Why the vitriol?

[johnp.]

Hello Bob.

...as far as me thinking some people deserve to be hung...

I'm sorry Bob that was not an attack on you, I put it badly. I believe in capital punishment. The impression I get is that you think some people are better than others.

I know he said he deserved what he got. What made the man on the right different, Jesus was raised up and one was not drawn?

"32": And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

Why was the other not drawn? God knew before He created anyone who would go to Hell and who would go to Him. Those He knew would choose Hell were created regardless. Either they go to Hell because of their will or God's, doesn't really matter does it, they were created for Hell? Why draw those that He knew were Hell bound?

john.

 

[npetreley]

Originally posted by Brother Bob:
"32": And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

"33": This he said, signifying what death he should die.

Someone else dealt with the contradiction between the two verses with respect to "draw all men". (This is sometimes translated "draw all peoples" for that very reason.)

I want to deal with "if I be lifted up". Why the word "if"? Was it possible that Jesus would not be lifted up (crucified)?

I only ask because free willers in general love to quote verses with the word "if" in them, and they insist that because "if" appears, it demands uncertainty. So, in this case, does it demand uncertainty? Was it possible that Jesus would not be crucified?

 

[doulous]

If this is going to turn into a Calvinist/Arminian debate, why not start another thread?

 

[rsr]

This thread is completely off topic.

 

[npetreley]

Originally posted by rsr:
This thread is completely off topic.

Count how many threads stay on topic. It'll save time.

 

[Brother Bob]

I am out but johnp we had a nice discussion without any anger I enjoyed very much debating with you and that is how it should be done as a matter of fact this should be an example for others to follow. Maybe they will put it on the home page just as an example.

 

[johnp.]

Cool Bob. See you around.

john.