Why persons perish in Hell.

[Brightfame52]

BF where do you get your silly idea that I teach against the redemptive power of the risen Christ?
1Co_15:13 But if there is no resurrection of the dead, then Christ is not risen.
1Co_15:14 And if Christ is not risen, then our preaching is empty and your faith is also empty.
1Co_15:16 For if the dead do not rise, then Christ is not risen.
1Co_15:17 And if Christ is not risen, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins!

You seem to think that the sin of rejecting Christ/unbelief has been forgiven but you fail to think it through to the logical conclusion.
If one continues in their rejection / unbelief then they are not saved. Which is what the bible tells us
Joh 3:18 "He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Look at what you wrote BF "To be redeemed from all iniquity is to be redeemed from, unbelief and disobedience, all wickedness,"
How can one be redeemed from unbelief when belief is the condition of redemption?
Act 16:31 So they said, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved,

But then you last sentence shows the flaw in your thinking. You have people redeemed before they believe. You need to start trusting what the bible says rather than what you want the bible to say.
Joh 1:12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name:
Joh 1:13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Man does not and can not save himself as only God can save and He has chosen to save those that trust in His son
Eph 2:8 “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this [salvation is] not from yourselves, [this salvation] is the gift of God.”

And lest you think I am ignoring what you posted
Tit 2:11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men,
Tit 2:12 teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age,
Tit 2:13 looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ,
Tit 2:14 who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from every lawless deed and purify for Himself His own special people, zealous for good works.

Context will help you clear up your confusion. The grace of God is available to all men but salvation is conditional.

You deny that Christs death redeems from all iniquity and purifies the people redeemed. When they are purified they are given Faith Acts 15:8-9

8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;

9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.

See unbelief and rejecting Christ is nothing but iniquity, however Christs death redeems from all iniquity. If you dont believe that, you have no faith in Jesus Christ !

 

[Silverhair]

You deny that Christs death redeems from all iniquity and purifies the people redeemed. When they are purified they are given Faith Acts 15:8-9

8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;

9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.

See unbelief and rejecting Christ is nothing but iniquity, however Christs death redeems from all iniquity. If you dont believe that, you have no faith in Jesus Christ !

I quote scripture and you deny it and then accuse me of denying Christ, really.

Those that deny/reject Christ do so because of unbelief which condemns them. Belief/faith in Christ Jesus is the condition of salvation. How much scripture do you need to see before you will believe what it says?
Eph 1:13 In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,

One is redeemed from all iniquity by the grace of God through faith in the risen Christ.

How clear does the bible have to be before you will trust what it says. You post scripture and then read into it what you want to find. To paraphrase Augustine:
“If you believe what you like in the bible, and reject what you don’t like, it is not the bible you believe, but yourself.”

Rom 3:26 he did it to demonstrate his justice at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.

BF your logic is flawed. If Christ redeemed us from the one condition that is required for salvation then that condition does not have to be met. So by your logic unbelieving people will be saved and by extension that would make you a universalist. Are you ?

 

[Brightfame52]

I quote scripture and you deny it and then accuse me of denying Christ, really.

Those that deny/reject Christ do so because of unbelief which condemns them. Belief/faith in Christ Jesus is the condition of salvation. How much scripture do you need to see before you will believe what it says?
Eph 1:13 In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,

One is redeemed from all iniquity by the grace of God through faith in the risen Christ.

How clear does the bible have to be before you will trust what it says. You post scripture and then read into it what you want to find. To paraphrase Augustine:
“If you believe what you like in the bible, and reject what you don’t like, it is not the bible you believe, but yourself.”

Rom 3:26 he did it to demonstrate his justice at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.

BF your logic is flawed. If Christ redeemed us from the one condition that is required for salvation then that condition does not have to be met. So by your logic unbelieving people will be saved and by extension that would make you a universalist. Are you ?

You deny the redeeming death of Christ, it redeems from all iniquity, and purifys a people unto zealous good works, which necessarily includes Faith Titus 2:14

14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

How can a person be zealous of good works for God without having faith in Christ ?

If you dont believe this, you are still in unbelief !

 

[Silverhair]

You deny the redeeming death of Christ, it redeems from all iniquity, and purifys a people unto zealous good works, which necessarily includes Faith Titus 2:14

14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

How can a person be zealous of good works for God without having faith in Christ ?

If you dont believe this, you are still in unbelief !

BF it is obvious that you will not trust what the bible says and so will continue to hold to your errant theological view. I have given you clear scripture and you respond with vague verses that do not support your view but that you read into in the hope that they will.

It is sad that you have chosen to follow the logic of man rather than trust the word of God, but it is what it is. You have chosen to trust in yourself rather than the word of God.

 

[Brightfame52]

BF it is obvious that you will not trust what the bible says and so will continue to hold to your errant theological view. I have given you clear scripture and you respond with vague verses that do not support your view but that you read into in the hope that they will.

It is sad that you have chosen to follow the logic of man rather than trust the word of God, but it is what it is. You have chosen to trust in yourself rather than the word of God.

Another scripture, Christs death redeems them He died for from unbelief, or what is called a vain manner of life 1 Pet 1:18-21


18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;

19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.

See that ? Redemption results in Faith in God,

If you dont believe this, you have no Faith in the Blood of Christ.

 

[DaveXR650]

What about this, just to throw it out there:
"That Christ died for all humanity, and no human being can undo or escape the fact that everyone has been died for, and no one can evade, elude or avoid the fact that they are loved by God. Therefore when they do the inconceivable thing in the face of that divine love, namely, refuse it, defy it, turn away from it, that unavoidable self-giving of God is their very judgment."
And later, "Objectively then, we must think of atonement as sufficient and efficacious reality for every human being - it is such sufficient and efficacious reality that it is the rock of offense, the rock of judgement upon which the sinner who refuses the divine love shatters himself or herself and is damned eternally." T.F. Torrance "Atonement The person and Work of Christ"

You know, theology aside, for everyone who hears and then rejects the gospel, there is some truth in the above.

 

[Silverhair]

Another scripture, Christs death redeems them He died for from unbelief, or what is called a vain manner of life 1 Pet 1:18-21


18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;

19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.

See that ? Redemption results in Faith in God,

If you dont believe this, you have no Faith in the Blood of Christ.

You make the statement that “Redemption results in Faith in God”

But the bible does not agree with your view does it?

Joh 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up,
Joh 3:15 that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life.

So you have it backwards, Christ said those that believe are redeemed/saved.

As I said before, you are following the logic of man. In this case it appears to be Loraine Boettner who said "A man is not saved because he believes in Christ, he believes in Christ because he is saved"

1Ti 2:5 For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus,
1Ti 2:6 who gave Himself a ransom for all,

By your stated logic “Redemption results in Faith in God” since the ransom was for all then all would have faith thus all would be saved and since we know that is not true as all do not have faith in Christ Jesus we can conclude that your logic is flawed.

The death and resurrection of Christ makes salvation available to all and those that trust in Him will be saved.

It is not the death of Christ that saves us, it is His life or as Paul said:

1Co_15:13 But if there is no resurrection of the dead, then Christ is not risen.
1Co_15:14 And if Christ is not risen, then our preaching is empty and your faith is also empty.
1Co_15:16 For if the dead do not rise, then Christ is not risen.
1Co_15:17 And if Christ is not risen, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins!

I believe what the bible says but it seems you would rather believe what some man tells you the bible says.

 

[kyredneck]

Why persons perish in Hell.

28 Marvel not at this: for the hour cometh, in which all that are in the tombs shall hear his voice,
29 and shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of judgment Jn 5

 

[Brightfame52]

You make the statement that “Redemption results in Faith in God”

But the bible does not agree with your view does it?

Joh 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up,
Joh 3:15 that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life.

So you have it backwards, Christ said those that believe are redeemed/saved.

As I said before, you are following the logic of man. In this case it appears to be Loraine Boettner who said "A man is not saved because he believes in Christ, he believes in Christ because he is saved"

1Ti 2:5 For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus,
1Ti 2:6 who gave Himself a ransom for all,

By your stated logic “Redemption results in Faith in God” since the ransom was for all then all would have faith thus all would be saved and since we know that is not true as all do not have faith in Christ Jesus we can conclude that your logic is flawed.

The death and resurrection of Christ makes salvation available to all and those that trust in Him will be saved.

It is not the death of Christ that saves us, it is His life or as Paul said:

1Co_15:13 But if there is no resurrection of the dead, then Christ is not risen.
1Co_15:14 And if Christ is not risen, then our preaching is empty and your faith is also empty.
1Co_15:16 For if the dead do not rise, then Christ is not risen.
1Co_15:17 And if Christ is not risen, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins!

I believe what the bible says but it seems you would rather believe what some man tells you the bible says.

Christ died for and redeemed them He died for from unbelief, its just one of the iniquities He redeems them from. Titus 2:14

14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

Thats why they become believers, Christ redeemed them in to faith. If you dont believe this, you are in unbelief.

 

[Brightfame52]

What about this, just to throw it out there:
"That Christ died for all humanity, and no human being can undo or escape the fact that everyone has been died for, and no one can evade, elude or avoid the fact that they are loved by God. Therefore when they do the inconceivable thing in the face of that divine love, namely, refuse it, defy it, turn away from it, that unavoidable self-giving of God is their very judgment."
And later, "Objectively then, we must think of atonement as sufficient and efficacious reality for every human being - it is such sufficient and efficacious reality that it is the rock of offense, the rock of judgement upon which the sinner who refuses the divine love shatters himself or herself and is damned eternally." T.F. Torrance "Atonement The person and Work of Christ"

You know, theology aside, for everyone who hears and then rejects the gospel, there is some truth in the above.

The ones Christ died for He redeemed them from all iniquity, like unbelief, rejection, enmity against God and so on ! Titus 2:14
14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
,

 

[Silverhair]

Christ died for and redeemed them He died for from unbelief, its just one of the iniquities He redeems them from. Titus 2:14

14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

Thats why they become believers, Christ redeemed them in to faith. If you dont believe this, you are in unbelief.

You keep saying the same thing over and over but the bible does not agree with you.

It appears that you do not have the following verses in your bible or maybe your just ignore them, not sure which. Man has to believe in / have faith in Christ Jesus before they are saved by the grace of God.

Joh 1:12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name:

Act 16:31 So they said, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved,

Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes,

Rom 3:26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

Rom 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Gal 3:24 Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

Gal 3:26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.

Eph 1:13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,

Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith,

1Co 1:21 For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe.

 

[Jesus Saves!]

Psa 139 are the thoughts of the son of God in his humanity. The last two verses in the psalm is a prayer that we all should be thankful that God answered.

This psalm is not about you and me except maybe in a spiritual way. David was a prophet and his psalms are prophesy.

One should always form their opinions in context else there are too many views from the same passage with a higher probability of error.

See Acts 2:29-30.

De

I believe God saw me imperfect before the foundation of the world. God’s son was the lamb slain before the foundation of the world because he saw our sin. Christ was perfect until our sin entered in his body.
2 Corinthians 5:21 KJVS
For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

I know his word is also spiritually discerned. Natural man can’t understand the ways of God.

 

[JD731]

De

I believe God saw me imperfect before the foundation of the world. God’s son was the lamb slain before the foundation of the world because he saw our sin. Christ was perfect until our sin entered in his body.
2 Corinthians 5:21 KJVS
For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

I know his word is also spiritually discerned. Natural man can’t understand the ways of God.

You are being silly. God does not make imperfect things. It would require an imperfect God to do that. He made the heavens and the earth in 6 days and declared his work very good. The adversary of God and man, the one we know as the devil and the Dragon and Satan, was created perfect and fell because of self will.

Ezekiel 28:13
Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.


Ezekiel 28:14-16

14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.

Additionally, sin did not enter into Jesus Christ our Lord, it was placed upon him and he became sin for us sinners, the object of.God’s indignation and wrath until it was fully spent and Our Lord Jesus was dead. The wages of sin is death.

It is repulsive to watch the Reformed take the glory from our Lord Jesus and apply it to themselves.

 

[Jesus Saves!]

Nothing silly about it. I didn’t say he made me unperfect, but he saw me that way. I agree that everything he does is perfect. What man has done is imperfect. But, he saw me unperfect before the world began. He knew we needed a savior.
Revelation 13:8 KJVS
And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

 

[Jesus Saves!]

Our sins were placed upon Him, so that through faith in Him his righteousness could be placed upon us.