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Why Sunday can NOT be the Lord's Day
- Thread starter wopik
- Start date
Wopic,
In Genesis when it shows that on the Seventh Day God rested. This is a forethought a reflection reflecting the purpose of Gods heart "into the furture" of what God was desiring to do. what this "Seventh Day" it represented (in Spiritual words though a very present reality)is what would be realized in Christ (Through the Cross=Wisdom and Power of God).
It was a Shadow of the good things to come not the Realities themselves the scriptures say.
God hid Christ in His FOREKNOWLEDGE (Before Christ came) showing through various ways His purpose in Christ WHO IS the TRUTH of the Old Testament. One Hides Him and reflects Him the Other (Christ) validates what was written by God beforehand concerning Him.
The Seventh day is holy because of WHO Christ IS and What God purposed on that Day. If you look God is "WORKING" with Christ in the gospels. He can't work if He rested from ALL His work. His Work was not done it pointed TO the Work of Christ on the Cross. When Jesus Said, "It is Finished" and yeilded up His Spirit. Gods work at that point is DONE. He laid the foundation STONE ""RIGHT THERE"". IN "THE BEGINING" (Is IN CHRIST) was THE WORD (SPIRIT) and THE WORD (SPIRIT) WAS GOD (anyone who has seen me has seen the Father).He was the EXACT REPRESENTATION OF THE FATHER (We are ONE)
Christ in Revelation says, "I am "THE BEGINING" (Christ defines it) and THE END" All things are SUMMED UP in Christ.
He is the FIRST and the LAST
The FIRST day is "Light" the LAST day the Light of the world as leaving the world (Seen as a MIST WENT UP on the Seventh Day). On Earth as the YEILDING UP of HIS SPIRIT.
This is seen in the Seventh Day itself when you see, "A MIST WENT UP" and watered the surface of the ground.
God is showing this then showing His pouring out His Spirit on all flesh (WATERING THE WHOLE SUFACE OF THE GROUND) This is the RAIN (BLESSING) of God.
This is a forethought in Gods heart as purposed in Christ.
Simply arguing over Saturday or Sunday misses such immense beauty of the Cross of Jesus Christ. We worship in Spirit and in Truth for God seeks those who worship Him in this way.
The Work of God is Christ Crucified= It is FINISHED= Come unto me and find REST for your souls. Don't miss entering into this blessed Rest He hath prepared for you. As Mary at His feet sat there and learned of Him, She chose the BEST PART and He said, it shall not be taken from her. Thats Beautiful...
God Bless
Seth3
[ October 28, 2004, 09:21 PM: Message edited by: Seth3 ]
In Genesis when it shows that on the Seventh Day God rested. This is a forethought a reflection reflecting the purpose of Gods heart "into the furture" of what God was desiring to do. what this "Seventh Day" it represented (in Spiritual words though a very present reality)is what would be realized in Christ (Through the Cross=Wisdom and Power of God).
It was a Shadow of the good things to come not the Realities themselves the scriptures say.
God hid Christ in His FOREKNOWLEDGE (Before Christ came) showing through various ways His purpose in Christ WHO IS the TRUTH of the Old Testament. One Hides Him and reflects Him the Other (Christ) validates what was written by God beforehand concerning Him.
The Seventh day is holy because of WHO Christ IS and What God purposed on that Day. If you look God is "WORKING" with Christ in the gospels. He can't work if He rested from ALL His work. His Work was not done it pointed TO the Work of Christ on the Cross. When Jesus Said, "It is Finished" and yeilded up His Spirit. Gods work at that point is DONE. He laid the foundation STONE ""RIGHT THERE"". IN "THE BEGINING" (Is IN CHRIST) was THE WORD (SPIRIT) and THE WORD (SPIRIT) WAS GOD (anyone who has seen me has seen the Father).He was the EXACT REPRESENTATION OF THE FATHER (We are ONE)
Christ in Revelation says, "I am "THE BEGINING" (Christ defines it) and THE END" All things are SUMMED UP in Christ.
He is the FIRST and the LAST
The FIRST day is "Light" the LAST day the Light of the world as leaving the world (Seen as a MIST WENT UP on the Seventh Day). On Earth as the YEILDING UP of HIS SPIRIT.
This is seen in the Seventh Day itself when you see, "A MIST WENT UP" and watered the surface of the ground.
God is showing this then showing His pouring out His Spirit on all flesh (WATERING THE WHOLE SUFACE OF THE GROUND) This is the RAIN (BLESSING) of God.
This is a forethought in Gods heart as purposed in Christ.
Simply arguing over Saturday or Sunday misses such immense beauty of the Cross of Jesus Christ. We worship in Spirit and in Truth for God seeks those who worship Him in this way.
The Work of God is Christ Crucified= It is FINISHED= Come unto me and find REST for your souls. Don't miss entering into this blessed Rest He hath prepared for you. As Mary at His feet sat there and learned of Him, She chose the BEST PART and He said, it shall not be taken from her. Thats Beautiful...
God Bless
Seth3
[ October 28, 2004, 09:21 PM: Message edited by: Seth3 ]
Ok I just been catching up on the post I have one more question for those who want to debate aginst the 7th day sabbath vs the 1st of the week sabbath. Where in the bible does its say that the Lord changed it? In Genisis it says it was the 7th day....the Jewish people still keep it on the 7th day. With the www any one can find out when it is through Jerusalem Post website. What is the big fear of keeping the sabbath on the same day? Afraid of being called names or what?
Problem was they always keep the Sabbath on the Seventh but never entered Gods Rest.
The Sabbath Rest for Gods people is a Spiritual rest in ones soul.
But either day one decides to go to a building to worship I would not think matters.
Try both Saturday and Sunday if your bothered by it lol! I see everyday alike but like the scriptures say that will varry depending on your perception but we are at liberty to be convinced in our own minds over it. Do it to the Lord in all things Amen?
God Bless
Seth3
The Sabbath Rest for Gods people is a Spiritual rest in ones soul.
But either day one decides to go to a building to worship I would not think matters.
Try both Saturday and Sunday if your bothered by it lol! I see everyday alike but like the scriptures say that will varry depending on your perception but we are at liberty to be convinced in our own minds over it. Do it to the Lord in all things Amen?
God Bless
Seth3
This whole planet full of people is going to have to keep the Sabbath when the LORD returns to rule the Earth - Isaiah 66:23.
And since the Apostles thought Jesus was going to return within their own life-times, it hardly seems logical for Sunday to be practiced for one or two months, and then the change over to the Sabbath -- at Christ's return.
The same scenario holds true for the "holidays of the Bible" (Zechariah 14: 16-19).
And since the Apostles thought Jesus was going to return within their own life-times, it hardly seems logical for Sunday to be practiced for one or two months, and then the change over to the Sabbath -- at Christ's return.
The same scenario holds true for the "holidays of the Bible" (Zechariah 14: 16-19).
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
Isaiah 58
Mark 2
So we do have explicit texts assigning to the Sabbath - the title "Day of the Lord" and Christ "Lord of the Sabbath day".
But is He not Lord of Tuesday as well? Surely He is! However He did not sanctify, bless and make holy (binding) Tuesday.
We can not then honor Tuesday instead of His own choice of Sabbath - but we can certainly worship God on Tuesday and honor Him in so doing.
In Christ,
Bob
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
God does not say that "all mankind will come before Me to worship as Legalists from Sabbath to Sabbath -- since they are meeting on My Sabbath instead of Tuesday and everyone knows you can only really spiritually worship Me on Tuesdays and not on My Holy Day" in Isaiah 66.
The issue is not how much we can worship on Tuesday or on Saturday. We can worship on both freely. The issue is - what is God saying about HIS Holy Day?
In Christ,
Bob
Theres Liberty.... Jesus asks, "How does it read to you", Paul says, "One must be convinced in his own mind". Some regard one day more holier then the next. I'm one who sees everyday alike. I see The Seventh Day as a Spiritual Rest that I enter into and rest from my works and rest in His. Though I have Spiritually labored to enter it. As the Day dawns within. An Eternal Day. The Day God made for us.
But legalists do, its a fact. He desires those to Worship Him in Spirit and in Truth not here not there.
But you have to be convinced in your mind too. We all give an account to God, my concience does not bother me a bit I'm at rest with what I understand about it.
Whatever day, however ones sees it is between themselves and the Lord who Teaches them.
God Bless
Seth3
But legalists do, its a fact. He desires those to Worship Him in Spirit and in Truth not here not there.
But you have to be convinced in your mind too. We all give an account to God, my concience does not bother me a bit I'm at rest with what I understand about it.
Whatever day, however ones sees it is between themselves and the Lord who Teaches them.
God Bless
Seth3
so is "legalism" anything God tells us to do?
I guess foot washing is "legalism" (Jn 13: 14-15).
I guess keeping the Ten Commandments is "legalism" (Matt 19: 16-19).
I guess feeding the hungry is "legalism" (Matt 25: 35-40).
I guess loving your neighbor as yourself is "legalism" (Lev 19:18 / Matt 5:43, 22:39).
*************************************************
"For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day" -- Matt 12:8.
Since He is Lord of the Sabbath Day, the Sabbath Day must be the Lord's day.
I guess foot washing is "legalism" (Jn 13: 14-15).
I guess keeping the Ten Commandments is "legalism" (Matt 19: 16-19).
I guess feeding the hungry is "legalism" (Matt 25: 35-40).
I guess loving your neighbor as yourself is "legalism" (Lev 19:18 / Matt 5:43, 22:39).
*************************************************
"For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day" -- Matt 12:8.
Since He is Lord of the Sabbath Day, the Sabbath Day must be the Lord's day.
Christians are also suppose to keep the seventh day Sabbath because we belong to and believe in Christ --- "And if you be Christ's, then are you Abraham's seed, and heir according to the promise" (Gal. 3:29).
Abraham is the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised..... (Romans 4:11).
The Church -- the called out ones -- is the "Israel of God" (Gal. 6:16 / Psalms 125:5).
"But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter...." (Romans 2:25-29).
Christians are grafted in among them [Israel] (Romans 11: 13-26).
Abraham is the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised..... (Romans 4:11).
The Church -- the called out ones -- is the "Israel of God" (Gal. 6:16 / Psalms 125:5).
"But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter...." (Romans 2:25-29).
Christians are grafted in among them [Israel] (Romans 11: 13-26).
Paul said don't let any man judge you in regards to holy days or Sabbaths. The Sabbath is the Eternal day of Rest in type. But if you don't see this thats fine worship on Sunday and take it literal. God seeks those who worship in Spirit and in Truth. He's not looking for a song money or a sermon He's looking for our hearts, our bodies and selves given to Him in Truth and to honor Him in walking in faith which worketh love. Love fulfills the law.
God bless
Seth3
God bless
Seth3
The Seventh day is THE SABBABTH MADE FOR MAN the DAY is not a callender day it was the Day Christ Died and finished GODS WORK that those under the law laboring (seen as in Egypt) might enter HIS REST and CEASE FROM THEIR LABORS (UNDER THE LAW/Old Covenant) and Enter into the New Covenant where we Worship Him in Spirit and in Truth and in REST and in Assurance of our Salvation. The sabbath MADE FOR MAN NOT man FOR THE SABBATH.
Typed In Genesis as a forethought of Christs finished work and God resting from it, as in David who sinned and God took away his sin BUT His first child DIED the SEVENTH DAY (Picture of Christ).
The day the Lord Has made a Sabbath Rest for His people.
Literally by the letter- Go to a building on Sunday.
God bless
Seth
Typed In Genesis as a forethought of Christs finished work and God resting from it, as in David who sinned and God took away his sin BUT His first child DIED the SEVENTH DAY (Picture of Christ).
The day the Lord Has made a Sabbath Rest for His people.
Literally by the letter- Go to a building on Sunday.
God bless
Seth
Hello Bradleyc
This text simply says, “Upon the first day of the week, the disciples came together to break bread….Paul preached….” There is here no mention of the sacredness of this day or of the “Lord’s Day”. Nor is the meeting itself referred to as anything other than a Church meeting. If every time a body of believers meet on a day and a preacher preaches a sermon, that makes the day holy, there would be numerous Sabbath/holy days.
Clearly, all such days can not be Sabbath or holy days, as we would have several Sabbath days in any given week. Some churches hold Sunday evening meetings and meetings on Wednesday evenings. But neither of these is sacred beyond the act of worship itself.
It seems clear that the reason for gathering in Acts 20:7 was for fellowship and the breaking or sharing of their food.
"Breaking bread" is just eating a meal (Lk 24:30; Jn 21:12-13). The Disciples “continuing DAILY with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness”. Here “breaking bread” means eating a meal, Not on the first day of the week, but DAILY.
Today’s English Version, correctly translated from the inspired Greek text, says: “On Saturday evening we gathered together for the fellowship meal. Paul spoke to the people, and kept on speaking until midnight, since he was going to leave the next day.”
1 Corinthians 16: 1-2
This was a normal working day, to collect and pack up the FRUIT which had been stored – laid by - for the poor saints in Jerusalem, who were experiencing drought and famine.
This speaks of a collection for the poor saints at Jerusalem who were suffering from drought and famine. The needed, not money, but FOOD. Notice Paul had given similar instructions to other churches.
To the Romans, Paul says, “But now I go unto Jerusalem to minister unto the saints. For it has pleased them of Macedonia and Achaia [where the Corinthian Church was located] to make a certain contribution for the poor saints which are at Jerusalem…..When therefore, I have performed this and have sealed to them THIS FRUIT, I will come by you into Spain” (Romans 15: 25-28).
“And when I come, whomsoever you shall approve by your letters, THEM will I send to bring your liberality unto Jerusalem. And if it be meet that I go also, they [more than one] shall go with me” (1 Cor. 16:3-4).
Apparently, it was going to require several men to carry this collection, gathered and stored up, to Jerusalem.
http://bibletools.org/index.cfm/fa/Bible.show/sVerseID/28778/eVerseID/28780
http://www.nisbett.com/sabbath/sunday_not_lords_day.htm
Acts 20: 7,8
This text simply says, “Upon the first day of the week, the disciples came together to break bread….Paul preached….” There is here no mention of the sacredness of this day or of the “Lord’s Day”. Nor is the meeting itself referred to as anything other than a Church meeting. If every time a body of believers meet on a day and a preacher preaches a sermon, that makes the day holy, there would be numerous Sabbath/holy days.
Clearly, all such days can not be Sabbath or holy days, as we would have several Sabbath days in any given week. Some churches hold Sunday evening meetings and meetings on Wednesday evenings. But neither of these is sacred beyond the act of worship itself.
It seems clear that the reason for gathering in Acts 20:7 was for fellowship and the breaking or sharing of their food.
"Breaking bread" is just eating a meal (Lk 24:30; Jn 21:12-13). The Disciples “continuing DAILY with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness”. Here “breaking bread” means eating a meal, Not on the first day of the week, but DAILY.
Today’s English Version, correctly translated from the inspired Greek text, says: “On Saturday evening we gathered together for the fellowship meal. Paul spoke to the people, and kept on speaking until midnight, since he was going to leave the next day.”
1 Corinthians 16: 1-2
This was a normal working day, to collect and pack up the FRUIT which had been stored – laid by - for the poor saints in Jerusalem, who were experiencing drought and famine.
This speaks of a collection for the poor saints at Jerusalem who were suffering from drought and famine. The needed, not money, but FOOD. Notice Paul had given similar instructions to other churches.
To the Romans, Paul says, “But now I go unto Jerusalem to minister unto the saints. For it has pleased them of Macedonia and Achaia [where the Corinthian Church was located] to make a certain contribution for the poor saints which are at Jerusalem…..When therefore, I have performed this and have sealed to them THIS FRUIT, I will come by you into Spain” (Romans 15: 25-28).
“And when I come, whomsoever you shall approve by your letters, THEM will I send to bring your liberality unto Jerusalem. And if it be meet that I go also, they [more than one] shall go with me” (1 Cor. 16:3-4).
Apparently, it was going to require several men to carry this collection, gathered and stored up, to Jerusalem.
http://bibletools.org/index.cfm/fa/Bible.show/sVerseID/28778/eVerseID/28780
http://www.nisbett.com/sabbath/sunday_not_lords_day.htm
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
1. Are God's commandments valid? Or should we, like the unbeliever - ignore them?
2. Did God "ever" say "do on My sabbath any thing that comes to mind - it will be fine"?
3. Could Adam have ignored the 7th day?
4. Isaiah 66 says that in the new heaven ALL MANKIND will come before God to Worship "From Sabbath to Sabbath" -- what if you don't "feel like it"? Can you rationalize "some other way" as being "just as valid"?
How much "editing" are we allowed?
In Christ,
Bob
Bob,
It still does not adress the fact that to one man one day is regarded as holier then the other but to another one everyday alike (as Paul said). He also said, let no man judge you according to holy days and Sabbaths, so the word cannot be rightly divided in this assumption. Theres alot in the Old Testament but it needs to be seen in the light of the New.
The Sabbath is a Rest as I see it. A Spiritual rest I entered into. Your at liberty to regard this day as Holier then others. I see every day in light of that day alone and see it as a Spiritual Rest in Christs finished work.
Paul already knew that differing veiws would exist according to how we can each understand it.
YOU regard one day more holier then the other (I say good, enjoy that day as the Lord shows YOU)
I see everyday alike in His Sabbath Rest and am at liberty to regard it as such, as Paul said.
I don't judge you for it, I once regarded it the same as you, but I don't any longer I see it differently now and am at liberty to do so according to scripture.
God bless
Seth3
It still does not adress the fact that to one man one day is regarded as holier then the other but to another one everyday alike (as Paul said). He also said, let no man judge you according to holy days and Sabbaths, so the word cannot be rightly divided in this assumption. Theres alot in the Old Testament but it needs to be seen in the light of the New.
The Sabbath is a Rest as I see it. A Spiritual rest I entered into. Your at liberty to regard this day as Holier then others. I see every day in light of that day alone and see it as a Spiritual Rest in Christs finished work.
Paul already knew that differing veiws would exist according to how we can each understand it.
YOU regard one day more holier then the other (I say good, enjoy that day as the Lord shows YOU)
I see everyday alike in His Sabbath Rest and am at liberty to regard it as such, as Paul said.
I don't judge you for it, I once regarded it the same as you, but I don't any longer I see it differently now and am at liberty to do so according to scripture.
God bless
Seth3
Hello Seth3
I believe your statement is refering to Romans 14:1-6.
Paul was writing to a mixed church of Jewish and gentile believers in Rome. In verses 2 and 3 Paul discussed vegetarianism ("he who is weak eats only vegetables") and continued this theme in verse 6 ("he who eats...and he who does not eat").
The passage in question about days is in verses 5 and 6, immediately between references to eating meat and vegetarianism in verses 2, 3 and 6.
There is no biblical connection between Sabbath observance and vegetarianism, so these verses have to be taken out of context to assume that Paul was referring to the Sabbath.
Paul's advice in 1 Corinthians 8 was the same as his conclusion in Romans 14:15: Be especially careful not to offend a fellow member, causing him to stumble or lose faith over the issue of meats. What is clear is that the Roman members' reason for avoiding meat was directly related to the days they were observing.
I don't see it literal in this either though Wopic. I see that Carnal babes in Christ can only drink the milk of the word but have not yet developed Spiritual teeth to chew the meat. So there is a natural understanding and a Spiritual understanding. Like taking in what you can recieve at the moment.
Yet at that time there were those who sacrificed the bull offerings etc either in a Temple of idols or as the Old Testament literally taken advised. But they were weak in concience until they were fully born of faith whereas they were not at this time. To the pure (who have purified their minds by faith) all things arre pure, but to the defiled (in mind uncleansed by the spoken word) nothing was pure to them. So Paul is adressing this that the one WEAKER in faith is being caused to stumble at your knowledge. Therefore your destroying your brother (conscience) over meat and not acting in love.
If the brother who was weak in faith (doubting in his heart) over what he should eat or drink because He's not fully washed in his mind would be embolden to eat what his heart forbids him until he is certain by faith he can do so. Therefore when he eats he heaps condemnation on himself because when he partook he did not do so by faith, anything not of faith is sin. So because he doubted when he ate he was not sure. He needs to be sure in himself concerning things. Fully convinced in His own mind. Thats the Liberty in Christ. The Older in Christ serve the younger in this way allowing for personal convictions.
God bless
Seth3
Yet at that time there were those who sacrificed the bull offerings etc either in a Temple of idols or as the Old Testament literally taken advised. But they were weak in concience until they were fully born of faith whereas they were not at this time. To the pure (who have purified their minds by faith) all things arre pure, but to the defiled (in mind uncleansed by the spoken word) nothing was pure to them. So Paul is adressing this that the one WEAKER in faith is being caused to stumble at your knowledge. Therefore your destroying your brother (conscience) over meat and not acting in love.
If the brother who was weak in faith (doubting in his heart) over what he should eat or drink because He's not fully washed in his mind would be embolden to eat what his heart forbids him until he is certain by faith he can do so. Therefore when he eats he heaps condemnation on himself because when he partook he did not do so by faith, anything not of faith is sin. So because he doubted when he ate he was not sure. He needs to be sure in himself concerning things. Fully convinced in His own mind. Thats the Liberty in Christ. The Older in Christ serve the younger in this way allowing for personal convictions.
God bless
Seth3
freakpastor
New Member
Col 2:16
Do you enjoy grace or live under the law?
Do you enjoy grace or live under the law?