Why the hatred for Calvanism........

[KenH]

Originally posted by Helen:
Now if you were lost as a Pelagian and saved as a Calvinist, what happened to your election from before time began?

The elect do not usually come into the world as repentant believers. Election took place way back in eternity. Calling happens in time. The conversion experience in time involves licking the dust of repentance and coming to Jesus in faith in His finished work. The salvation of the elect was secured way back in eternity. The elect experience the spiritual comforts of this salvation in this world after they are effectual called by God.

I hope this helps.

Ken
A Spurgeonite

 

[russell55]

Yep. Even the elect are "children of wrath, even as the rest" until "God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in transgressions, made us alive together with Christ."

 

[Ray Berrian]

Frogman,

No one hates Father John Calvin just removed from 'RC for me,' to join the new Refomation club. At least for me, I hate some of what the man penned in his "Calvin's Institutes." He cut Jesus atonement at least in half by saying that Jesus only died for some people. This concept 'flies in the face' of God's impartial love and justice toward all human beings. [Romans 5:18] Two very important Attributes of God in theology are His love and unswearving justice.

 

[Ray Berrian]

Ken Hamilton,

God must have been ineffecutal in His calling {Ineffectual Calling} according to your humanistic view of theology. On the other hand, you probably believe that God just left those ill fated people to die in their sins, not calling to them at all.

 

[Ray Berrian]

God's Doctrines of Grace would never autocratically save some and give 'tickets' to Hell for the rest of His humanity. Let's not use 'the doctrines of grace' to carelessly. For me this view is a doctrine of disgrace.

 

[KenH]

God gives no one a ticket to hell. Man punched his own ticket.

In regards to calling, no, God does not call every person with the effectual call.

Ken
A Spurgeonite

 

[Ray Berrian]

Ken Hamilton,

If both 'Semi-Pelagian' and 'Calvinistic churches are relatively true to the Gospel you had no excuse for not being saved. Don't blame a system of theology; you were and are responsible for your faith or lack thereof.

 

[Helen]

Originally posted by Ken Hamilton:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Helen:
Now if you were lost as a Pelagian and saved as a Calvinist, what happened to your election from before time began?

The elect do not usually come into the world as repentant believers. Election took place way back in eternity. Calling happens in time. The conversion experience in time involves licking the dust of repentance and coming to Jesus in faith in His finished work. The salvation of the elect was secured way back in eternity. The elect experience the spiritual comforts of this salvation in this world after they are effectual called by God.

I hope this helps.

Ken
A Spurgeonite </font>[/QUOTE]Then you were always saved and never lost as a Pelagian.

Of course, this does still leave a problem with those who are not elected from eternity, since hell was not made for them but for the devil and his angels. What do you think God was originally planning to do with the folks created in His image whom He didn't care enough about to elect?

 

[Ray Berrian]

Ken Hamilton,

That's right I forgot about that correct theology that teaches that our Lord is unjust, meaning, the One who demonstrates injustice by damning the unsuspecting.

 

[russell55]

Notice Ken didn't say semi-pelagian, but pelagian. In other words, Ken believed he was saved by the good works he did.

 

[Rev. G]

Gosh, Ken, I'm feeling all "warm and fuzzy" from the "loving responses" you are getting.

[ November 02, 2002, 10:09 PM: Message edited by: Rev. G ]