Why Would a Pastor Condone Freemasonry

[Bro Tony]

Bro Tony, I well understand where you are comming from here wanting Jacob to be brought into the light. Yet are you considering fully the implications of what you are saying? All Christians be they in a fraternity or not have the light of Jesus. That is given to all that accept Jesus Christ as their Lord and Saviour. Jesus is the True Light, and those that accept Him as Lord and Saviour walk in that light. Matthew 5:14 "You are the Light of the world, a city that shines on a hill".

Ben thank you for your response. I am in agreement with you, fully that Jesus is the Light of the world, and He has made us lights. But the same Scripture that calls us light also commands us to let our light shine, not to hide it. I have not called Jacob's salvation into question, if you have read the posts you know this is true. I have challenged his practice. I believe this is biblical. You can and I encourage you to challenge anything that I am involved in that may bring reproach on the name of Christ. That is your responsibility as my brother. Certainly, you would not say that a person living in immorality should not be confronted by the church. We are to expose the works of darkness. I do believe it is possible for you, me or any other Christian to walk in darkness instead of the light of Christ. This is a choice we all make daily. If I choose darkness, I need, although I may not want it at the time, for a brother like you to stand in my way and call me back to Christ. That is my intent, that is what I will continue to do for the Church that I love. The Church that you and I are apart of.

Bro Tony

 

[Bro Tony]

As a Pastor yourself, no doubt you studied the work of Martin Luther in Seminary. He broke through the tyranny of the Catholic Church that had been built into a superstitious works based faith, rather than the Freedom in Christ that Luther preached. Consider his work in His tract "The Freedom of a Christian man".

Ben,

On this very board my record in standing against any works based salvation, as put forth by the RCC is well documented. I do not believe in a works based salvation, period. I stand strongly against the RCC and their false teachings concerning salvation. Yes, I believe there is freedom in Christ, but that freedom is not license to do any thing I choose to do. It is the freedom to do what God has called me to do. We as Christians do not have the liberty to live outside of the clear instructions of Scripture. If we are in error we need our brothers to bring us back in line with the Word. Paul had no trouble doing this with Peter when he was in error.

I believe I am forgiven of my sin, as you have stated, past-present-future. By the grace of God all my sin is forgiven. Does that mean since I have received the grace of God and my sin is forgiven that I am at liberty to sin all the more? May it not be so!

Bro Tony

 

[Jacob Webber]

This is a statement from my Grand Lodge:

39. Do Masons believe that by doing good works they can gain admittance to heaven?


No. The admittance into heaven falls in the realm of the spiritual, not the fraternal.

 

[O.F.F.]

Corey,

Can you please provide the source, including the page number, of your Grand Lodge statement. More importantly, how do you reconcile your Grand Lodge statement with what is said when presented the White Leather Apron:

“The Lamb has in all ages been deemed an emblem of innocence. By the lambskin, therefore, the Mason is reminded of that purity of life and rectitude of conduct so essential to gaining admission to the Celestial Lodge above, where the Supreme Architect of the Universe presides.” (emphasis added)

There is no mention of faith alone in Jesus Christ alone, but rather the bold statement of works "so essential to gain admission into heaven." Perhaps you can try to explain without all the double-talk of Grand Lodges and other Masons.

However, don't try to super impose that they are referring to Jesus as the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world, when you know very well that as you put it "the Blue Lodge is NOT a Christian Frat." Therefore, this statement of the Apron applies to ALL Masons, Christian and nonChristian alike.

Mike

 

[Jacob Webber]

Here is the webpage you requeted Mike.
http://www.korrnet.org/fam/gl-qfa.htm

“The Lamb has in all ages been deemed an emblem of innocence. By the lambskin, therefore, the Mason is REMINDED of that purity of life and rectitude of conduct so essential to gaining admission to the Celestial Lodge above , where the Supreme Architect of the Universe presides.” (emphasis added)

See mike you see the word conduct and forget the word reminded. God told us we must be with out Sin to Enter Heaven. It is a REMINDER of that rule God laid down that we must be with out sin to enter heaven. Notice thou it does not say you will get there, Because again Freemasonry does not know the relationship between you and God. As the Grand Lodge states Slavtion is not of the Fraternail

 

[Jacob Webber]

(However, don't try to super impose that they are referring to Jesus as the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world, when you know very well that as you put it "the Blue Lodge is NOT a Christian Frat." Therefore, this statement of the Apron applies to ALL Masons, Christian and nonChristian alike.)

Yes Mike very good. Now as I stated before the God in the Ritual is YHWH. You say this is part of the Ritaul. And the Lamb Skin has been an emblem of innocense in Judaism and Christianty YHWH is present in both. The statement does apply to all not just Masons. God said we must be without sin to enter Heaven. And again you are right the Blue Lodge is not a Christain Frat but it does present Christ's teachings. Love your neighbor, Charity. And again its Ritual comes from the Christian Frat Knights Templar York Rite. So if you attend the Blue Lodge you will hear that YHWH laid down a rule you must be without sin to enter Heaven. When you attend the Knights Templar you will hear that Jesus Christ is the one who cleanses yours sins and makes you pure and sinless before God. So you really do not get the full story of the Blue Lodge until you attend the York Rite Degrees. It is consider by alot of Masons that you are still just a Fellow Craft and have not yet become a Master MAson until you go thru the York Rite.

 

[O.F.F.]

Corey,

I now make myself available to other members of this forum if they want to know the truth about Freemasonry from former lodge members. You cannot, or will not, provide any shred of Grand Lodge (GL) evidence that will convince anyone that Freemasonry is compatible with biblical Christianity.

Even your GL misleads people, not only into thinking that Freemasonry is compatible with Christianity, but it also tries to subtly suggest that it accepts blacks. I would not have brought it up, had you not led me to it on your own Grand Lodge’s website.

But since you did, you and I know that the lodges in your jurisdiction don't accept blacks, because you belong to a racist Masonic jurisdiction. You even tried to imply otherwise, by mentioning in an earlier post that your lodge has a Native American Indian on its rolls. Do you have any black members on your rolls, Corey?

The Vice President of O.F.F. is a former Mason from your own jurisdiction, and you know he can prove that Freemasonry is racist in Tennessee. From your own Grand Lodge website, on the link you provided, the next question reads:

40. Are black people permitted to be Masons?

Yes. There are many Prince Hall Lodges in the United States which are made up of only black people. A few Lodges are integrated.

The fact is, many Prince Hall Lodges are integrated in the North & South, as well as many non-Prince Hall lodges in the North. My former lodge of Prince Hall affiliation is in North Carolina, and it is integrated. The White lodges there are NOT. And, you will not find a black member in your jurisdiction, or in any other state in the South apart from Prince Hall, will you Corey?

The question should read, “Are black men permitted to be Masons in this Tennessee jurisdiction? Answer: No. Because there’s a separate Masonic drinking fountain called Prince Hall Lodges from which they can quench their Masonic thirst. If one would try to petition our lodges he is subject to be black balled.”

So, please don’t sicken me any longer with your hypocritical attempt to uphold Christian values while maintaining membership in an unchristian organization that teaches heresy and practices racism. I'm finished with your delusions and mischaracterizations of the world's largest cult.

Meanwhile, however, I will continue to pray for your deliverance.

Mike

P.S. For those of you who would like to learn more about the racial dichotomy of Freemasonry, please click on the following link:

The Separate but Equal Brotherhood

[ May 27, 2004, 02:10 PM: Message edited by: O.F.F. ]

 

[Jacob Webber]

(But since you did, you and I know that the lodges in your jurisdiction don't accept blacks, because you belong to a racist Masonic jurisdiction. You even tried to imply otherwise, by mentioning in an earlier post that your lodge has a Native American Indian on its rolls. Do you have any black members on your rolls, Corey?)

To aswer your question Mike no the are not blacks as you like to but it at my Lodge. My lodge in in a small community mostly as you would put is Native Americain and White (Mostly from Ireland and Germany) mixed. But I ask you mike were in the requirements does it ask what skin shade you are to become a Mason. I will foully at mite there is racism in the Logde as I have admitted before just as there is everywhere else. But Mike I would gladly welcome any man of what you seem to consider a different race to my Lodge. I on the other hand keep a different view I do not believe in different races of man because biblily there are none. Adam and Eve's offspring were all different kinds of skins shades so as you see we are all the same color just some have more than others.

Africain-Americain Members were at the Grand Lodge last year and this year if you were at the Grand Lodge meeting of all Tn you would have seen them but I guess you were not there. Hence making you false claim. The PH Lodges are not regonize by the Grand Lodge we are still think about it but from what I hear and I would like to hear from a PH Mason from TN that the PH in TN are to political.


Here is a list of states that regonize PH.

US States:

Alaska
Arizona
California
Colorado
Connecticut
District of Columbia
Hawaii
Idaho
Illinois
Indiana
Iowa
Kansas
Maine
Maryland
Massachusetts
Michigan
Minnesota
Missouri
Montana
Nebraska
Nevada
New Hampshire
New Jersey
New Mexico
New York
North Dakota
Ohio
Oregon
Pennsylvania
Rhode Island
South Dakota
Utah
Vermont
Virginia
Washington
Wisconsin
Wyoming


If below the Mason-Dixon Line is consider south than Virginia,Maryland. Missouri provided soilders for the confederate army.

But again my should we have to accept PH Lodges when an Africain Americain can join the regular Lodge. Again show me were it says in the requirements of being a Mason that you have to be a certain Skin Shade.

 

[Jacob Webber]

Mike
I have been trying to find a intergrade Lodge in TN, But I keep running into on Big problem Freemasonry does not asked what color your skin is to join or your heritage so it will take a while to find out.

 

[SpiritualMadMan]

Masonic Oaths:

My reading finds them exclusivistic, as one would expect of any cult...

I find that an initiate swears fealty to the lodge above all else...

That lodge members whether Christian, Non-Christian or Reprobate are given specific pre-eminence over Blood-Bought Children of God...

Reading the oaths made a chill go up my spine... I am now more concerned about having Masons in my neighborhood than I have ever been before,knowing that if there were ever a question between me and a Mason...

The law couldn't help me... Now, that's scary stuff...

I find it incomprehensible that a person could take such an oath and still call me 'Brother' in the Lord. Or, expect me to call him such.

 

[Jacob Webber]

(I find that an initiate swears fealty to the lodge above all else...)

Were have you heard this. And most Frats are Exclusive. This Board only allows Baptist in certain sections it is not evil to do so.

(That lodge members whether Christian, Non-Christian or Reprobate are given specific pre-eminence over Blood-Bought Children of God...)

Not really sure why this would matter there are goveners and majors and senators who do not believe in Jesus and we are under them. Just because someone is a Christian does not mean they have good leadership skills. They may draw on God but if leadership is not their gift than they do not belong in a leadership postion.


(The law couldn't help me... Now, that's scary stuff...)

Not really sure what you mean by this are you implying Masons are above the Law.

(I find it incomprehensible that a person could take such an oath and still call me 'Brother' in the Lord. Or, expect me to call him such.)

I will call any Christian a Brother. IF they do not call me the same than fine. But my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ knows me as one of His.

 

[Bro Tony]

To All,

As anybody with just the smallest amount of discernment can see. Jacob continues to defend the undefensible. He continues to skirt the issue rather than deal openly and honestly. He can't for he has sworn a bloody oath at the alter of teh occult and would rather keep that ungodly oath than follow the Christ who he claims saved his soul. He is to be rebuked, pitied,and prayed for that he might be delivered and that he would not lead any other undiscerning souls into freemasonry.

Bro Tony

 

[Jacob Webber]

(He continues to skirt the issue rather than deal openly and honestly)

Bro Tony
I have skirted no issue I have answered you when you requested. I have dealt with the issues openly and honestly without reveiling ritual. Please show me were I have skirted the issues.

 

[Bro Tony]

Jacob,

The point is that in order to really look at this issue you must be open and honest with the ones you consider your brothers in Christ. You cannot because you have sworn a bloody oath that keeps you from doing so. If we cannot look at everything and evaluate it by Scripture, we are just wasting our time. It is in the ritual that we have the problem, since you choose not to speak openly, you cannot deal with the issue. I believe this can go no where until you do. It has been layed out to you by O.F.F. and you did not deal with it.

When you can talk about and examine everything in accord with the Word of God, the Christians are supposed to, I will be glad to join you in it. Until then I have chosen not to keep going in circles, but again plead with you to come out and come home to your real brothers.

To everyone I hope you all have a great Memorial Day weekend. As for me, I am leaving the desert for a couple of days in San Diego. I get to spend time with my wonderful wife and my two grown kids. Thank you Jesus!

I be back on the board on Monday, God Bless All!

Bro Tony

 

[D28guy]

Would these be the 1st 3 oaths?...


THE OATH OF THE ENTERED APPRENTICE

'I..........., of my own free will and accord, in the presence of Almighty God and this Worshipful Lodge, erected to Him and dedicated to the Holy Saint John, do hereby and hereon most solemnly and sincerely promise and swear that I will always hail, ever conceal, and never reveal any of the secret arts, parts or points of the hidden mysteries of Ancient Freemasonry, which have been heretofore, may at this time, or shall at any future period be communicated to me as such, to any person whomsoever, except it be a true
and lawful brother Mason, or within a regularly constituted Lodge of Masons, and neither unto him or them, until by strict trial, due examination, or legal information I shall have found him or them lawfully entitled to the same as I am myself.

I furthermore promise and swear that I will not write, print, paint, stamp, stain, cut, carve, make, nor engrave them, nor cause the same to be done upon anything movable of immovable, capable of receiving the least impression of a word, syllable, letter or character, whereby the same becomes legible or intelligible to any person under the canopy of heaven, and the secrets of Freemasonry be thereby unlawfully obtained through my unworthiness.

To all of this I most solemnly and sincerely promise and swear, with a firm and steadfast resolution to keep and perform the same without any equivocation, mental reservation, or secret evasion of mind whatever, binding myself under no less a penalty than that of having my throat cut across, my tongue torn out by its roots and buried in the rough sands of the sea at low water mark, where the tide ebbs and flows twice in twenty four hours, should I ever knowingly or willingly violate this my solemn oath or obligation as an Entered Apprentice Mason. So help me God and keep me steadfast in the due performance of the same.'

Mike

 

[D28guy]

SpiritualMadMan,

"Reading the oaths made a chill go up my spine... I am now more concerned about having Masons in my neighborhood than I have ever been before,knowing that if there were ever a question between me and a Mason...

The law couldn't help me... Now, that's scary stuff..."

Could you elaborate on this please?

If you would rather PM me that would be fine as well.

God bless,

Mike

 

[Ben W]

I have found the whole issue of taking oaths an interesting one. Obviously we are instructed by Christ not to take oaths, but to simply say yes or no. (Matthew 5:33-37)

As I see it, these Oaths are the religious type of vows taken in the Old Testament.

I have been thinking a little about this and how I reconcile it to the signing of documents. For example I was required by my employer to sign a secrecy agreement regarding sensitive information. This seems to be pretty much common place in most workplaces and serious penaltys are applied to those that do share industrial secrets.

I to that signed my name on the basis that in doing so I was saying Yes I will keep that. Scripturally that does not worry me as I feel that is in the keeping with saying Yes of No to things.

In study, I have seen that it was common for people to make remarks like "I swear by the hammer of thor" or by different gods, henc maybe why we are told not to swear by heaven or the throne, because in doing so we have become like the pagans that do that stuff all the time.

Yet we are required to sign documents that state that we will keep something a secret, I think that is o.k. What do you guys feel on the idea?

 

[frewtloop]

I have found the whole issue of taking oaths an interesting one. Obviously we are instructed by Christ not to take oaths, but to simply say yes or no.

Even so, Paul took a vow at Cenchrea. That suggests that the practice under discussion here must not be the one Jesus spoke of. In fact, if you will take another look at what Jesus was saying, I think you'll find that the thing Jesus spoke against was more closely related to a practice that many consider fairly harmless, like saying "---- yeah!" or "---- right!" Probably most of us immediately recognize these two phrases, which is sad, because it's a strong indication that with the erroneous way we put this teaching into practice, we have swallowed the camel while continuing to try to strain out the gnats.

TW

 

[Jude]

web site "Famous Masons"
http://www.masonicinfo.com/famous1.htm
Among them at Peter Marshall, Norman Vincent Peale and Roy Rogers!!!

Note also the article attached regarding Joseph Smith. Alarming!

 

[O.F.F.]

D28guy, he can certainly speak for himself, but with regard to SpiritualMadMan's quote:

"Reading the oaths made a chill go up my spine... I am now more concerned about having Masons in my neighborhood than I have ever been before,knowing that if there were ever a question between me and a Mason...

The law couldn't help me... Now, that's scary stuff..."

Speaking as a former Mason, and in context with his entire post, his concern seems to me that to the extent that there are police officers, lawyers and judges who are Masons, if he had a legal issue with a Mason in his neighborhood, the law couldn't, or most likely wouldn't help him.

One of the driving and most motivatiing forces behind one joining and remaining in the Lodge is the enormous political connections, favoritism, and the like. Some Masons, if they are honest, can tell you stories of how they or others have gotten out of traffic tickets, found jobs, received raises & promotions, gotten discounts in the marketplace, etc. all because of their leveraging the fact that they are Masons. I know this for a fact, because it has worked for me in the past.

On the flipside, there are former Masons who have suffered as a result of leaving the Lodge for Jesus Christ. I've heard testimonies from pastors being fired from their local church for resigning from Freemasonry, to others who have also lost their jobs and friends, or those who have been alienated by their families and community. Most accept it and count it all as a privilege to suffer such persecution for Christ sake. And, there are others who have been fortunate to not have suffered as much as others.

Finally, regarding the oath you quoted on the previous page, it is only one of the first three taken by Masons. What you have quoted is the Entered Apprentice or first degree oath. To read the other two, go back to the top of page 4 of this thread where I have provided links to PDF files for all three Blue Lodge Masonic Oaths. I also posted a link there to ALL the secrets of Freemasonry.

Mike

[ May 28, 2004, 08:27 AM: Message edited by: O.F.F. ]