Are not the "SPECIFIC THINGS", the things listed in verse sixteen? Compared to 2 Cor. 5:19.
-
Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
WHY Universal Reconciliation is wrong ?
- Thread starter dan p
- Start date
Are not the "SPECIFIC THINGS", the things listed in verse sixteen? Compared to 2 Cor. 5:19.
Universalists don't believe in the trinity eather? That Jesus is God....the Jehovah of the Old Testement?
Last edited by a moderator:
Actually, some of them do. When I lived in the Northeast I lived next to a Trinitarian Universalist church. You will find more about them here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trinitarian_Universalism
Seems they are a 'conservative' branch of Universalism.
So God will reconcile Satan to himself too?? Universalism says ALL THINGS right? Where do the demons fit in?
Last edited by a moderator:
Purgatory ?
Hi lori4dogs , and I am not saying I believe in Purgatory , but UR believe that those in the Lake of fire will be given a chance to get out .
Hi lori4dogs , and I am not saying I believe in Purgatory , but UR believe that those in the Lake of fire will be given a chance to get out .
Ta panta
hI , and , on Tue the 6 , I have found where they put my OP . In , Col 1:16-20 , TA PANTA is used 4 times and in verse 17 , PANTA is used 1 time and also TA PANTA is used with " the all things consist " .
God is NOT going to reconcile all thing to Himself , why would He want bad things ?
2 Cor 5:19 is a different .
Most Dispensationalists , believe that this is the commission , or MARCHINGS ORDERS for the Body of Christ and that is havin PLACED with us the word of Reconciliation to the world .
hI , and , on Tue the 6 , I have found where they put my OP . In , Col 1:16-20 , TA PANTA is used 4 times and in verse 17 , PANTA is used 1 time and also TA PANTA is used with " the all things consist " .
God is NOT going to reconcile all thing to Himself , why would He want bad things ?
2 Cor 5:19 is a different .
Most Dispensationalists , believe that this is the commission , or MARCHINGS ORDERS for the Body of Christ and that is havin PLACED with us the word of Reconciliation to the world .
I get your point. Thanks.
The salvation of God?
1. How is a person saved?
2. Why did Christ die, and shed his blood. What was the purpose?
3. Who is God? Is he a triune being? Do you believe in the trinity?
4. Is Jesus God? Is He deity, the second person of the triune Godhead.
5. What is the purpose of the Lake of Fire mentioned in Rev.20:10-15
6. What does it mean in verse ten (above) "and shall be tormented day and night forever and ever."
7. Is there eternal life? For who?
8. Is there eternal death? For who?
Please answer my questions for me.
That is your opinion; so far what I have seen on these forums most of you are not christian either. Words like hell, rapture, second coming, trinity, eternal death. These are not scriptural terms their religous so get off you high horse and start seeking truth.
Do not know the man.
Hey doc here is a simple question for such a learn self rightous know it all like you self. Show me one verse in scripture where the word gehenna is used with the lost? Notice God's Word use the word "brother".
So what do you have to stand on your bias religous opinion?
I am using God's Word for proof.
Gehenna: Those who go to Gehenna are not sinners of the world; but are sinners of God’s people. (how precious is this a type of purification outside of God’s holy city. Mentioned twelve or thirteen times in the gospel. This is the word the fundamental preachers love to use to burn up the sinner. They are the first to yell foul if something does not fit in context; BUT: Gehenna: Referring to the Valley of Hinnom, or Gehenna which is the city dump outside the walls of Jerusalem; a place of constant burning of refuge. All things that are not of God will be purified bf God’s holy judgment. This word is used not for sinner, murders or liars; it is used with the word “BROTHER”.
Matthew 5:22
But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell (Gehenna) fire.
Not true. Church history shows that the concept of universalism was taught in most of the major theology schools in the very beginning of the early Church...
From Wikipedia...
"In Christianity, Universalism refers to the belief that all humans will be saved through Jesus Christ and eventually come to a harmony in God's kingdom. A related doctrine, apokatastasis, is the belief that all mortal beings will be reconciled to God, including Satan and his fallen angels (not all CU agree to this). Universalism was a fairly commonly held view among theologians in early Christianity: In the first five or six centuries of Christianity there were six known theological schools, of which four (Alexandria, Antioch, Cesarea, and Edessa or Nisibis) were Universalist, one (Ephesus) accepted conditional immortality, and one (Carthage or Rome) taught the endless punishment of the lost.[1]. The two major theologians opposing it were Tertullian and Augustine.[citation needed] In later centuries, Universalism has become very much a minority position in the major branches of Christianity, though it has a long history of prominent adherents."
• John the Apostle (John 4:42)
• The Didascalia (the Catechetical school of Alexandria)
• Pantaenus, first head of catechetical school at Alexandria
• Clement of Alexandria, second head of catechetical school at Alexandria
• Origen, greatest scholar of the early church
• Athenasius, Archbishop of Alexandria
• Didymus
• Ambrose, Bishop
• Ephraim
• Chrysostum
• Gregory of Nyssa, Bishop
• Gregory of Nazianzus, Bishop and President of the second Church council
• Titus, Bishop of Bostra
These are a sample of the Christian Church in the first three hundred years.
Here is a list of well known people since the beginning. Included are three of your Presidents who if they were not full UC were supportive of it... Abraham Lincoln, Benjamin Franklin, and George Washington. Other names, like the Bronte sisters, William Wallace (Braveheart), Robert and Elizabeth Browning, and a modern theologian and translator, William Barclay..
One of my best friend is a Christian Universalist and a trinitarian. I not.
This is not true. Satan is a spirit and God created him for a purpose. By the way Satan is not Lucifer unless you believe Rome.
This is true the Lake of Fire is spiritual in nature.
How can creation be bad. Did not God cause the fall? Did not God create man in his own image and likeness?
The first Adam died to God and righteousness, and became alive unto sin. The last Adam died unto sin-- "For in that He died, He died unto sin once: but in that He liveth, He liveth unto God," (Romans 6:10), and so fulfills all righteousness. The first Adam made all men sinners, the last Adam makes all men righteous. The lives and deaths of the two Adams are thus greatly contrasting the one to the other.
The second death is a transition from corruption to incorruption, from present mortality to immortality. Transformed from the carnal mind to the spiritual min. It is a transformation wrought by DYING out to the one realm, to come alive to the higher realm. The SECOND DEATH IS PREPARED TO PURGE OUT AND BURN AWAY ALL SIN AND ITS RESULTS, and in so doing cleanse all of God's universe.
Death came as an enemy, the fruitage of an act of disobedience that turned man away from God, and into the minding of the flesh. Now, GOD MAKES DEATH OVERCOME ITSELF. It is by death that death is rendered powerless, and there arises the bursting forth of new life. It took the death of Christ to destroy death, and thus He did "taste death for ever man.- That through death He might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; and deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage." (Hebrews 2:9, 14-15). In that He tasted (experienced) death for, in behalf of, every man, this was not to absolve us from dying, but to make sure, guarantee that ever man would die once more time-- in a second death that would end all the work of the first death in us. Paul caught a glimpse of this precious truth when he said, "Because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: and He died for all, that they who live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto Him which died for them, and rose again."
(2 Corinthians 5:14-15). Calvary guarantees that ultimately every man will die out to self. Thus Paul's desire to be "made conformable to His death," for in that DYING PROCESS he would be brought to the threshold of resurrection life. The Christ-life is not to be lived instead of us, but freely given INTO us that we might live. Thus we experience both His death and His life. Through the first we experience both His death and His life. Through the first Adam we experienced natural, self-life, and ended in death. Through the last Adam we experience death to the self-life, and end up by LIVING-- living in His more abundant life. Wonderful!
"It is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment." (Hebrews 9:27). This does not mean that we must all die physically, for Paul clearly taught, "We shall not all sleep (physical death), but we shall all be changed." (1 Corinthians 15:51). Since every man has already tasted of the first death when they are born into this earth realm, it is now APPOINTED UNTO ALL MEN TO DIE ONCE MORE-- die out to the realm of the first death, that they might come alive unto God. After this, there must come judgment, namely, that process of correction, purging, training, development, a bringing into maturity into the new life of God.
It may be that God uses our "physical death," which is the last visible outworking of the first death, to also become part of HIS PROCESS of the "second death," to loose us from the bonds of the carnal mind, to where we surrender to the will of God. "For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that He might be lord both of the dead and the living." (Romans 14:9). The KEYS are in His hand, and He may use any part of the process to accomplish any part of His purpose that He desires. He now holds the key to the "first death," so that even our natural life is in His hand, and He also holds the key to the "second death," and the outworking of its process in us all.
In the measure that we are identified with the cross of Christ, and made conformable to His death, in that measure we are dying out to the first death, via the process of the second death, that we might then be partakers of His resurrection.
"He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death." (Revelation 2:11). There is a yielding to the spirit now, when He draws us. There is a participation in His cross now. There is a DAILY OVERCOMING all of the carnal desires of the flesh, and then we shall not be "hurt" when the second death processes are manifested in their more severe forms, as portrayed in the terms of being "cast into outer darkness," or being in "a lake of fire."
There are those who build with wood, hay, and stubble (flesh works), which shall all be burned, and then "he shall suffer loss; but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire".(1 Corinthians 310). In fact it was said to the slothful servant, "Take therefore the talent from him... and cast ye the unprofitable servant into out darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." (Matthew 25:28, 30). That will hurt-- for it means that such are a part of "the dead which live not again until the thousand years are ended." Not until the inward purgings are complete will they be released into the fulness of His life-- thus they have suffered the loss of "living and reigning with Him" these are still being brought to the fulness of their purification through the second death process.
Numbers are symbolic of ideas and concepts. It is not a literal "thousand year death span," for the issue is not that "time" but of the FULNESS OF MEASURE-- a completed work. It is a multiple of ten, which number signifies a complete cycle. The thought is that while others are enjoying the fulness of His life, "living and reigning with Him," these are still being brought to the fulness of their purification through he second death process.
Jesus made this very clear-- there are those who "shall go away into age-abiding correction, but the righteous into age-abiding life." (Matthew 25:46, Rotherham). For the time is coming when ALL shall hear His voice, "And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation (judgment)." (John 5:29).
But the overcomer shall suffer no loss, no injury, as do those who only mind the flesh, for they build aright, so that "an entrance shall be ministered unto them abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ." (2 Peter 1:11). And then their Lord shall say, 'Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy Lord." (Matthew 25:21).
Ray Prinzing
What was that about no personal attacks? Shall I replay the tape for you??