Why Reformed Christians Are Vulnerable To Social Justice

[evenifigoalone]

I suggest you start at Matthew 1 and read through Revelation 22 and observe what God says and what the church does.
Not only myself, but atpollard, have expressed this to you.

Matthew 1 is a geneology and has no application here. Neither does Revelation 22.
Or are you suggesting I re-read the entire NT? What a lazy suggestion. If you have scriptures to support your claim, then show them to me. But I'm guessing you do not. Ok then, case closed. Good bye.

 

[evenifigoalone]

I will, thank you

I've looked it up in multiple sources, and all have a definition or even two extra where oppression can be an emotional state or being in a difficult situation.

 

[evenifigoalone]

I have work now, so. Catch y'all in a few hours.

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[AustinC]

Matthew 1 is a geneology and has no application here. Neither does Revelation 22.
Or are you suggesting I re-read the entire NT? What a lazy suggestion. If you have scriptures to support your claim, then show them to me. But I'm guessing you do not. Ok then, case closed. Good bye.

You're being lazy. Just read the Bible. Did Jesus come to all the Gentiles or to the chosen people whom His Father has given him? Did Paul tell the churches to raise money to support all people in the world? Every reference is to how we, the body of Christ, support the rest of the body. This is why the Church is not responsible for assisting the world.
Let's go deeper. You are responsible for caring for your parents, especially if one has died and the other is a widow/widower. The Church comes to help if there is no family doing their job.
What you cannot find is any place where the church is told to support all humans who are in poverty. It's not in scripture.

 

[evenifigoalone]

You're being lazy. Just read the Bible. Did Jesus come to all the Gentiles or to the chosen people whom His Father has given him? Did Paul tell the churches to raise money to support all people in the world? Every reference is to how we, the body of Christ, support the rest of the body. This is why the Church is not responsible for assisting the world.
Let's go deeper. You are responsible for caring for your parents, especially if one has died and the other is a widow/widower. The Church comes to help if there is no family doing their job.
What you cannot find is any place where the church is told to support all humans who are in poverty. It's not in scripture.

That's not how debate works, son. You make a claim, it's on YOU to back it up. And if you're so confident that your position is in scripture, you could point to at least one verse. But obviously you cannot, otherwise you would have brought it up by now.

We're done. I won't be responding to your nonsense unless and until you bring me relevant scripture.

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[evenifigoalone]

Bible verses about God’s commands to care for the poor

Leviticus 19:9-10 (NIV)

“When you reap the harvest of your land, do not reap to the very edges of your field or gather the gleanings of your harvest. Do not go over your vineyard a second time or pick up the grapes that have fallen. Leave them for the poor and the foreigner. I am the LORD your God.”

Deuteronomy 15:7 (ESV)

“If among you, one of your brothers should become poor, in any of your towns within your land that the LORD your God is giving you, you shall not harden your heart or shut your hand against your poor brother.”

Proverbs 31:8-9 (NIV)

“Speak up for those who cannot speak for themselves, for the rights of all who are destitute. Speak up and judge fairly; defend the rights of the poor and needy.”

Luke 12:33-34 (NIV)

“Sell your possessions and give to the poor. Provide purses for yourselves that will not wear out, a treasure in heaven that will never fail, where no thief comes near and no moth destroys. For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.”

1 Timothy 6:18 (NIV)

“Command them to do good, to be rich in good deeds, and to be generous and willing to share.”

Copied from: What does the Bible say about poverty? | World Vision

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[evenifigoalone]

Psalm 41:1

“Blessed is he who considers the poor; The Lord will deliver him in time of trouble.”

“…He who has mercy on the poor, happy is he.” Prov. 14:21

“He who has a generous eye will be blessed, for he gives of his bread to the poor.” Prov. 22:9

Proverbs 14:31

“He who oppresses the poor reproaches his Maker, but he who honors him has mercy on the needy.”

Proverbs 22:22-23

“Do not rob the poor because he is poor, nor oppress the afflicted at the gate; For the Lord will plead their cause, and plunder the soul of those who plunder them.”

Zechariah 7:10

“Do not oppress the widow or the fatherless, the alien or the poor. Let none of you plan evil in his heart against his brother.”

Luke 14:12-14

“Then He [Jesus] also said to him who invited Him, ‘When you give a dinner or a supper, do not ask your friends, your brothers, your relatives, nor rich neighbors, lest they also invite you back, and you be repaid. But when you give a feast, invite the poor, the maimed, the lame the blind. And you will be blessed, because they cannot repay you…”

Galatians 2:10

“They desired only that we should remember the poor, the very thing which I also was eager to do.”



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[church mouse guy]

Psalm 41:1

“Blessed is he who considers the poor; The Lord will deliver him in time of trouble.”

“…He who has mercy on the poor, happy is he.” Prov. 14:21

“He who has a generous eye will be blessed, for he gives of his bread to the poor.” Prov. 22:9

Proverbs 14:31

“He who oppresses the poor reproaches his Maker, but he who honors him has mercy on the needy.”

Proverbs 22:22-23

“Do not rob the poor because he is poor, nor oppress the afflicted at the gate; For the Lord will plead their cause, and plunder the soul of those who plunder them.”

Zechariah 7:10

“Do not oppress the widow or the fatherless, the alien or the poor. Let none of you plan evil in his heart against his brother.”

Luke 14:12-14

“Then He [Jesus] also said to him who invited Him, ‘When you give a dinner or a supper, do not ask your friends, your brothers, your relatives, nor rich neighbors, lest they also invite you back, and you be repaid. But when you give a feast, invite the poor, the maimed, the lame the blind. And you will be blessed, because they cannot repay you…”

Galatians 2:10

“They desired only that we should remember the poor, the very thing which I also was eager to do.”



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The problem is the party of the Confederacy, slavery, KKK, poll tax, Jim Crow and abortion: the Democrats. They don't donate to world vision and they want socialism, which history teaches makes everyone poorer. And their candidate is the very uninspiring basement-dweller Joe Biden. Obama seems to have abandoned Biden, too. No one wants to pay for more welfare.

 

[rlvaughn]

The problem with this is that the OP does not establish a definition of social justice. Therefore, it could be that the OP has a definition of justice that is culturally based, not biblically based.
It is incumbent on the OP to establish the biblical definition of justice so that the discussion can revolve around that definition.

I agree. I enjoyed the article, thought it had some good points, but failed in defining what he meant by "social justice" (and even "Reformed Christians"). The article would benefit with a rewriting considering clarifying those things.

 

[Revmitchell]

Psalm 41:1

“Blessed is he who considers the poor; The Lord will deliver him in time of trouble.”

“…He who has mercy on the poor, happy is he.” Prov. 14:21

“He who has a generous eye will be blessed, for he gives of his bread to the poor.” Prov. 22:9

Proverbs 14:31

“He who oppresses the poor reproaches his Maker, but he who honors him has mercy on the needy.”

Proverbs 22:22-23

“Do not rob the poor because he is poor, nor oppress the afflicted at the gate; For the Lord will plead their cause, and plunder the soul of those who plunder them.”

Zechariah 7:10

“Do not oppress the widow or the fatherless, the alien or the poor. Let none of you plan evil in his heart against his brother.”

Luke 14:12-14

“Then He [Jesus] also said to him who invited Him, ‘When you give a dinner or a supper, do not ask your friends, your brothers, your relatives, nor rich neighbors, lest they also invite you back, and you be repaid. But when you give a feast, invite the poor, the maimed, the lame the blind. And you will be blessed, because they cannot repay you…”

Galatians 2:10

“They desired only that we should remember the poor, the very thing which I also was eager to do.”



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And yet none of those verses command doing it via government force.

 

[AustinC]

That's not how debate works, son. You make a claim, it's on YOU to back it up. And if you're so confident that your position is in scripture, you could point to at least one verse. But obviously you cannot, otherwise you would have brought it up by now.

We're done. I won't be responding to your nonsense unless and until you bring me relevant scripture.

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I could, but you wouldn't accept it anyhow. Instead, you are supporting a socialist collective that has zero support in scripture.

 

[AustinC]

Bible verses about God’s commands to care for the poor

Leviticus 19:9-10 (NIV)

“When you reap the harvest of your land, do not reap to the very edges of your field or gather the gleanings of your harvest. Do not go over your vineyard a second time or pick up the grapes that have fallen. Leave them for the poor and the foreigner. I am the LORD your God.”

Deuteronomy 15:7 (ESV)

“If among you, one of your brothers should become poor, in any of your towns within your land that the LORD your God is giving you, you shall not harden your heart or shut your hand against your poor brother.”

Proverbs 31:8-9 (NIV)

“Speak up for those who cannot speak for themselves, for the rights of all who are destitute. Speak up and judge fairly; defend the rights of the poor and needy.”

Luke 12:33-34 (NIV)

“Sell your possessions and give to the poor. Provide purses for yourselves that will not wear out, a treasure in heaven that will never fail, where no thief comes near and no moth destroys. For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.”

1 Timothy 6:18 (NIV)

“Command them to do good, to be rich in good deeds, and to be generous and willing to share.”

Copied from: What does the Bible say about poverty? | World Vision

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All commands to the chosen people of God, not to the whole world, which is my point.

 

[AustinC]

Psalm 41:1

“Blessed is he who considers the poor; The Lord will deliver him in time of trouble.”

“…He who has mercy on the poor, happy is he.” Prov. 14:21

“He who has a generous eye will be blessed, for he gives of his bread to the poor.” Prov. 22:9

Proverbs 14:31

“He who oppresses the poor reproaches his Maker, but he who honors him has mercy on the needy.”

Proverbs 22:22-23

“Do not rob the poor because he is poor, nor oppress the afflicted at the gate; For the Lord will plead their cause, and plunder the soul of those who plunder them.”

Zechariah 7:10

“Do not oppress the widow or the fatherless, the alien or the poor. Let none of you plan evil in his heart against his brother.”

Luke 14:12-14

“Then He [Jesus] also said to him who invited Him, ‘When you give a dinner or a supper, do not ask your friends, your brothers, your relatives, nor rich neighbors, lest they also invite you back, and you be repaid. But when you give a feast, invite the poor, the maimed, the lame the blind. And you will be blessed, because they cannot repay you…”

Galatians 2:10

“They desired only that we should remember the poor, the very thing which I also was eager to do.”



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I'm not seeing a legal command. I do see the general truth to be kind to the poor. But, no Christian would disagree.
Yet, you are advocating a socialist collective, which is nowhere presented in scripture.

 

[evenifigoalone]

I could, but you wouldn't accept it anyhow. Instead, you are supporting a socialist collective that has zero support in scripture.

Copping out,eh. That's because you don't have an answer.

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[evenifigoalone]

And yet none of those verses command doing it via government force.

"Let the poor glean from your fields and vineyards" being national law sure sounds like a government mandate to me

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[evenifigoalone]

I'm not seeing a legal command. I do see the general truth to be kind to the poor. But, no Christian would disagree.
Yet, you are advocating a socialist collective, which is nowhere presented in scripture.

Still waiting on that scripture.

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[evenifigoalone]

All commands to the chosen people of God, not to the whole world, which is my point.

Nah, the verses apply to "the stranger and foreigners" as well, so no dice my guy.

Still waiting on that scripture.

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[AustinC]

"Let the poor glean from your fields and vineyards" being national law sure sounds like a government mandate to me

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Nope, it's not, even if you imagine it is.

 

[AustinC]

Nah, the verses apply to "the stranger and foreigners" as well, so no dice my guy.

Still waiting on that scripture.

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Of course you are. Yet, as you wait, you cannot provide even one verse that is universal to the world while all the verses apply to the chosen people of God.

 

[AustinC]

All for the church:

Galatians 6:2
"Carry each other’s burdens, and in this way you will fulfill the law of Christ."
Hebrews 13:16
"And do not forget to do good and to share with others, for with such sacrifices God is pleased."
John 15:12
"My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you."
Romans 12:13
"Share with the Lord’s people who are in need. Practice hospitality."
Philippians 2:4
"Let each of you look not only to his own interests, but also to the interests of others."
James 2:14-17
"Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. If one of you says to them, 'Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,' but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead."
Hebrews 6:10
"God is not unjust; he will not forget your work and the love you have shown him as you have helped his people and continue to help them."

Why do you support socialist collectivism?