Why start an online BB ministerial academy?

[Rhetorician]

Follow up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

After this first person is "on board" then (s)he can call on others to be on "The Steering Committee" to help things get up and running.

sdg!

rd

 

[Plain Old Bill]

I will do whatever You all ask of me within my abilities.

 

[TaterTot]

Hm...is there a list of seminary trained individuals?

 

[Plain Old Bill]

I've been looking on the where did you go to college thread.

 

[Dr. Bob]

Interesting thread. Am working on starting my own online program.

It is NOT equivalent of a conventional seminary but is more of an expanded "mentoring" program with both academic and practical projects.

Before doing anything with "BB" attached, you'd better get a strong go-ahead from the WebMaster

 

[UZThD]

I nominate POB to ramrod.

 

[Rhetorician]

Hey all,

I second the motion of POB to be the Steering Committee Chair.

POB, will you serve?

sdg!

rd

 

[exscentric]

"Before doing anything with "BB" attached, you'd better get a strong go-ahead from the WebMaster "

And who would that be? And who would be the owner of the board?

Just went looking for this info and found it not. Is there a mother website?

 

[Plain Old Bill]

I will do what ever you all ask. Yes.Please keep in mind I will need your help and guidence.

 

[Plain Old Bill]

Dear Dr. Bob,
I am assuming you mean if we were to operate the school from the board.As a matter of fact I think that came up in discussion earlier.I believe most of us think that would be an ideal situation.If that were to be the case of course we would seek permission and get all of the information as the the what,how, and all of the in betweens.

If you could tell us how to contact the Webmaster it would be very helpful and greatly appreciated.

 

[JamesBell]

So, POB it is!

As for using the name... I think we can cross that when we get to it. I would assume the webmaster would rather us not use baptistboard's band width.

 

[Plain Old Bill]

You are probably right.We should come up with temporary name so we have something to hang our hat onto.Just to get things started I will throw one into the hat.
Baptist Bible Training Institute

 

[exscentric]

FOOD FOR THOUGHT:

So, this is to be training/teaching as opposed to mentoring, post graduate level, highly trained faculty, Baptist, general doctrinal statemented, online only, diploma or certificate granting, training institute targeting _______________ what clientel? (if something is missing or incorrect please suggest corrections)

Some questions to ponder.

Who would want to attend?
Why would a seminary graduate want to attend?
Why would a Bible college graduate want to attend?
Why would a non-graduate want to attend?
What church would accept a non-degreed person with this diploma/certificate as pastor?
Would a church recognize this diploma/certificate as a plus in a resume?
What are the requirements of completion, or will there be grades/requirements?

Since the doctrinal statement is going to be general, how general will graduation requirements be?

How will you know if you have trained them properly or not? Will an Amill. feel a dispensationalist is qualified to graduate?

What level of education allows one to seek to be part of the faculty? What quality of education?

Do you want to accept anyone from the board into the faculty without knowledge of background/education?

I know most of this is yet future, but this might direct and focus things a little.

 

[UZThD]

I would agree that a prof giving Christian instruction cannot just be measured by his/her degrees. Character is also important.

But if a school desires to offer subjects which are academic, that is, they have a body of knowledge with which to interact, as courses in Bible, theology, church history, counseling, Christian Ed, then, IMO some academic standard for professorial instruction needs to be in place. That standard should suggest that a prof has interacted with the material he/she teaches at a rigor which qualifies him/her to teach that material to others.

So, re faculty academic qualifications :

This would depend on what substance and rigor we intended to require for our courses. I would like to think that at least some courses could be taught at least at Associate of Arts or BA level and would be transferable to some established schools were that desired by students.

If we hoped to have some courses transferable, then IMO, the academic qualification of a faculty would need to meet some recognized standard.

One guideline is that of the accreditor TRACS which according to # 15 of the TRACS Standard is for a prof giving undergrad instruction to have an accredited masters in the area of instruction and for a prof giving grad instruction to have an accredited doc in the area of instruction.

By area of instruction, eg, TRACS would place a DMin in praxis grad instruction, not grad Bible or Theology instruction which would require a doc (PhD/ThD) in Bible or Theology--not ministry. [ when ACCS lost accreditation by TRACS I spoke with the head official of TRACS who clarified that ]

There would be exceptions . IMO, eg, it is silly to suppose that one who has been a successful pastor for years and years could not teach a course in ministry by virtue of his experience.

I have long felt that one measure of an institution's substance is that instituion's academic requirement for profs.

[ July 27, 2005, 10:53 AM: Message edited by: UZThD ]

 

[Plain Old Bill]

Those are all great questions.
Although the doctrinal statement would be Somewhat open that does not mean it will be generic in the sense that one size fits all. It would be hard for me to imagine that we would say something like "The Bible is a pretty good book",or anything like that.However the question comes up on the amill and pre-mill,although I am solidly pre-trib,pre-mill I have read enough to know there is room for discussion.I would,nt think of someone with an amill position as being a heretic or anything like that. I know one person on this board who is amill who is very conservative and very well educated.He is a solid Bible believer in every respect.He is well respected on this board.Although I agree with him on many things,we don't concur on eschatology.
Would a church recognize our credentials? That of course would be up to the church. What we can do on our part is have the best training possible.We can provide transcripts.We can provide a list of who is on staff.As the students bear fruit it will become easier.
Who would want to attend such a school? Many different types of people. For the seminary student it would be a class in something they are missing in thier seminary education,perhaps on the practical side,maybe something like how to lead congregational music or how to train a chior master.Again for the college student there could be a variety of reasons,thier education is interrupted and they want to continue training,they want to fill in some holes in thier college training.For the person who has no college background we would be the academic and practical education for them.
Who would be interested?
Those who are unable to move to a new area to go to college for different reasons.
Those who have extreme financial hardship but still feel a call to the ministry and know they need training.
Qualifications for the teaching staff would be a Masters for the survey and introductory courses and a Doctorate in the more in depth courses with enough background and education to teach the subject.
An example would be perhaps someone like you.I know your educational background.I have read your book.I know you have taught at this level.So I think you would be a great candidate to teach Bible doctrine and theology.
There will be much discussion,planning and verification taking place before we are up and running.This will be no walk in the park.

I thank you for your input and your questions.I do hope you will give thought and prayer to helping us.

 

[exscentric]

I would submit setting the faculty standard quickly so that those that would not fit are not allowed into the mix and have to be excluded later.

As to the amil thing, I think you miss the fact that most amils are also covenant theologians which is a whole mindset for interpretation of the Scriptures (allegorical). I can't imagine an amil feeling real comfy putting his stamp of approval on a dispy or vise versa for that matter if the balance should sway the other way.

As to your comments uzthd, I would agree with most I think. How about someone contacting a few Bible colleges/seminaries and tell them what is being considered and find if they have a set requirement for the transfer of credits. This could set the guide in the first place rather than trying to squeese things in later.

 

[Plain Old Bill]

Great idea. Would you have any particular schools in mind?

 

[Rhetorician]

POB,

I am going to lay back and watch the discussions for a while. I have probably said too much already.

Here are my qualifications if you need or want me as an instructor. Just let me know by PM or email through the BB.

I have 23 years as an Ordained Southern Baptist Minister.

I am an avowed "Five Point Calvinist" who is involved in the Southern Baptist Founders Conference and Ministries.

I lean toward the "a-mil" direction for Eschatology. (I know that this is a "touchstone" for some Funamentalist's relationships).

I am married to "the wife of my youth" and only have been married once. (This is very impt. for some Fundamentalists relationships also).

I have been a cross cultural church planter; staff member @ a mega-church; short term missionary to Russia and Honduras (x2); pastored country churches; pastored urban churches; an Interim Pastor, served on Baptist Associational Brd. of Directors; and presently serve on the TN Baptist Convention's Historic Comm.

I have never been "fired from a church" or undergone "church discipline."

I have taught Public Address @ The University of Memphis as a Grad Student; taught World Religions, Bible Interpretation, Specialized Religion and Health Care Courses on the College level for 8 years; taught using the Blackboard online delivery system teaching online courses; taught in a Russian Baptist Pastor's Institute; taught for 30 years in the local Baptist church venue form 5th Grade boys to adults; taught Bluprint Reading for a local Community College; taught as a Sub in the Public Schools for three years; et al.

My educational credentials are posted in other threads. I would like to add however that:

I served a 4 year apprenticeship to become a Journeyman Steamfitter/Welder (Union Tradesman-this will also be a source of problems for some).

I have a BS from a "Bible College."

My M.Div. "with languages" is from The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary since Al Mohler's presidency. (That will mean something to those who know SBC backgrounds).

My M.Div. had a special emphasis in "Highter Education."

I have M.Div. Professional Studies hrs from The Memphis Theological Seminary, an Ecumenical Mission of the Cumberland Presbyterian Church. It is very liberal. I had to take a preaching class with a woman professor.

My Master of Arts in Religion is in the area of The History of Christian Thought. This was done at a Churches of Christ Grad School, Harding University School of Religion.

My doctoral dissertation contained 39 PhD hrs from the University of Memphis. I finished my D.M. @ The University of the South's (Sewanee) School of Theology. This is a very liberal Episcopalian Seminary.

My doctoral dissertation was titled: "A Rhetorical Taxonomy of the Jubilee 2000 Papal Apology of John Paul II." In in, I combined Social Ethics, Christian (Catholic) Thought, and Rhetoric.

I believe I would be qualified to teach: preaching (homiletics), Christian Thought (Theology), Social Ethics (not Bio & Medical Ethics), Public Address, all the way to the doctoral levels.

The reason I go into so much detail is that my education is rather eclectic. Some places where I have been & some things I believe might be quite offensive to some peoples. This offense might even go to the point that they might not want to work with me on this project.

I have always been my own man and becasue of this I have learned to think critically and rhetorically and Biblically.

I DO NOT want the tone of the email to seem negative. That is certainly NOT MY INTENTION.

What I wanted was for everyone to know who I am and what I am about. I would rather not get crosswired with anyone on the "get-go."

The project is to important and life is too short!!!!!

I have listed on my bio blurb for Columbia Evangelical Seminary that I am: Baptist, Reformed, and Ecumenical.

I wanted to put all of this out there so people would know with whom they are working. Or, they may not want to work as the case may be.

Let me know what you think?!

sdg!

rd

 

[Rhetorician]

Follow Up!!!

FYI!!!

POB!!!

You had better get Dr. Bob on board if there is any way possible!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Have you seen his credentials?????????

sdg!

rd

 

[UZThD]

I may as well fess up up front:

1) While I perceive nothing yet which specifically worries me, I confess I may be an academic snob in the eyes of some!

IMO not all schools are equal. Let me restate that: some schools are mills ( get a degree for nothing) or are millish (get a degree for a little bit) or are substandard (get a degree with less than what is normally expected) .

I'll bet that I could find a dozen mill or millish or even substandard DL schools off the web which would gladly accept transfer of credits given for below standard expectations regardless of the quality of instruction simply because just about anything equals the rigor of such schools. THAT would prove nothing about our quality.

I love and respect the Discipline of Biblical and Theological Studies and would not wish to do anything that encourages lackluster training in these areas. I am saying that if it is said or implied that the "Academy's" training is at a particular level of instruction and so may be transferable , then, that instruction should meet the standard of schools recognized as substantial.And those are the schools to ask.

But it premature to ask until other things as faculty and curricula are in place!

2) I confess that I can fellowship with and serve with those who hold different convictions than I do as long as about 5 or 6 major doctrines are held in common.

EG, a few months ago I gave a lecture in Christology to the NW meeting of the Evangelical Theological Society. The lecturer who followed me disagreed with me. But he has an accred doc and is a prof at an accred school , so I respect him and his thinking.

Again, my MA in theology is from an Arminian School. I am a Calvinist. But I respect my Nazarene profs.

In my dissertation I interact with scores and scores of views different than mine. I disagree with Erickson's and Gary Derickson's and and Grudem's and Dahm's and Buswell's Christology, but I respect them all and would JUMP at the chance to serve with them in a school.


I am premillennial , but I would have no problem with fellowshipping or serving with the likes of a GT Shedd or an AT Robertson or a Chas Hodge who are not. Now a Jehovah Witness or a Unitarian---that would be different.