree. My board supports what we call the indigenous policy, which means we don't do for the nationals what they can do for themselves.

I agree 100%. What I was thinking more about is giving people a roof over their head and resources for their pastors to use and pass down such as good books to help them.I know of a church in the states that initially they sent American missionaries to get the work started and then turned it over to the nationals. That makes a lot of sense to me. Plus it costs much less.

I've been to a very poor ministry in a 3rd world country headed by a Japanese medical missionary. I spoke in their dirt poor Bible school which they had taken responsibility for and built themselves. The students were passionate about the Bible and about the Great Commission, dedicated to God, winning Hindu and Muslim souls in the surrounding villages.

I would think you walked away with a renewed sense of what ministry is all about. Isn't it great when you are in the midst of that kind of atmosphere!!!

Good for the man renting properties. I think he illustrates my point, which is that it all belongs to God. But the man who did not care properly for his wife is "worse than an infidel"--unless of course his wife was behind all of that.

The problem was that she was not comfortable with that. He was always about trusting God. He was there when the church had not been in existence long and the people sacrificed to build what they did. His view was that if he had any money it was to give away.

There is no way on earth I could answer this. Since it all belongs to God, he should pray to the Lord to ask how much he should give. It might be 1%, it might be 10%, I don't know.

You gave the same answer I would have. The man gave what he could but there were people in the church who helped him every year in terms of food, etc. I know from meeting with him several times he would tell me about how blessed he was. What was neat to see was in that same church was a very wealthy man who sat about five feet from him. As I had gotten to know the wealthy man I realized that he had worked hard in business and gave away a lot. God had blessed him in so many ways. He was a tremendous man of integrity and shared his faith. As a pastor he was very generous with my family. When we went to his home it was like a haven. He was such an example of humility. Everywhere I went i heard the same thing about him. He was highly respected by his workers and people in the community.

Glad to read what you wrote. I think I am on the same page as you.

 

[Alcott]

And how do you verify, or unverify, that?

based upon the word of God!

I didn't ask what anything is based on. I asked how you verify, or unverify, that.