Why start an online BB ministerial academy?

[Plain Old Bill]

I think that is generally a good idea with a few exceptions which I will state here:
On the subjects of Doctrine and Theology I would like to see:
Bible Doctrine1&2 1yr
Theology 1&2 1yr
Then I would like to see a deeper dig on theology,perhaps 4 twelve week intensive courses broken down into 4 theological subjects.
I would also like to see 4 semesters of greek.

This is a little intense but we are attempting a First Class Education.
I have printed out parts of the MBTS catalogue and I have several others on hand.

What do you guys think?

 

[StefanM]

If we're going toward a heavy on practicality, lighter on theory program, the four semesters of Greek will be tough to fit in.

Isn't Doctrine and Theology basically the same thing?

8 courses in theology/doctrine might be tough to fit in a practicum-oriented program.

It all depends on the approach.

I think we need to hammer down what is our true purpose. The mission statement obviously isn't clear enough as it stands.

Which is our main focus? The Practice of Ministry or Theological Knowledge?

This could affect the nomenclature of the program. Is it a Diploma/Degree/Certificate in Ministry or in Theology?

All of these questions have to be answered before we can hammer down the courses.

 

[JamesBell]

I know that I have been excited to see the discussions around this "institute" because of the focus on theology. There are many DL opportunities out there, but they are all lacking. I think that the intent to focus on theology and practical matters is what seperates this venture from the masses.

Stefan, as for which is the nature-- I think you're trying to limit too much. I see it as being a blend of the two, neglecting neither. By placing too much weight on either one, we miss the goal that started this venture.

 

[StefanM]

I'm not trying to limit it; I'm trying to figure out what is the main focus. There would be other focuses, and we wouldn't have to neglect either ministry or theology. Unless you have an exact even split with respect to course offerings, one is undoubtedly going to be at least slightly emphasized more.

I just want to know that if the chopping block comes down...which would we cut...a theology class or a ministry class?

 

[JamesBell]

Stefan, I hope that "if" never comes to pass. There are people in need of each, and they can't always be neatly seperated. I can see a significant amount of ministry training in a theology class, and vice versa. However, if it did come to pass, I personally would vote to keep the theology class over a ministry class. It seems to me that it is easier to get the "how to" stuff from the local church-- where people are already doing. I see a lack of church members (myself included) with a deep base of theological education.

Of course, I can't pretend to speak for the others involved in this thread. There is a wealth of knowledge that is quite surprising to me. They would be better equipped to answer the question. I am simply hoping to help, and gain, from the project.

 

[StefanM]

OK, it seems to me that your vision is a program which emphasizes theology but teaches it in a practical manner?

So theological education is the goal, and practical application is the method? Am I reading you correctly? I'm just trying to make sure I don't misread anyone's posts again

.

 

[Plain Old Bill]

We want both.We want to have our cake and eat it too.If the program is more than 60 sem hrs that is ok.If it took 63,66,69, or 72 hours that would be ok. I don't think the trick is going to be developing the program.The hard part is going to be getting enough qualified instructors.But we have time on our side.We don't have a deadline and things are progessing nicely.

 

[StefanM]

OK, then perhaps we should establish how many hours of straight theology should be required for this program.

I'll start.

Since the program wants to have a strong emphasis on theology, I'd say that it needs at least 15-16 hours of theology classes.

We probably need at least 6 hours of general education to familiarize the students with grammar/comp and computers.

I think at least 6 hours of biblical studies beyond the survey courses would be nice.

I think the program should have at least 15-16 hours of ministry praxis as well.

[ August 04, 2005, 10:32 AM: Message edited by: StefanM ]

 

[Rhetorician]

POB,

But, I beg to differ with you on the "getting enough qualified instructors."

When the kinks are worked out, you get far enough along to need instructors; then they will be sent by the Lord. There are nearly enough credentialed people who have an MA minimum from an accredited college, university, or seminary to take on the load just now. We don't have any students yet. And it remains to be seen if we have a market for what we are trying to sell.

I know for a fact, by email and pm, that there are some good folk out there wanting to help but are laying back to see what the Lord (and the promoters of the program) will do.

It also seems to me that the tone and tenor of the public discussions may have caused other good contributors to take a "wait and see" posture.

Forwhatit'sworth!

sdg!

rd

 

[Rhetorician]

Please go and consider prayerfully at least six (6) AA programs--wherever--before you begin to formulate anything?!

I believe it will open our eyes!

sdg!

rd

 

[Rhetorician]

Does anyone know about or is anyone working on:

1. Getting a JD on board pro bono for consultation?

2. Contacting state boards of education to find out about some level of accreditation or certification? What might be needed or done etc?

sdg!

rd

 

[UZThD]

I have adopted a wait and watch attitude in re to the Institute. Nevertheless I would like to mention what is my understanding of the


Apostolic Benchmarks for Theological Instruction:

1. For believers in general:

a. will be able to hold to the apostolic Tradition by understanding the Theology of the apostles (1 Cor 11:2;2 Thess 2:15)

b. Will be able to remain in the Apostolic Teaching by understanding the doctrine of Christ. (2 Jo 9)

c. will be able to evaluate belief systems by understanding the true doctrine (Rom 16:17)

d. will be able to walk a life pleasing to Lord by learning correct theology (Col 1:10;4:6)


For those in ministry:

a. will save themselves and those in their care by immersing themselves in the discipline of true doctrine (1 Tim 4:13-15)

b. will prepare those in their charge to resist being led away by false teaching (Eph 4:13-15)

c. will use the apostolic, fixed theological norm to convincingly exort believers and to expose deniers of true doctrine . (Tt 1:9)

d. using Paul's example, will spend themselves in teaching ALL of God's truth so as to prevent the wolves of destruction from drawing disciples away to their false teaching, (Acts 20:17-30

I have exegeted much in re to these bench marks having written a paper on them. I think my interpretations and applications are sound.

IMO few Christians are prepared to meet their benchmarks, and one reason why is some ministers have not yet met theirs.

Therefore, IMO, a school which intends to train Christians and to even prepare some for ministry fails if it does not enable students to meet these bench marks.

UZ

 

[StefanM]

Those benchmarks seem appropriate to me.

 

[Plain Old Bill]

I will be happy to do that.As a matter of fact I have looked into several already.
You all know my general outline.It is not inflexable or without some give.The main purpose of my input curicculum wise has been in the form of suggestion and affirmation of what others have said.
I would be pleased if some of the people who are hanging back would get with you and UZThD on the curicculum and discuss it by PM's out of public view for a while.You all are wiser heads than I.

 

[Plain Old Bill]

UZThD,
I could'nt agree more.

Rhetorician,
I am waiting for a response by mail from the State Dept. of Ed. in Washington.
I have,nt found a pro bono lawyer yet.

 

[StefanM]

Perhaps we should incorporate those benchmarks into a Program Objective statement or something similar?

 

[Dr. Bob]

Aside - Do you all realize the unbelievable diversity of doctrine shown in those who have expressed interest in such an educational program?

Even though we are all "baptist" (little "b" because even there we see divergence of positions so vast that what is taught/who/how will be a nightmare.

The further I read on the forum, the less I see this as anything more than wishful thinking. Sorry to be a wet blanket.

 

[UZThD]

forgive my active mind, and wishful thinking, please.

THEOLOGY
-------


8 sem units , or quarter equiv, broken into 8 stand alone topics. Each topic as equiv of 1 sem unit is 60 clock hrs of study. Each topic separately graded.

topics =

1.BIBLE,

2. GOD,

3.PERSON of CHRIST I,

4.PERSON OF CHRIST II,

5. PERSON AND WORK HS,

6. SALVATION

7. CHURCH,

8. FUTURE EVENTS.

Method or steps of instruction illustrated with topic 1.

1. BIBLE
---------

SUBTOPICS

a. CANON,

(1) 40pp reading on the Canon, = 2hrs

(2) discuss by email the reading w- the prof and in that pass verbal, informal quiz = 1 hr

(3) write a 150 word paper on the Canon = 7 hrs

(4) answer 1 probe question on that paper = 1 hr


sub total=11 clock hrs


REPEAT above for, subtopics of TEXT , INSPIRATION, INERRANCY, AUTHORITY=
44 clock hrs.

prep for and FINAL PROCTORED EXAM OVER BIBLE= 5 clock hrs

Total study time for this topioc=60 hrs.

grade: readings , discussions, quizzes= 40%
paper= 30%
probe=10%
Final=20%



REPEAT all steps in above for the remaining 7 topics.

[ August 04, 2005, 03:09 PM: Message edited by: UZThD ]

 

[Rhetorician]

Is Dr. Bob right? Or, do we need to continue on?

sdg!

rd

 

[Plain Old Bill]

Continue on. Even Dwight J. Pentecost discusses the different points of view in his book "Things to Come", which some consider a pretty fair book on Eschatology.