Why Should I Feel Threatened by Gay Marriage?

[TisHerself]

Originally posted by Dragoon68:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by TisHerself:
Just because there are no laws against something, doesn't mean society sanctions it!

That might be true in some sense but, in this case, the agenda is to make laws that do sanction conduct which isn't right according to God Almighty.

Patrick </font>[/QUOTE]The only thing a gay marriage changes is laws as they pertain to taxes and insurance and such. Just because two men can legally be joined as partners does not make them anything more than a homosexual couple. And guess what? They can't make babies together, so why all the worry? It doesn't degrade the sactity of marriage that God created in any way!

BTW - Did you know the divorce rate amongst Republicans is astronomical? So much for family values, eh?

 

[Dragoon68]

Originally posted by npc:
Then what are you worried about?

I worry that views such as you have might become more widely accepted and lead to changes in civil law that would impact us all.

So which sinners should be allowed to raise kids and which shouldn't?

None of them that would cause deviate sexual behavior - homosexual or hetrosexual - to be forced upon or encouraged upon the children.

Being sinners is a trait we all have. Working against it is a trait Christians should have.

Patrick

 

[Bro. James Reed]

BTW - Did you know the divorce rate amongst Republicans is astronomical? So much for family values, eh?

Hey, I can pull figures out of thin air too.

Did you know Democrats are much more likely to eat tofu and drink soy milk? So much for being in touch with middle America, huh?

Would you care to site a source for your ramblings, or would you rather we continue with the namecalling hogwash?

 

[npc]

I worry that views such as you have might become more widely accepted and lead to changes in civil law that would impact us all.

Which changes in civil law would impact us all? Legal recognition of gay marriage? Or do you think we'll all be forced to find a gay partner?

None of them that would cause deviate sexual behavior - homosexual or hetrosexual - to be forced upon or encouraged upon the children.

You have yet to give a reason to single out homosexuality among many sins. I thought a desire to see such reasoning was implied in my question.

 

[Dragoon68]

Originally posted by TisHerself:
The only thing a gay marriage changes is laws as they pertain to taxes and insurance and such. Just because two men can legally be joined as partners does not make them anything more than a homosexual couple. And guess what? They can't make babies together, so why all the worry? It doesn't degrade the sactity of marriage that God created in any way!

Wrong except for the part about making babies!

BTW - Did you know the divorce rate amongst Republicans is astronomical? So much for family values, eh?

Actually I don't know that to be a fact. I do know that divorce is a big problem that effects a lot of families. I won't "bite", for now, on the obvious counterpoint!

Patrick

 

[Dragoon68]

Originally posted by npc:
Which changes in civil law would impact us all? Legal recognition of gay marriage? Or do you think we'll all be forced to find a gay partner?

Any civil law that forces regonition and affords legal rights to gay "marriages" is a threat to true marriage and a big stepping stone to subsequent demands for more "rights".

You have yet to give a reason to single out homosexuality among many sins. I thought a desire to see such reasoning was implied in my question.

Sure I have as have others, and supremely important, as does the Holy Bible.

Patrick

 

[Dragoon68]

I've got to go mow the grass!

Patrick

 

[Bro. James Reed]

BTW, are either of you, npc or TH, in favor of legalizing prostitution? polygamy? cocaine?

None of these things, in and of themselves, hurt other people, yet society has deemed it necessary to protect ourselves from these things. Why is that? Could it be because we want to at least keep some sort of resemblance to family values alive in this country after so many have been thrown away?

The divorce rate among Americans, not just Republicans, is too high. There ought to be more stringent divorce laws. In days of old, one had to give a reason to get a divorce...one of several reasons listed in the filing. Now, all you have to put is irreconcilable differences.

You can see firsthand how the relaxing of divorce laws has shot up the rate of divorce in this country. It also has much to do with what is portrayed by modern society as being acceptable.

Mark my words, there is coming a day when the gay lobby will be suing to have all remarks against homsexuality removed from our churches and our bibles. It will be construed as hate speech towards them.

When we start relaxing some laws against homosexuality, they will bring more suits in to finish the rest of them.

We saw that in just the past few years.

When the Supreme Court shot down the Texas sodomy law gays all over the country saw a victory, so they brought the lawsuits about gay marriage, and then that whole fiasco started.

The bottom line is, gays have all of the same rights we do. We have all of the same rights gays do. If they can't live with the same rights that we have, rather than trying to create their own group of special rights, then they should just move to Canada or Spain or some place which will accomodate them. We are not going to have it in this country so long as we are the majority.

 

[npc]

Any civil law that forces regonition and affords legal rights to gay "marriages" is a threat to true marriage

Argumentum ad nauseum.

and a big stepping stone to subsequent demands for more "rights".

Slippery slope fallacy.

Sure I have as have others, and supremely important, as does the Holy Bible.

No, you didn't. Do you not understand the question? I'll try to rephrase it: why should homosexual marriage be illegal, but not marriage between atheists, criminals, or people who've had premarital sex?

BTW, are either of you, npc or TH, in favor of legalizing prostitution? polygamy? cocaine?

Prostitution: sure. It's not my responsibility what mutually consenting adults do together.
Polygamy: undecided. It hinges on whether women truly are inevitably abused in such relationships, and I don't know enough to say.
Cocaine: no, because people addicted to it have a penchant for harming others.

The bottom line is, gays have all of the same rights we do. We have all of the same rights gays do. If they can't live with the same rights that we have, rather than trying to create their own group of special rights

Uhh, by your logic, they're pushing for the same rights for all of us.

then they should just move to Canada or Spain or some place which will accomodate them.

I know I'd become an expatriot if ever my country had a rule I disagreed with, rather than working within the system to change it!

We are not going to have it in this country so long as we are the majority.

Who is "we"?

 

[ASLANSPAL]

What if all the gays decided one day to hold a
tax revolt or leave the military because they
were tired of discrimination or hold the same
civil rights privileges we have.


I think we as citizens can respect that and outside the sanctity of church ceremony provide creative ways so that they can have civil rights.

I think one would be of the state and the other
the church.

We would still uphold our church ceremony and deep
spiritual belief of Christians joined together
are one.

How can you really deny a gay soldier coming home
from Iraq his or her civil rights!

It really all boils down to what will be revealed
in the future and how the brick one by one by one
is placed into the wall...that these people are
born that way ..as I said earlier it is not a popular position to take but I believe grace will
be revealed.

And with that hope...these people in the future
I believe will be able to genetically take
genetic therapy in the form of liquid or injections and one day they wake up not gay anymore but again that is a choice they would have
to make...imho I think a majority would opt for
the therapy as it is now they feel trapped between
two worlds with enormous pressure and judgement.

In this country on the civil side and even in the
church we must protect the minority and the weak
or those trapped between a world they had no
control over.

sincerly
Aslanspal

 

[TisHerself]

Originally posted by Dragoon68:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by TisHerself:
What is that? To hate those things you do not understand?

No, so they'll understand what God hates, why He does, and they're obligation as followers of Christ to abide by what He says is right not by what we think is right.

Patrick </font>[/QUOTE]Where in the scripture does it say it is our obligation to make sure there are no homosexuals? Or murderers? Or rapists? Did God give us that much power? If so, someone took mine and I demand it back!

 

[TisHerself]

Originally posted by ASLANSPAL:
What if all the gays decided one day to hold a
tax revolt or leave the military because they
were tired of discrimination or hold the same
civil rights privileges we have.


I think we as citizens can respect that and outside the sanctity of church ceremony provide creative ways so that they can have civil rights.

I think one would be of the state and the other
the church.

We would still uphold our church ceremony and deep
spiritual belief of Christians joined together
are one.

How can you really deny a gay soldier coming home
from Iraq his or her civil rights!

It really all boils down to what will be revealed
in the future and how the brick one by one by one
is placed into the wall...that these people are
born that way ..as I said earlier it is not a popular position to take but I believe grace will
be revealed.

And with that hope...these people in the future
I believe will be able to genetically take
genetic therapy in the form of liquid or injections and one day they wake up not gay anymore but again that is a choice they would have
to make...imho I think a majority would opt for
the therapy as it is now they feel trapped between
two worlds with enormous pressure and judgement.

In this country on the civil side and even in the
church we must protect the minority and the weak
or those trapped between a world they had no
control over.

sincerly
Aslanspal

That's right, Aslanspal! Why would anyone make the choice to be persecuted and hated so much? I'm not convinced that God didn't make them that
way on purpose to see how we reacted to balancing his laws with the reality of some of our brothers and sisters being gay.

I don't remember Jesus being mean to anyone, especially not a sinner. How is that a way to win them over to Chrisianity. If it were me, I'd say, heck no! Who would want to belong to a group of self-righteous haters!

There must be a balance. God never intended for us to hate one another.

 

[Dragoon68]

Originally posted by TisHerself:
That's right, Aslanspal! Why would anyone make the choice to be persecuted and hated so much? I'm not convinced that God didn't make them that
way on purpose to see how we reacted to balancing his laws with the reality of some of our brothers and sisters being gay.

I don't remember Jesus being mean to anyone, especially not a sinner. How is that a way to win them over to Chrisianity. If it were me, I'd say, heck no! Who would want to belong to a group of self-righteous haters!

There must be a balance. God never intended for us to hate one another.

No one, so far, but you has really mentioned anything about being hateful to homosexuals. You're expecting that hatred to come out but it hasn't. We don't have to hate homosexuals to hate the sin they're committing and to stand firmly against it. It's because we love our God, His design and commands, and our fellow man that we must stand against homosexual behavior and most certainly against gay "marriage". It has nothing to do with hating the persons involved.

Patrick

 

[Bro. James Reed]

I'm not convinced that God didn't make them that
way on purpose to see how we reacted to balancing his laws with the reality of some of our brothers and sisters being gay.

So, now you think that God is the author of sin?

 

[Dragoon68]

Originally posted by ASLANSPAL:
What if all the gays decided one day to hold a tax revolt or leave the military because they were tired of discrimination or hold the same civil rights privileges we have.

I think we as citizens can respect that and outside the sanctity of church ceremony provide creative ways so that they can have civil rights.

I think one would be of the state and the other the church.

We would still uphold our church ceremony and deep spiritual belief of Christians joined together are one.

How can you really deny a gay soldier coming home from Iraq his or her civil rights!

It really all boils down to what will be revealed in the future and how the brick one by one by one is placed into the wall...that these people are born that way ..as I said earlier it is not a popular position to take but I believe grace will be revealed.

And with that hope...these people in the future I believe will be able to genetically take genetic therapy in the form of liquid or injections and one day they wake up not gay anymore but again that is a choice they would have to make...imho I think a majority would opt for the therapy as it is now they feel trapped between two worlds with enormous pressure and judgement.

In this country on the civil side and even in the church we must protect the minority and the weak or those trapped between a world they had no control over.

sincerly
Aslanspal

Your arguments make no sense, ASLANSPAL, relative to the issue of whether or not gay "marriage" should be permitted.

Any citizen that held a "tax revolt" should be held accountable for it because all are equal before the law.

Being a soldier doesn't excuse a person from the law of the land nor, more importantly, God's laws. Soldiers serve their country because it's a duty to do so not to earn any special rights or to justify conduct otherwise unacceptable. That argument is another favorite tactic of liberals.

Homosexuals are not "victims". That's the typical liberal line with everything wherein no one is responsible and accountable for their conduct. We're all born with a tendency to sin - born sinners - but it our fault that we engage in it. Whether homosexuals are born such or acquire such tendencies doesn't excuse the behavior.

No "civil rights" are denied by forbidding gay "marriage". That's the line the liberals want to push along with the homosexuals. They disparately want it to become a "civil rights" issue but it's not.

Patrick

 

[Dragoon68]

Originally posted by npc:
Argumentum ad nauseum.

Yes, that's how I feel about your comments as well!

Patrick

 

[Dragoon68]

Originally posted by TisHerself:
Where in the scripture does it say it is our obligation to make sure there are no homosexuals? Or murderers? Or rapists? Did God give us that much power? If so, someone took mine and I demand it back!

Demand all you want but God ordained civil government and, with respect to homosexuality, made it very clear that it's a bad thing. It's our duty, as Christians, to oppose all sin while recognizing that we are all sinners. Doing so does not imply violence or hatred of sinners for if that were the case we would all be hated violently. Doing so, however, does require us to hate all manner of sin in our earthly lives. It's our duty to enact, enforce, and support a basic framework of civil law for the execution of justice among mankind on earth. That law can not cover every detail of daily life and must avoid becoming religious law subject to the shortcomings of mankind. But part of that justice is to uphold the basic family structure including the sanctity of marriage and to resist all manner of corruption against it. That's the basis for civil and criminal family law. Homosexual relationships certainly should not enjoy any protection under the law because they are a serious and vile corruption of the family structure that was designed by God for all mankind. That is why God so clearly left in His word the warnings about it and admonitions against it.

Patrick

 

[KenH]

Originally posted by TisHerself:
Where in the scripture does it say it is our obligation to make sure there are no homosexuals? Or murderers? Or rapists? Did God give us that much power?

Hey, TH, a philosophical question, if you will. Do you consider yourself to be a libertarian?

 

[ASLANSPAL]

I believe that "marriage" should be solely owned
by the Church....but that separation on the
Caesar side which has nothing to do with the
church could creatively give them more protections since they do pay taxes and go and
fight wars.

I think 2 years from now as Science continues
to put proof on top of proof that gays are
born the way they are.It has not reached a
tipping point but my risk is one day it will
and their hope is to gain help back from science
through a sovereign graceful God for help in
the form of genetic therapy.

I think two years if we revisited this issue
we will know more ..it is not going backwards
in the science ..especially in the field of
genetics..we have just scratched the surface.

I am sincerely offering hope and not fear.

 

[npc]

Originally posted by Dragoon68:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by npc:
Argumentum ad nauseum.

Yes, that's how I feel about your comments as well!

Patrick </font>[/QUOTE]Sorry, that's not how debating works. If you think I'm committing a logical fallacy then tell me where. If you're right, I'll try to fix it.