WHY THE RAPTURE MUST BE PRE-TRIBULATION

[Downsville]

Hi Ed Edwards
Could you answer me a question?

JOB 14 [12] So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.[13] O that thou wouldest hide me in the grave, that thou wouldest keep me secret, until thy wrath be past, that thou wouldest appoint me a set time, and remember me![14] If a man die, shall he live again? all the days of my appointed time will I wait, till my change come.

Job knew when he would be changed "in the twinkling of an eye". He says after the wrath and after the heavens be no more. Both of these describe the DAY OF THE LORD. Why do you think youll "be changed" 7 years before Job?

 

[Ed Edwards]

Downsville: "Why do you think youll "be changed" 7 years before Job? "

1. I have a more complete revelation of Jesus
than Job had.

2. The DAY OF THE LORD starts at the pretribulation rapture
and extends to past the Millinnial Kingdom. The DAY OF THE LORD
is at least 1007 years long

3. I'll be changed the same prophetic DAY as Job.

 

[Downsville]

Ed Edwards
The DAY OF THE LORD lasts at least a 1007 years ED?

ISAIAH 34 [2] For the indignation of the LORD is upon all nations, and his fury upon all their armies: he hath utterly destroyed them, he hath delivered them to the slaughter.[3] Their slain also shall be cast out, and their stink shall come up out of their carcases, and the mountains shall be melted with their blood.[4] And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll: and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falleth off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree. [8] For it is the day of the LORD's vengeance, and the year of recompences for the controversy of Zion.

For it is the day of the LORD's vengeance, and the year of recompences for the controversy of Zion.

Well,Job said after the wrath he would be changed. You said you knew more the Job.

Do you also know more than Isaiah?

 

[Downsville]

Ed Edwards
Youre also going to have to explain why God told HIS people to hide themselves for but a moment while HE pours out HIS indignation and that moment will last 1007 years. Better start stockin up on TP.

ISAIAH 26 [20] Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.[21] For, behold, the LORD cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover
her slain.

 

[Ed Jones]

Originally posted by Ed Edwards:
What value do you put on "revealed"?
Some say the Son of Perdition is revealed when
he commits the Abomination of Desolation.
Others say when folks know the AC is the AC
(like the Daniel 9:27 covenant) is the revealing.

Revealed means when someone is clearly recognized. The covenant mentioned in Daniel 9:27 at the beginning of the Tribulation period is certainly one way to recognize the man of sin. Another clearer passage is also found in the book of Daniel:

Dan 11:21 And in his estate shall stand up a vile person, to whom they shall not give the honour of the kingdom: but he shall come in peaceably, and obtain the kingdom by flatteries.
Dan 11:22 And with the arms of a flood shall they be overflown from before him, and shall be broken; yea, also the prince of the covenant.
Dan 11:23 And after the league [made] with him he shall work deceitfully: for he shall come up, and shall become strong with a small people.

In verse 23, the “league” is the covenant of Daniel 9:27. Once the agreement is made, “he shall come up and shall become strong.” At this point he will receive power and recognition on the global stage.

This is still the beginning of the 7-year Tribulation period and before the rapture of the Church.

Originally posted by Ed Edwards:
But instead of you humbly conceding, i'm willing to let
you say "i disagree". I've figured out how to disagree
without being disagreeable. If one prays for good
success for another, it is hard to despise them.

It is not my intent to offend you; it is simply to allow the Scriptures to speak for themselves. And I am not offended when someone questions my conclusions or even proves me wrong; it’s God’s truth that matters most. Everyone must remember to put God’s truth first so that we won’t have to be offended when our “opinions” are challenged.

 

[Ed Jones]

Originally posted by Ed Edwards:
Are you ready to see the clear reading of the first "and"
in Matthew 24:31, the pretrib rapture reading?

Again read Matthew 24, verses 29 through 31. It begins with “Immediately after the tribulation…”

 

[Downsville]

JOEL 2 [1] Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the day of the LORD cometh, for it is nigh at hand;[2] A day of darkness and of gloominess, a day of clouds and of thick darkness, as the morning spread upon the mountains:

YIKES! 1007 years of darkness! Any xtra batteries ED?

 

[Ed Edwards]

Originally posted by Downsville:
JOEL 2 [1] Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the day of the LORD cometh, for it is nigh at hand;[2] A day of darkness and of gloominess, a day of clouds and of thick darkness, as the morning spread upon the mountains:

YIKES! 1007 years of darkness! Any xtra batteries ED?

Oh that, Day of the Lord, it is 7 years long. You don't need no
extra battries for it, Jesus will take
your old flashlight from you and give
you a new flashlight (one that needs no
batteries) just before the Tribulation Period.

 

[Downsville]

Maybe i could use another math lesson Ed.

 

[Downsville]

Ed???
You wrote
Oh that, Day of the Lord, it is 7 years long

Isaiah wrote
ISAIAH 34 [8] For it is the day of the LORD's vengeance, and the year of recompences for the controversy of Zion.

According to Isaiah its a year Ed. Did he get it wrong also?

 

[Downsville]

Sorry about the sarcasm Ed. I guess it started with the math lesson. Sorry.

 

[Ed Edwards]

Originally posted by Downsville:
Ed???
You wrote
Oh that, Day of the Lord, it is 7 years long

Isaiah wrote
ISAIAH 34 [8] For it is the day of the LORD's vengeance, and the year of recompences for the controversy of Zion.

According to Isaiah its a year Ed. Did he get it wrong also?

2 Peter 3:10 (KJV1769):
But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night;
in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise,
and the elements shall melt with fervent heat,
the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

This day of the Lord is 1,000 years long (see Rev 20-21)!!

day1 - 24-hour day
day2 - 8-hour day, a workday
day3 - 48-hour day (a date from the time
it starts on the earth until it ends
day 4 - the appropriate time
day 5 - 12-hour day - the hours of dark or light

Definition 4 is the only definition of "day" that
can meet all requirements.

BTW hour = the appropriate time
so in God's economy hour = day.

[joke]God, to you 1,000 years is like a day
YES
God, to you even a million years is like a minute
YES
God, to you $1,000 is like $1
YES
God, to you even a million dollars is like a penny
YES
God, would you give me one of our pennys?
YES, In A MINUTE! [/joke]

 

[Ed Edwards]

Originally posted by Downsville:
Maybe i could use another math lesson Ed.

Ok, but it isn't about the pretrib rapture.

Theorem from Set Math:

An infinite set can be divided into any finite
number of infinite subsets.

Eternity is an infinite set of time periods.
There will be a finite number of human beings
and other beings in eternity.
So you can make an infite subset for each person
in eternity.

The Good Part:
That means that you will spend eternity alone with Jesus.
Maybe you will only get a minute alone with Jesus each
37 Billion years. But every 37 Billion years you get a minute,
minute without end -- you will spend eternityh alone with
Jesus.

The Bad part:
You get to spend eternity alone with me.
You better get to like me, eternity is a LONG time.

Downsville: "Sorry about the sarcasm Ed."

You just forget the hypertext markup language simulator for sarcasm:
[sarcasm]. Don't forget to end the sarcasm with [/sarcasm]

 

[Ed Edwards]

Originally posted by Ed Jones:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Ed Edwards:
Are you ready to see the clear reading of the first "and"
in Matthew 24:31, the pretrib rapture reading?

Again read Matthew 24, verses 29 through 31. It begins with “Immediately after the tribulation…” </font>[/QUOTE]Matthew 24:31 starts with an "AND". Didn't your teacher
tell you in school sometime:
//Never start a sentence with "and"//?
Why do the sentences in Genesis chapter 1
nearly all start with "and"?

What are the three questions the disciples
ask in Matthew 24:3?
What was the anser of Jesus to each
question?

 

[Downsville]

Ed Ed.
The Day of the LORD will last but 1 year. HE returns at the end of the trib period.

you wrote
The Bad part:
You get to spend eternity alone with me.
You better get to like me, eternity is a LONG time.

Now your scarin me Ed.

 

[Downsville]

ED ED.
You wrote
This day of the Lord is 1,000 years long (see Rev 20-21)!!

Ed? This(REV.20-21)is the 1000 yr period of rest. You may correct my spelling, The Millienium (hey, i think i got it right). It wont be easy to rest during the DAY OF THE LORD but the whole world will be at rest in the millinium.

 

[Jude]

Acts 1.4-11 NIV
On one occasion, while he was eating with them, he gave them this command: “Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift my Father promised, which you have heard me speak about. For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.” So when they met together, they asked him, “Lord, are you at this time going to restore the kingdom to Israel?” He said to them: “It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by his own authority. But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.” After he said this, he was taken up before their very eyes, and a cloud hid him from their sight. They were looking intently up into the sky as he was going, when suddenly two men dressed in white stood beside them. “Men of Galilee,” they said, “why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven.”

Hmmm...seems like you guys spend a lot of time on things that Jesus said didn't matter! If Jesus said, "it is not for you to know" to the Apostles, then why oh why do you spend SO MUCH TIME arguing about 'post, pre, mid' and 'pre, a, post'? The 'two men' (angels) testified that Jesus would return. That's enough for me. "Christ will come again," we say in our liturgy. But the greater emphasis, in this passage, is that the disciples WITNESS, being FILLED WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT!

Matt. 24.36 “No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father."
Mark 13.32 “No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father"

 

[Downsville]

Hey Jude
I found this scripture. And if it means what it sounds like it means,God does care whats being preached by the prophets. Im not going to say to much about the scripture because i couldnt find any other scriptures which are talking about the same thing, and i dont like taking a stand on 1 point of scripture. So you can read it and come to your own conclusion.

EZEK.13
[1] And the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
[5] Ye have not gone up into the gaps, neither made up the hedge for the house of Israel to stand in the battle in the day of the LORD.
[6] They have seen vanity and lying divination, saying, The LORD saith: and the LORD hath not sent them: and they have made others to hope that they would confirm the word.
[7] Have ye not seen a vain vision, and have ye not spoken a lying divination, whereas ye say, The LORD saith it; albeit I have not spoken?
[17] Likewise, thou son of man, set thy face against the daughters of thy people, which prophesy out of their own heart; and prophesy thou against them,
[18] And say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Woe to the women that sew pillows to all armholes, and make kerchiefs upon the head of every stature to hunt souls! Will ye hunt the souls of my people, and will ye save the souls alive that come unto you?
[19] And will ye pollute me among my people for handfuls of barley and for pieces of bread, to slay the souls that should not die, and to save the souls alive that should not live, by your lying to my people that hear your lies?
[20] Wherefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against your pillows, wherewith ye there hunt the souls to make them fly, and I will tear them from your arms, and will let the souls go, even the souls that ye hunt to make them fly.
[21] Your kerchiefs also will I tear, and deliver my people out of your hand, and they shall be no more in your hand to be hunted; and ye shall know that I am the LORD.
[22] Because with lies ye have made the heart of the righteous sad, whom I have not made sad; and strengthened the hands of the wicked, that he should not return from his wicked way, by promising him life:

Wherefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against your pillows, wherewith ye there hunt the souls to make them fly, and I will tear them from your arms, and will let the souls go, even the souls that ye hunt to make them fly.

Because with lies ye have made the heart of the righteous sad, whom I have not made sad; and strengthened the hands of the wicked, that he should not return from his wicked way, by promising him life:

Flying souls and promising them life

The scripture is for this day as THE DAY OF THE LORD is mentioned

 

[Jude]

In saying "this Scripture is for today," I am not sure what you mean. Is this Scripture written solely for 'our' day? I don't think so. Is the principle the same, regarding the Lord's attitude toward 'false prophets'. To be sure.

13:6 Their visions are false. Whether the false prophets had actual visions is unknown, but they claimed to have received revelations from God when in reality their messages only proclaimed what their hearers wanted to hear (see Isa 30:10; Jer 23:9-17; 2Ti 4:3).

13:11 Rain will come in torrents. The violent thunderstorm of God’s judgment (imagery frequently used in the OT) was about to sweep them away (see, e.g., Ps 18:7-15; 77:17-18; 83:15; Isa 28:17; 30:30; Jer 23:19; 30:23).

13:9 They will not belong. A threefold punishment, resulting in total exclusion from the community.

13:10 “Peace,” when there is no peace. See v. 16; Jer 6:14; 8:11. whitewash. The Hebrew for this word is used only by Ezekiel (see 22:28). A similar-sounding Hebrew word means “unsatisfying things,” and Ezekiel may have chosen the word he did because of its similarity to the other one.

 

[Ed Edwards]

Jude: "Hmmm...seems like you guys spend a lot of time
on things that Jesus said didn't matter!
If Jesus said, "it is not for you to know" to the Apostles,
then why oh why do you spend SO MUCH TIME arguing
about 'post, pre, mid' and 'pre, a, post'? "

There you go, brother Downsville, an example of
the new math

it is not for you to know = it doesn't matter

Romans 11:29 (KJV1769):
For the gifts and calling of God
are without repentance.

Jude: "The 'two men' (angels) testified that Jesus
would return. That's enough for me. "Christ will
come again," we say in our liturgy. But the greater
emphasis, in this passage, is that the disciples
WITNESS, being FILLED WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT!"

Amen, Brother Jude -- Preach it!