Irony of irony is the Seventh Day Adventists who so shout Law Law, cannot, or will not, and therefore shall not ever, see this is what the Law proclaimed and confirmed through the Man from Nazareth - "Secluded Acre".
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Why the Sunday-keeping Church thinks of Sunday as the Sabbath
- Thread starter Gerhard Ebersoehn
- Start date
Trustiti,
"Romans 2:14 "For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves".
GE
They are unto themselves the law - or just 'law' without the 'the'. They are not the Ten Commandments. It needs Revelation - The Holy Spirit speaking - through the Scriptures, to reveal the things pertaing both to God and sin. The Scriptures - we shall be disciplined by the Scriptures or we shall go our own wanton way.
"Romans 2:14 "For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves".
GE
They are unto themselves the law - or just 'law' without the 'the'. They are not the Ten Commandments. It needs Revelation - The Holy Spirit speaking - through the Scriptures, to reveal the things pertaing both to God and sin. The Scriptures - we shall be disciplined by the Scriptures or we shall go our own wanton way.
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rstrats said:
GE
God not only did not tell Adam to keep the Sabbath; He PREVENTED Adam to enter upon His Sabbath-Rest-Day or His Rest, or His Blessing, or His Sanctification, or His Finishing / Perfecting, or His Revival / Regeneration on and of the Seventh Day - as Hebrews says, "BECAUSE OF UNBELIEF". Do not try to trick God; you will come off second best! "But we who believe, do enter in" is also said "somewhere"!
Trustiti,
"My point all along has been to show both sides they are wrong to say that their day is THE right one."
GE
I don't care about the wrong or right of any 'side'; I don't believe in the phantom of 'free choice'. What does the Scriptures say? is all I'm interested in -- all the Scriptures, not just the Old or just the New Testament, But "ALL the Scriptures". Because Jesus showed how ALL the Scriptures witness of Him. If just this or that, or only the very 'best' of Scriptures without all the rest not so very good - a proclamation is going on that is not a proclamation of the Christ of God, but of men's preferences and fears. (Of those two things!)
"My point all along has been to show both sides they are wrong to say that their day is THE right one."
GE
I don't care about the wrong or right of any 'side'; I don't believe in the phantom of 'free choice'. What does the Scriptures say? is all I'm interested in -- all the Scriptures, not just the Old or just the New Testament, But "ALL the Scriptures". Because Jesus showed how ALL the Scriptures witness of Him. If just this or that, or only the very 'best' of Scriptures without all the rest not so very good - a proclamation is going on that is not a proclamation of the Christ of God, but of men's preferences and fears. (Of those two things!)
Palalka51,
re: "Isn't it curious that they waited until the first day of the week to break bread?"
GE
Isn't it curious you never tried to answer this one to yourself? Huh, Why not? You're scared? Is it not curious, indeed, they waited not, until the first day of the week to break bread, but broke bread (of Holy Communion) on the day that has just been ended by the "evening" Luke mentioned! Check up your grammars for the use and meaning of the Perfect! (I'm tired of it!)
re: "Isn't it curious that they waited until the first day of the week to break bread?"
GE
Isn't it curious you never tried to answer this one to yourself? Huh, Why not? You're scared? Is it not curious, indeed, they waited not, until the first day of the week to break bread, but broke bread (of Holy Communion) on the day that has just been ended by the "evening" Luke mentioned! Check up your grammars for the use and meaning of the Perfect! (I'm tired of it!)
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
Gen 2 (Jamieson, Fausset, Brown)
3. blessed and sanctified the seventh day--a peculiar distinction put upon it above the other six days, and showing it was devoted to sacred purposes. The institution of the Sabbath is as old as creation, giving rise to that weekly division of time which prevailed in the earliest ages. It is a wise and beneficent law, affording that regular interval of rest which the physical nature of man and the animals employed in his service requires, and the neglect of which brings both to premature decay. Moreover, it secures an appointed season for religious worship, and if it was necessary in a state of primeval innocence, how much more so now, when mankind has a strong tendency to forget God and His claims?
http://www.studylight.org/com/jfb/view.cgi?book=ge&chapter=002
As Christ said -- "The Sabbath was MADE for MANKIND" Mark 2:27
3. blessed and sanctified the seventh day--a peculiar distinction put upon it above the other six days, and showing it was devoted to sacred purposes. The institution of the Sabbath is as old as creation, giving rise to that weekly division of time which prevailed in the earliest ages. It is a wise and beneficent law, affording that regular interval of rest which the physical nature of man and the animals employed in his service requires, and the neglect of which brings both to premature decay. Moreover, it secures an appointed season for religious worship, and if it was necessary in a state of primeval innocence, how much more so now, when mankind has a strong tendency to forget God and His claims?
http://www.studylight.org/com/jfb/view.cgi?book=ge&chapter=002
As Christ said -- "The Sabbath was MADE for MANKIND" Mark 2:27
"blessed and sanctified the seventh day" -- without and outside and exclusive of Christ?
"a peculiar distinction put upon it above the other six days" -- without and outside and exclusive of Christ?
"and showing it was devoted to sacred purposes" -- without and outside and exclusive of Christ?
The institution of the Sabbath is as old as creation redeemed in and through Jesus Christ -- giving rise to that weekly division of time which prevailed in the earliest Christian Church.
It is a gracious and beneficent gift from Christ to His Church, affording that regular appointment of Worship-Rest which the spiritual nature of man employed in His service as His Church, requires -- the neglect of which brings both believer and Church to premature decay.
Moreover, it secures the recreational season for Christian Congregation and Witness, and if it was necessary in a state of primeval innocence for the Church, how much more so now, when mankind has a strong tendency to forget God and chase after vanity? -- "The Sabbath was MADE" that is, "instituted and purposed, for man's sake" in salvation through Christ Jesus. Mark 2:27 "God thus indeed concerning the Seventh Day spake ... through the Son ... in these last days", Hb4 and 1.
"a peculiar distinction put upon it above the other six days" -- without and outside and exclusive of Christ?
"and showing it was devoted to sacred purposes" -- without and outside and exclusive of Christ?
The institution of the Sabbath is as old as creation redeemed in and through Jesus Christ -- giving rise to that weekly division of time which prevailed in the earliest Christian Church.
It is a gracious and beneficent gift from Christ to His Church, affording that regular appointment of Worship-Rest which the spiritual nature of man employed in His service as His Church, requires -- the neglect of which brings both believer and Church to premature decay.
Moreover, it secures the recreational season for Christian Congregation and Witness, and if it was necessary in a state of primeval innocence for the Church, how much more so now, when mankind has a strong tendency to forget God and chase after vanity? -- "The Sabbath was MADE" that is, "instituted and purposed, for man's sake" in salvation through Christ Jesus. Mark 2:27 "God thus indeed concerning the Seventh Day spake ... through the Son ... in these last days", Hb4 and 1.
Several very early Christian writers and historians attest to the fact that Christians regularly assembled on the first day of the week, citing the resurrection of Jesus as the reason for observing the Lord's Day. These writers include Barnabas (AD 100), Ignatius of Antioch (107), Justin Martyr (145), Bardaisan (154), Irenaeus (178), Tertullian (180), Cyprian (200), Saint Victorinus (280), and Eusebius of Caesarea (324) [Note: dates are traditional and approximate]. These early Christians believed that the resurrection and ascension of Christ signals the renewal of creation, making the day on which God accomplished it a day analogous to the first day of creation when God made the light. It is a day of fulfillment of the Jewish Shabbat which preceded it, an "eighth day" on which sin was overcome and death was conquered. Therefore the first day has become like the seventh day when God's creating work attained to its goal, a day on which man attained to the goal of rest in God. Reasoning this way, some wrote of the first day as a greater day than the Sabbath, an "eighth day" on which, through Christ, mankind was redeemed out of futility and brought into the Sabbath-rest of God. However, these writers do not call the day a Sabbath.
The Didache (AD 70-120?) uses the term (kyriaken), which literally means "the Lord's," with the word hemera ("day") being ellided. In extrabiblical Christian literature, always refers to Sunday[29] except for two early instances where textual readings have given rise to questions of proper translation. The use of in the Didache is one of those instances. The Greek expression normally translated as "On the Lord's day" in the Didache is (Holmes M. The Apostolic Fathers - Greek Texts and English Translations), which literally would be rendered in English as "On the Lord's [day] of the Lord". Consequently, Didache 14 has often been translated as "On the Lord's own day, gather yourselves together and break bread and give thanks," apparently a reference to the weekly Sunday Eucharist (cf. Acts 2:42; 20:7). Some who dispute this translation argue that it should be translated "according to the Lord's commandment gather yourselves together to break bread...".
The Epistle of Barnabas (120-150) uses Isaiah 1:13 to suggest that the "eighth day" marks the resurrection, and as such denotes the completion of God's work of saving mankind from sin. Although there is dispute over whether this is a correct interpretation of Isaiah, it is a good indication that Sunday observance was a common practice in Christianity at that time.
The Didache (AD 70-120?) uses the term (kyriaken), which literally means "the Lord's," with the word hemera ("day") being ellided. In extrabiblical Christian literature, always refers to Sunday[29] except for two early instances where textual readings have given rise to questions of proper translation. The use of in the Didache is one of those instances. The Greek expression normally translated as "On the Lord's day" in the Didache is (Holmes M. The Apostolic Fathers - Greek Texts and English Translations), which literally would be rendered in English as "On the Lord's [day] of the Lord". Consequently, Didache 14 has often been translated as "On the Lord's own day, gather yourselves together and break bread and give thanks," apparently a reference to the weekly Sunday Eucharist (cf. Acts 2:42; 20:7). Some who dispute this translation argue that it should be translated "according to the Lord's commandment gather yourselves together to break bread...".
The Epistle of Barnabas (120-150) uses Isaiah 1:13 to suggest that the "eighth day" marks the resurrection, and as such denotes the completion of God's work of saving mankind from sin. Although there is dispute over whether this is a correct interpretation of Isaiah, it is a good indication that Sunday observance was a common practice in Christianity at that time.
Most christian fellowships who gather regularly on Sunday do not think of it as the Sabbath.
We are christians, not Jews. The "Sabbath" has no relavence to christians at all. We have no obligation to gather on Saturday, just like we have no obligation to gather on Sunday. There is no specified day to gather for christians. Our instruction is to...
In Acts it says that some gathered every day.
During my 25 years as a christian I have sometimes gathered on Sunday, sometimes Saturday, sometimes both. I went a year or so back in the late 80's gathering only on Thursday nights.
To answer the question, the reason that Sunday is the day the majority of christians gather is because it is widely held that Christ was resurrected on that day.
But we are under no obligation whatsoever to meet on Sunday or any other day.
Just GATHER REGULARY! That is the important thing.
I am observing the day on Sunday evening these days. I prefer it to Sunday mornings. Its seems there is too much of a "performance" mentality on Sunday mornings. Everybody all "dressed up" and all that stuff.
Sunday evenings are much more laid back and spiritually uplifing for me. In addition, I usually dont get up until about noon time due to my sleep schedule, so when I go to church in the morning I'm fighting off falling asleep in the pew.
It was a great relief to me when God got this word to me...
"Mike, why are you torturing yourself like this every week??? Just go to the evening service!"
I'm almost never there in the morning, but always there in the evening.
God bless
Mike
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BobRyan
Well-Known Member
D28guy said:
Now see -- there are places where both sides readily agree.
Isaiah 66 "From Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to Worship".
Is it your position that "all mankind" will become Jews instead of Christians at the 2nd coming? In the New Earth?
Mark 2:27 "The Sabbath was MADE for MANKIND" -
Is it your position that prior to the cross - -ALL mankind were Jews?
Again -- a point of agreement.
Again -- a point of agreement.
Once a year? Once a month? Once every ten days??
Why weekly?? What is the weekly cycle based on ?
in Christ,
Bob
Bound
"Several very early Christian writers and historians attest to the fact that Christians regularly assembled on the first day of the week, citing the resurrection of Jesus as the reason for observing the Lord's Day. These writers include Barnabas (AD 100), Ignatius of Antioch (107), Justin Martyr (145), Bardaisan (154), Irenaeus (178), Tertullian (180), Cyprian (200), Saint Victorinus (280), and Eusebius of Caesarea (324)"
GE
Barnabas (AD 100), NEVER 'attested' to the fallacy that Christians regularly assembled on the first day of the week; he NEVER cited the resurrection of Jesus as the reason for observing the Lord's Day. He NEVER mentions 'the Lord's Day'. Get your 'facts' right, first. If you can show me where Barnabas 'cites' 'the Lord's Day', I here in this post undertake to reward you one thousand Dollars - American Dollars. The money lies ready to be sent; just show me.
Ignatius of Antioch (107), NEVER 'attested' to the fallacy that Christians regularly assembled on the first day of the week; he NEVER cited the resurrection of Jesus as the reason for observing the First Day of the week. Get your 'facts' right, first!
Justin Martyr (145), 'attested' to the fact that some Christians assembled on the first day of the week; and he cites the resurrection of Jesus as the reason for observing the First Day of the week - NOT, the 'Lord's Day'. He NEVER mentions 'the Lord's Day'. Get your 'facts' right, first! Justin corrupted the Word of God - Mt28:1 - in support his LIES. Once again, that $1000 are lying ready to be sent to you if you can quote Justin martyr where he claims that Jesus rose from the dead on 'The Lord's Day'!
Bardaisan (154), First time I hear of him! I very much doubt your claims!
Irenaeus (178), NEVER 'attested' to the fallacy that Christians regularly assembled on the first day of the week; he NEVER cited the resurrection of Jesus as the reason for observing the Lord's Day. He NEVER mentions 'the Lord's Day'. [Come to think of it, may be he does - too long ago I read him.] Get your 'facts' right, first
Tertullian (180), Cyprian (200), Saint Victorinus (280), and Eusebius of Caesarea (324) -- I don't care what they said. Useless information!
"Several very early Christian writers and historians attest to the fact that Christians regularly assembled on the first day of the week, citing the resurrection of Jesus as the reason for observing the Lord's Day. These writers include Barnabas (AD 100), Ignatius of Antioch (107), Justin Martyr (145), Bardaisan (154), Irenaeus (178), Tertullian (180), Cyprian (200), Saint Victorinus (280), and Eusebius of Caesarea (324)"
GE
Barnabas (AD 100), NEVER 'attested' to the fallacy that Christians regularly assembled on the first day of the week; he NEVER cited the resurrection of Jesus as the reason for observing the Lord's Day. He NEVER mentions 'the Lord's Day'. Get your 'facts' right, first. If you can show me where Barnabas 'cites' 'the Lord's Day', I here in this post undertake to reward you one thousand Dollars - American Dollars. The money lies ready to be sent; just show me.
Ignatius of Antioch (107), NEVER 'attested' to the fallacy that Christians regularly assembled on the first day of the week; he NEVER cited the resurrection of Jesus as the reason for observing the First Day of the week. Get your 'facts' right, first!
Justin Martyr (145), 'attested' to the fact that some Christians assembled on the first day of the week; and he cites the resurrection of Jesus as the reason for observing the First Day of the week - NOT, the 'Lord's Day'. He NEVER mentions 'the Lord's Day'. Get your 'facts' right, first! Justin corrupted the Word of God - Mt28:1 - in support his LIES. Once again, that $1000 are lying ready to be sent to you if you can quote Justin martyr where he claims that Jesus rose from the dead on 'The Lord's Day'!
Bardaisan (154), First time I hear of him! I very much doubt your claims!
Irenaeus (178), NEVER 'attested' to the fallacy that Christians regularly assembled on the first day of the week; he NEVER cited the resurrection of Jesus as the reason for observing the Lord's Day. He NEVER mentions 'the Lord's Day'. [Come to think of it, may be he does - too long ago I read him.] Get your 'facts' right, first
Tertullian (180), Cyprian (200), Saint Victorinus (280), and Eusebius of Caesarea (324) -- I don't care what they said. Useless information!
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Bound
"The Didache (AD 70-120?) uses the term (kyriaken), which literally means "the Lord's," with the word hemera ("day") being ellided. In extrabiblical Christian literature, always refers to Sunday[29] except for two early instances where textual readings have given rise to questions of proper translation. The use of in the Didache is one of those instances. The Greek expression normally translated as "On the Lord's day" in the Didache is (Holmes M. The Apostolic Fathers - Greek Texts and English Translations), which literally would be rendered in English as "On the Lord's [day] of the Lord". Consequently, Didache 14 has often been translated as "On the Lord's own day, gather yourselves together and break bread and give thanks," apparently a reference to the weekly Sunday Eucharist (cf. Acts 2:42; 20:7). Some who dispute this translation argue that it should be translated "according to the Lord's commandment gather yourselves together to break bread..."."
GE
The Didache ... the word hemera ("day") ... In extrabiblical Christian literature, always refers to Sunday except for two early instances where textual readings have given rise to questions of proper translation. ..." Outside the New Testament Didacheh is the earliest instance of the use of 'kyriakeh'. The only 'two earlier instances' are those of John in Rv1:10 and of Paul in 'The Lord's Supper'.
The use of in the Didache not in the least supposes or implies the First Day of the week. (See my dissertations of 1994, 'Lig op die Dag van die Here', (ISBN ... on request - don't remember it, book long since out of print. But if time allows I can supply the arguments.)
"... the weekly Sunday Eucharist (cf. Acts 2:42; 20:7). " A far fetched totally baseless and audacious theft of meaning for the fraud of 'Sunday Eucharist'! A shame and scandal!
"Some who dispute this translation argue that it should be translated "according to the Lord's commandment gather yourselves together to break bread...". Aren't you a bit mixed up with Ignatius, friend Bound?
"The Didache (AD 70-120?) uses the term (kyriaken), which literally means "the Lord's," with the word hemera ("day") being ellided. In extrabiblical Christian literature, always refers to Sunday[29] except for two early instances where textual readings have given rise to questions of proper translation. The use of in the Didache is one of those instances. The Greek expression normally translated as "On the Lord's day" in the Didache is (Holmes M. The Apostolic Fathers - Greek Texts and English Translations), which literally would be rendered in English as "On the Lord's [day] of the Lord". Consequently, Didache 14 has often been translated as "On the Lord's own day, gather yourselves together and break bread and give thanks," apparently a reference to the weekly Sunday Eucharist (cf. Acts 2:42; 20:7). Some who dispute this translation argue that it should be translated "according to the Lord's commandment gather yourselves together to break bread..."."
GE
The Didache ... the word hemera ("day") ... In extrabiblical Christian literature, always refers to Sunday except for two early instances where textual readings have given rise to questions of proper translation. ..." Outside the New Testament Didacheh is the earliest instance of the use of 'kyriakeh'. The only 'two earlier instances' are those of John in Rv1:10 and of Paul in 'The Lord's Supper'.
The use of in the Didache not in the least supposes or implies the First Day of the week. (See my dissertations of 1994, 'Lig op die Dag van die Here', (ISBN ... on request - don't remember it, book long since out of print. But if time allows I can supply the arguments.)
"... the weekly Sunday Eucharist (cf. Acts 2:42; 20:7). " A far fetched totally baseless and audacious theft of meaning for the fraud of 'Sunday Eucharist'! A shame and scandal!
"Some who dispute this translation argue that it should be translated "according to the Lord's commandment gather yourselves together to break bread...". Aren't you a bit mixed up with Ignatius, friend Bound?
D28guy
"To answer the question, the reason that Sunday is the day the majority of christians gather is because it is widely held that Christ was resurrected on that day.
But we are under no obligation whatsoever to meet on Sunday or any other day."
GE
If the fact Christ was raised on the day does not bring you as follower of Christ under obligation to meet on that day, you would not have Christians meeting together - and you by every chance would not have been a Christian either. From the practice of the New Testament Church no doubt whatsoever is left the Church for being the Church of Christ, met together for to worship Him and to celebrate His Salvation wrought, on the very day Christ availed and perfected salvation once for all! This absolute axioma of Christian Faith is vividly portrayed in Colossians 2:12-19, in Hebrews 4:4-10, in Acts in many places, and throughout the Four Gospels - they all having been based upon the Historic Realisation of Christ in the world for the Redemption of men from the damnation of sin.
"To answer the question, the reason that Sunday is the day the majority of christians gather is because it is widely held that Christ was resurrected on that day.
But we are under no obligation whatsoever to meet on Sunday or any other day."
GE
If the fact Christ was raised on the day does not bring you as follower of Christ under obligation to meet on that day, you would not have Christians meeting together - and you by every chance would not have been a Christian either. From the practice of the New Testament Church no doubt whatsoever is left the Church for being the Church of Christ, met together for to worship Him and to celebrate His Salvation wrought, on the very day Christ availed and perfected salvation once for all! This absolute axioma of Christian Faith is vividly portrayed in Colossians 2:12-19, in Hebrews 4:4-10, in Acts in many places, and throughout the Four Gospels - they all having been based upon the Historic Realisation of Christ in the world for the Redemption of men from the damnation of sin.
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
Gerhard Ebersoehn said:
All these are direct points for testing.
Should have an easy "yes" or "no".
As for calling "week-day-one the Lord's Day" it is clear that this eventually happened over time but it is not likely to have occurred in the first century.
Mark 2:27 the "Son of Man is LORD of the Sabbath" is as close as we get in scripture to a "designation" of a week-day one of THE seven - as "Lord's Day"
Well proving or disproving that should be fairly straightforward.
Certainly it can be argued that traditions starting 100 years or more afte the Disciples have left -- could be in error.
in Christ,
Bob
Bob,
I said...
And you said...
Thats up to the believer. Thats nobodies buisiness but his/hers. There is no legalistic "mandate". The scripture says "do not forsake the gathering of yourselves together, as is the manner of some."
It doesnt have to be weekly. Some in the 1st century gathered daily. Sometimes I'll go to 3 or more gatherings in the course of a week. Sometimes I'll miss a couple weeks or so, but I get kinda antsy to get in on one when I do because I miss the blessing I always get. :thumbs:
Could be because Gods people prior to Christ met regular once a week and it seemed like a good thing to continue, only on Sunday because of the resurrection. (pretty good reason, if you ask me!) They had the freedom to pick any day they wanted, and that was the one they chose. They had that freedom. But there is a difference between that and our being "commanded" to (((be in the building!))) every Sunday,(or any other day) and you are in (((big trouble!))) if you miss. There is no mentality of that sort under the new covenant.
God bless,
Mike
I said...
And you said...
Thats up to the believer. Thats nobodies buisiness but his/hers. There is no legalistic "mandate". The scripture says "do not forsake the gathering of yourselves together, as is the manner of some."
It doesnt have to be weekly. Some in the 1st century gathered daily. Sometimes I'll go to 3 or more gatherings in the course of a week. Sometimes I'll miss a couple weeks or so, but I get kinda antsy to get in on one when I do because I miss the blessing I always get. :thumbs:
Could be because Gods people prior to Christ met regular once a week and it seemed like a good thing to continue, only on Sunday because of the resurrection. (pretty good reason, if you ask me!) They had the freedom to pick any day they wanted, and that was the one they chose. They had that freedom. But there is a difference between that and our being "commanded" to (((be in the building!))) every Sunday,(or any other day) and you are in (((big trouble!))) if you miss. There is no mentality of that sort under the new covenant.
God bless,
Mike
Gerhard,
I said...
And you said...
If in any fellowship the christians are gathering because they "obligated" and they "have to" be there then that fellowship has big time problems. (I'm all for gathering of course, I'm only disagreeing with the motivation) Our gatherings should be a joyous celebration and the brothers and sisters should want to come and be blessed, and to be a blessing to others
Dont know about that. I became a christian because God rescued me and granted me new life one day 25 years ago. But I wasnt in a church, but rather laying in my bed at home late one night. And none of the witnessing I encountered came in a church. It was from brothers and sisters who shared the truth with me at work, on the street, at a hospital one time, etc etc.
And I have no problem with that at all. But the vast majority of the "work of ministry" should take place during those times when the "gathered" believers leave the meeting place and go out into the world, becoming the "scattered" believers. Infiltrating society and sharing Christ with people.
I heard of a church that had a sign just above the front door of the church. The sign said...
"Now is When the Work of Ministry Begins"
It was above the front door on the inside so people would see it on the way out.
God bless,
Mike
I said...
And you said...
If in any fellowship the christians are gathering because they "obligated" and they "have to" be there then that fellowship has big time problems. (I'm all for gathering of course, I'm only disagreeing with the motivation) Our gatherings should be a joyous celebration and the brothers and sisters should want to come and be blessed, and to be a blessing to others
Dont know about that. I became a christian because God rescued me and granted me new life one day 25 years ago. But I wasnt in a church, but rather laying in my bed at home late one night. And none of the witnessing I encountered came in a church. It was from brothers and sisters who shared the truth with me at work, on the street, at a hospital one time, etc etc.
And I have no problem with that at all. But the vast majority of the "work of ministry" should take place during those times when the "gathered" believers leave the meeting place and go out into the world, becoming the "scattered" believers. Infiltrating society and sharing Christ with people.
I heard of a church that had a sign just above the front door of the church. The sign said...
"Now is When the Work of Ministry Begins"
It was above the front door on the inside so people would see it on the way out.
God bless,
Mike
Bob,
No.
No.
The Sabbath rest for the Jews was the Saturday rest. But it was symbolic, and continues today only in a different form.
From Hebrews, regarding the Sabbath rest...
I became a "Sabbath Keeper" when I ceased trusting in my works, and placed my trust completly in the finished work of Christ. I entered into the rest that God had planned all along for those under the New Covenant.
Grace and peace,
Mike
No.
No.
The Sabbath rest for the Jews was the Saturday rest. But it was symbolic, and continues today only in a different form.
From Hebrews, regarding the Sabbath rest...
I became a "Sabbath Keeper" when I ceased trusting in my works, and placed my trust completly in the finished work of Christ. I entered into the rest that God had planned all along for those under the New Covenant.
Grace and peace,
Mike
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
So in your view Christ was saying "The Sabbath was created as a symbol for mankind - but as an actual day of rest just for Jews" by saying "The Sabbath was MADE for mankind"??
Doesn't it seem obvious that someone taking my view would want to have it stated as "the Sabbath was MADE for mankind and not mankind MADE for the Sabbath" (speaking of the MAKING of both) instead of "The Sabbath was merely a SYMBOL for mankind but was actually a day of rest for just Jews"? So when I read Mark 2 - my tendancy is going to be to leave it just as it reads.
It is left as an exercise for the readere to observe whether it is true that one of those written statements is perfectly tailored for the position I am accepting and the other is perfect for the one D28Guy is taking
I have to think that this is going to be an easy task.
in Christ,
Bob
Irenaeus (178), NEVER 'attested' to the fallacy that Christians regularly assembled on the first day of the week; he NEVER cited the resurrection of Jesus as the reason for observing the Lord's Day. He NEVER mentions 'the Lord's Day'. [Come to think of it, may be he does - too long ago I read him.] Get your 'facts' right, first
I have refreshed my memory - cannot find or think that Irenaeus used the term, 'kyriakeh / -kos'.
I have refreshed my memory - cannot find or think that Irenaeus used the term, 'kyriakeh / -kos'.