Why was McCarthy Removed?

[KenH]

Yes, millions will suffer.

As I said, then the federal government is TOO large, TOO intrusive, and its scope is TOO far.

 

[Wingman68]

 

[JonC]

As I said, then the federal government is TOO large, TOO intrusive, and its scope is TOO far.

I agree that the government is to large.

I disagree that the military, government departments, federal contractors, and businesses relying on those entities being in the millions means that the government is too large.

The military alone is over a million people. I do not believe that we should reduce the military in order to maintain a smaller government.

I can't speak to all federal contractors, but when you have a nuclear site you have to have people to operate that site. You can't simply leave it closed. You can't give away or sell the site. You can't give away the nuclear material. It has nothing to do with scope or intrusiveness. And that's just one site.

 

[KenH]

The military alone is over a million people. I do not believe that we should reduce the military in order to maintain a smaller government.

I am not talking about the military. I am not sure that the size of the military cannot be reduced. I advocate closing all military bases on foreign soil and bringing all of the military personnel home to the United States, except for those protecting places such as embassies. After the United States does that, then a discussion can be had as to how many people are needed in the military and how much money is to be spent. Frankly, I do not see any way to balance the budget without reducing military spending, including all military aid to foreign countries and all foreign aid of any kind for any purpose.

Also, the first thing that returning troops should be used for is to protect the borders of the United States, a subject that the Republicans and Democrats in Congress have failed to comprehensively address since 1986, 37 years ago.

 

[Revmitchell]

All of the personal attacks against those in congress with whom folks around here disagree with does not speak to the issue. This thread has been nothing but people venting. Personal opinion disguised as facts. Whether you agree with Gaetz or not McCarthy did not do what he said he would do. When McCarthy was originally voted on he made promises in order to garner votes. He then failed to keep them. The issues in question were communicated to McCarthy in the original vote for him that they would need to be kept to continue support. Those on the Republican side that voted to oust him are only doing what they told McCarthy they would do from the start. This is not a surprise.

 

[JonC]

All of the personal attacks against those in congress with whom folks around here disagree with does not speak to the issue. This thread has been nothing but people venting. Personal opinion disguised as facts. Whether you agree with Gaetz or not McCarthy did not do what he said he would do. When McCarthy was originally voted on he made promises in order to garner votes. He then failed to keep them. The issues in question were communicated to McCarthy in the original vote for him that they would need to be kept to continue support. Those on the Republican side that voted to oust him are only doing what they told McCarthy they would do from the start. This is not a surprise.

It is not a surprise that all of them fail to do what they said they would do.

I agree it wasn't a surprise. I will contend that it was irresponsible at the time. Not only did the Democrats plus 8 vote the guy out, but then they went home instead of working.

I don't know about you, but if Congress is on a 45 day timeline I believe they should work for those 45 days to come to an agreement.

It is about priorities, I guess. That's my complaint.

 

[Revmitchell]

The Ukraine funding made it worth it alone.

 

[canadyjd]

Boebert hit the nail on the head. It simply was not the time. Congress is in a 45 day period where they have failed their Constitutional duty. Politically it was the worst time as it hands ammo to the DNC.

It is the exact right time. A “continuing resolution” keeps the spending at the bloated levels of the previous budget. Dems and the WH would love that for the next 5 years.

These 8 repubs are heroes. They are forcing congress to deal with the out of control deficit spending.

In essence, they took the credit card away from an elderly grandpa that stole the grandkids credit card was spending wildly at the casino knowing he will never be responsible to pay it back.

peace to you

 

[KenH]

They are forcing congress to deal with the out of control deficit spending.

Will they? Will they really?

Unfortunately, the history of congressional Republicans(and to a lesser extent congressional Democrats, as they don't tend to the deficit and debt as a talking point) has been:

1) We are going to deal with the deficit and the debt.

Then the next time:

2) We really mean it this time. We are going to deal with the deficit and the debt.

Then the next time:

3) We really, really mean it this time.

Then the next time:

4) We really, really, really mean it this time.

Then the next time:

5) We really, really, really, really mean it this time. Cross our heart!

And on and on and on.

 

[KenH]

Not only did the Democrats plus 8 vote the guy out, but then they went home instead of working.

It should be noted that, since the Republicans control the House, it was the Republicans who closed down the House for a week.

The continuing resolution last weekend was a bad idea. All they did was to do what the Republicans and Democrats have been doing for years on any major issue - kicking the can down the road.

If this behavior continues, then one day there will no longer be a can to kick.

 

[JonC]

It is the exact right time. A “continuing resolution” keeps the spending at the bloated levels of the previous budget. Dems and the WH would love that for the next 5 years.

These 8 repubs are heroes. They are forcing congress to deal with the out of control deficit spending.

In essence, they took the credit card away from an elderly grandpa that stole the grandkids credit card was spending wildly at the casino knowing he will never be responsible to pay it back.

peace to you

They are holding the American people hostage.

I agree with you in terms of spending. The issue is we knew both sides would use the fiscal year as a pawn. They always do in an election year.

I work for a federal contract company. They held funding to accommodate the shutdown for about a month. This was built in the budged for the past fiscal year. We all knew the parties would hold us hostage.

But now we are talking about a stop gap (keeping the government running while continuing to seek a compromise both sides will accept).

The 8 are, in this case, Democrat pawns.

I'm not saying McCarthy shouldn't have been removed. I doubt they will get anybody better ...or worse.

But on this issue those 8 were essentially Democrats. Many Republicans want cuts. But they were less willing to sacrifice Americans to get them.....at least for now.

 

[JonC]

It should be noted that, since the Republicans control the House, it was the Republicans who closed down the House for a week.

The continuing resolution last weekend was a bad idea. All they did was to do what the Republicans and Democrats have been doing for years on any major issue - kicking the can down the road.

If this behavior continues, then one day there will no longer be a can to kick.

I agree.

The problem is both parties are corrupt and in control of our nation. I don't think we can expect anything better.

In the last 50 years, the federal government budget has run a surplus five times. The most recent was 2001.

 

[KenH]

The 8 are, in this case, Democrat pawns.

Nope. Gaetz and his fellow rebels initiated the action, not the Democrats.

But on this issue those 8 were essentially Democrats.

An unfair and inaccurate description. What Gaetz and his fellow rebels accomplished, they accomplished as Republicans for their purposes as Republicans.

 

[JonC]

Nope. Gaetz and his fellow rebels initiated the action, not the Democrats.



An unfair and inaccurate description. What Gaetz and his fellow rebels accomplished, they accomplished as Republicans for their purposes as Republicans.

208 Democrats+8 Republicans. You could say Democrats were Republican pawns....I guess.

My point is that on this issue the 216 people were the same.

Call them Democrats because 208/216 were Democrats (and all Democrats supported Gaetz) or call them Republicans because 8/216 were Republicans voting against 210 Republicans. Results are the same....there were two groups in opposition to one another.

 

[KenH]

In the last 50 years, the federal government budget has run a surplus five times. The most recent was 2001.

Actually, the number is zero times.

Using the numbers from US National Debt by Year (thebalancemoney.com), the national debt has increased every year since my first year of life - 1956 - 67 years ago.

Year Debt in Billions % of GDP

1955 $274 64%
1956 $273 61%
1957 $271 57% Recession
1958 $276 58% Eisenhower's 2nd term and recession
1959 $285 55% Fed raised rates
1960 $286 54% Recession
1961 $289 52% Bay of Pigs
1962 $298 50% JFK budgets and Cuban missile crisis
1963 $306 48% U.S. aids Vietnam, JFK killed
1964 $312 46% LBJ's budgets and war on poverty
1965 $317 43% U.S. entered Vietnam War
1966 $320 40%
1967 $326 40%
1968 $348 39%
1969 $354 36% Nixon took office
1970 $371 35% Recession
1971 $398 35% Wage-price controls
1972 $427 34% Stagflation
1973 $458 33% Nixon ended gold standard and OPEC oil embargo
1974 $475 31% Watergate and budget process created
1975 $533 32% Vietnam War ended
1976 $620 33% Stagflation
1977 $699 34% Stagflation
1978 $772 33% Carter budgets and recession
1979 $827 32%
1980 $908 32% Volcker raised fed rate to 20%
1981 $998 31% Reagan tax cut
1982 $1,142 34% Reagan increased spending
1983 $1,377 37% Jobless rate 10.8%
1984 $1,572 38% Increased defense spending
1985 $1,823 41%
1986 $2,125 46% Reagan lowered taxes
1987 $2,350 48% Market crash
1988 $2,602 50% Fed raised rates
1989 $2,857 51% S&L Crisis
1990 $3,233 54% First Iraq War
1991 $3,665 58% Recession
1992 $4,065 61%
1993 $4,411 63% Omnibus Budget Act
1994 $4,693 64% Clinton budgets
1995 $4,974 64%
1996 $5,225 64% Welfare reform
1997 $5,413 63%
1998 $5,526 60% LTCM crisis and recession
1999 $5,656 58% Glass-Steagall repealed
2000 $5,674 55% Budget surplus
2001 $5,807 55% 9/11 attacks and EGTRRA
2002 $6,228 57% War on Terror
2003 $6,783 59% JGTRRA and Iraq War
2004 $7,379 60% Iraq War
2005 $7,933 61% Bankruptcy Act and Hurricane Katrina.
2006 $8,507 61% Bernanke chaired Fed
2007 $9,008 62% Bank crisis
2008 $10,025 68% Bank bailout and QE
2009 $11,910 82% Bailout cost $250B ARRA added $242B
2010 $13,562 90% ARRA added $400B, payroll tax holiday ended, Obama Tax cuts, ACA, Simpson-Bowles
2011 $14,790 95% Debt crisis, recession and tax cuts reduced revenue
2012 $16,066 99% Fiscal cliff
2013 $16,738 99% Sequester, government shutdown
2014 $17,824 101% QE ended, debt ceiling crisis
2015 $18,151 100% Oil prices fell
2016 $19,573 105% Brexit
2017 $20,245 104% Congress raised the debt ceiling
2018 $21,516 105% Trump tax cuts
2019 $22,719 107% Trade wars
2020 $27,748 129% COVID-19 and 2020 recession
2021 $29,617 124% COVID-19 and American Rescue Plan Act
2022 $30,824 123% Inflation Reduction Act and student loan forgiveness

 

[KenH]

208 Democrats+8 Republicans. You could say Democrats were Republican pawns....I guess.

My point is that on this issue the 216 people were the same.

Call them Democrats because 208/216 were Democrats (and all Democrats supported Gaetz) or call them Republicans because 8/216 were Republicans voting against 210 Republicans. Results are the same....there were two groups in opposition to one another.

My point is that Gaetz and his fellow rebels were acting as Republicans. Actually, considering that the GOP has built much of its brand in recent decades as being for reducing the size, reach, and scope of government and balancing the yearly budget, it could be said that Gaetz and his fellow rebels acted as the only true Republicans and that the other 210 who voted as Republicans acted as(to use a term that gets bandied about a lot) Republicans In Name Only (RINOs).

 

[KenH]

In the last 50 years, the federal government budget has run a surplus five times. The most recent was 2001.

I should note that in those years that a budget surplus was claimed in recent decades that the national debt still increased in those years, Thus, the supposed surplus was in accounting methods only and not in the direction of the national debt.

 

[canadyjd]

They are holding the American people hostage…. .

Regurgitating liberal hyperbole again?

Just an attempt to shut down debate on a rational, sustainable, responsible budget.

BTW, it goes both ways.

Anyone who opposes this effort wants to push $89,000 a year debt on our children and grandchildren. They are destroying our children’s future. They are attempting to bankrupt this country so the communists can take over.

What are said is much closer to truth than the repubs “holding the American people hostage” nonsense.

peace to you

 

[KenH]

In the last 50 years, the federal government budget has run a surplus five times. The most recent was 2001.

Also, if the national debt was still the 31% of GDP in President Reagan's first year in office, then the national debt today would be "only" around $8 trillion.

 

[JonC]

Regurgitating liberal hyperbole again?

Just an attempt to shut down debate on a rational, sustainable, responsible budget.

BTW, it goes both ways.

Anyone who opposes this effort wants to push $89,000 a year debt on our children and grandchildren. They are destroying our children’s future. They are attempting to bankrupt this country so the communists can take over.

What are said is much closer to truth than the repubs “holding the American people hostage” nonsense.

peace to you

I was quoting Mitch McConnell.

I think it is long past time for Mitch to go, but characterizing him as "liberal" is simply using labels as political weapons.

You (and @Wingman68 by his agreement) would have done better to say Mitch McConnell is not conservative enough in your opinion....or is too moderate a Republican.


This has been an issue on this board. People call conservatives "liberal" as a smear when in fact their policies fall within conservative rather than liberal ideology.

I am not a Mitch fan (even though I quoted him). But I am honest enough not to call him "liberal". Your post was just an attempt to shut down debate on a rational, sustainable, responsible budget.