Why Reformed Christians Are Vulnerable To Social Justice

[atpollard]

You're going over a lot of red herrings and responding to things I never said. God made it a national law that the rich allow the poor to come into their fields and benefit from their work, point blank.

You were leaving most of what you think you are saying ... unsaid.

 

[atpollard]

You're going over a lot of red herrings and responding to things I never said. God made it a national law that the rich allow the poor to come into their fields and benefit from their work, point blank.

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We have National and Local laws that prevent the poor from starving (which is all God’s law did).

 

[evenifigoalone]

We have National and Local laws that prevent the poor from starving (which is all God’s law did).

Did people have to pay for things like water, electricity, utilities, property tax, etc back then?

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[evenifigoalone]

You were leaving most of what you think you are saying ... unsaid.

I don't believe most of the things you're assuming I do

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[Reformed]

John Macarthur is definitely reformed and definitely opposes the social justice movement.

It depends on how define "Reformed". He is Reformed in his soteriology, but not in the rest of his theology, but he is still a man I greatly respect. He has taken bold stands on many controversial issues. He does not lack courage.

 

[Reynolds]

The problem is 90% if not more of the available jobs don't pay a living wage, or what you'd refer to as "starter jobs". But when the vast majority of jobs that are available are "starter jobs", that leaves a lot of folks high and dry. What's more, these "starter jobs" are needed in order for the market as we currently know it, to function.

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Things have changed. The money right now is in skilled labor. The GED educated man fixing the College professors HVAC unit makes more than the professor.

Trump is trying to bring back the high paying manufacturing jobs, but the Democrats are fighting him tooth and nail.

 

[Reformed]

There are radical offshoots of some Reformed churches who have gone full Marxist. To be fair, most of these churches long ago traded the true gospel for the social gospel. But it has nothing to do with being Reformed. There are many SBC churches that have done the same thing. It has less to do with Reformed or non-Reformed distinctives than it has to do with gospel abandonment.

 

[Reynolds]

It depends on how define "Reformed". He is Reformed in his soteriology, but not in the rest of his theology, but he is still a man I greatly respect. He has taken bold stands on many controversial issues. He does not lack courage.

Not arguing with you, but for my enlightenment, how is he not Reformed?

 

[evenifigoalone]

Things have changed. The money right now is in skilled labor. The GED educated man fixing the College professors HVAC unit makes more than the professor.

Trump is trying to bring back the high paying manufacturing jobs, but the Democrats are fighting him tooth and nail.

Again, there's still 90% of available jobs being below the cost of living. If the entire working population went into skilled labor, there'd be too many in those fields and their living would collectively go down. And you still have need for people to fill the jobs at grocery stores, gas stations, cab drivers, etc. I'm not in favor of significantly raising minimum wage because I don't think that's a great solution, but there's a real reason people need help getting by.

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[atpollard]

Did people have to pay for things like water, electricity, utilities, property tax, etc back then?

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Only for what they used.
Land owners paid land taxes, those that did not own land did not.
Everyone paid for all the running water, electric power and indoor plumbing that they had.

(again, I think you are trying to make a point other than the question that you are asking.).

 

[Reformed]

Not arguing with you, but for my enlightenment, how is he not Reformed?

Well, it depends on how you define Reformed. Historically, "Reformed" described a whole system of beliefs, from paedobaptism to Calvinism. If you were to talk to some folks in historically Reformed churches they will use phrases such as "Big "R" Reformed" or "Truly Reformed" or "TR" for short. In the 1960s the Reformed Baptists gained traction from a movement in Carlisle, PA. While the term has caught on, Calvinistic Baptists are not really "Big R" Reformed. They reject paedobaptism as well as the Westminster Standards. They also reject Presbyterian church polity, which is another aspect of "Big R" Reformed. Many Reformed Baptist do hold to Covenant Theology, but their differences with Presbyterian "Big R" Reformed churches are pronounced. The only thing "Reformed" about John MacArthur is his soteriology. If you ask many Presbyterians and Dutch Reformed whether any Baptist can be Reformed, you will get a big fat "Pfft."

 

[evenifigoalone]

Only for what they used.
Land owners paid land taxes, those that did not own land did not.
Everyone paid for all the running water, electric power and indoor plumbing that they had.

(again, I think you are trying to make a point other than the question that you are asking.).

Thing is, these days we need electricity, utilities, and the like in order to function. For example, just to get a job I need reliable transportation, I need a phone so that my potential employer can contact me, I need electricity to charge that phone, and I need access to the internet in order to even APPLY for jobs. I also need running water in order to keep up my hygiene and grooming so that I have a chance at a job.
We're dependent on that stuff to survive now, which is why it's so severely difficult for people who are homeless to get a job or get out of their homeless situation at all

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[AustinC]

It was obedience, but it was also a mandated law.

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By God, which very few actually obeyed.
Has God commanded that all money you earn, over the average, must be given to a general pool that is then given to those who did not meet the average?
I would say, no.

 

[AustinC]

Thing is, these days we need electricity, utilities, and the like in order to function. For example, just to get a job I need reliable transportation, I need a phone so that my potential employer can contact me, I need electricity to charge that phone, and I need access to the internet in order to even APPLY for jobs. I also need running water in order to keep up my hygiene and grooming so that I have a chance at a job.
We're dependent on that stuff to survive now, which is why it's so severely difficult for people who are homeless to get a job or get out of their homeless situation at all

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Is God incapable of supplying all our needs?
Or do we demand that someone other than God should do this?

 

[evenifigoalone]

Is God incapable of supplying all our needs?
Or do we demand that someone other than God should do this?

Is God capable of feeding the poor, or should God demand that Christians give to the poor and needy? Oh wait.....

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[evenifigoalone]

By God, which very few actually obeyed.
Has God commanded that all money you earn, over the average, must be given to a general pool that is then given to those who did not meet the average?
I would say, no.

I would think the principle is the same

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[Reynolds]

Well, it depends on how you define Reformed. Historically, "Reformed" described a whole system of beliefs, from paedobaptism to Calvinism. If you were to talk to some folks in historically Reformed churches they will use phrases such as "Big "R" Reformed" or "Truly Reformed" or "TR" for short. In the 1960s the Reformed Baptists gained traction from a movement in Carlisle, PA. While the term has caught on, Calvinistic Baptists are not really "Big R" Reformed. They reject paedobaptism as well as the Westminster Standards. They also reject Presbyterian church polity, which is another aspect of "Big R" Reformed. Many Reformed Baptist do hold to Covenant Theology, but their differences with Presbyterian "Big R" Reformed churches are pronounced. The only thing "Reformed" about John MacArthur is his soteriology. If you ask many Presbyterians and Dutch Reformed whether any Baptist can be Reformed, you will get a big fat "Pfft."

Agreed. He is as "reformed" as most Calvinist Baptists who Call themselves "reformed"?

 

[Reformed]

Agreed. He is as "reformed" as most Calvinist Baptists who Call themselves "reformed"?

Speaking only for myself, I am A) A Calvinist B) Covenant Theologian (which means I am not a Dispensationalist) C) Confessional (1689 Second London Baptist Confession of Faith). That is more Reformed than John MacArthur. But this is not a contest of bona fides. I agree with many things John MacArthur teaches. I just disagree with him on eschatology and Dispensationalism.

 

[AustinC]

Is God capable of feeding the poor, or should God demand that Christians give to the poor and needy? Oh wait.....

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Where does God tell Christians that they must give everything above the median average to the government so the government can give it to those who didn't reach the median average?

You do realize that Christians give to non-profit organizations at a much higher rate than any other group in the world... don't you???

 

[evenifigoalone]

Where does God tell Christians that they must give everything above the median average to the government so the government can give it to those who didn't reach the median average?

You do realize that Christians give to non-profit organizations at a much higher rate than any other group in the world... don't you???

If the poor's needs aren't being met by the church, what other recourse do they have but to get a lifeline from the government? If you want the church to provide it all--healthcare, food, utilities assistance, mental health care, medical care--then you need something much more large-scale than the local food kitchen.

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