delizzle
Active Member
I am working on getting a blanket endorsement from the Chaplaincy Full Gospel Churches.
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Why Would SDA Members Hang Out on BB?
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delizzle
Active Member
Bethel University, not Liberty University. But a Baptist Seminary nonetheless. I do hold to theological convictions. I just don't settle for any single brand of Christian religion.
I didn't ask if cult members were allowed to post here, Bob. I asked, why would they want to spend their time here. That's a different question. I don't expect an honest answer to it, though, so don't worry.
No, I have no desire to become a Baptist. Cults? That word is thrown about very easily by people who don't agree with another persons faith tradition. As an adherent of the Latin or Western Rite of Christianity, that charge certainly comes my way regularly. The SDA? Yep, I agree, they a bit off kilter what with Ellen White and her writings. But looking at serious cults, I'd say Jim Jones was a leader of a cult, as was David Koresh - but then again, weren't they more Baptist in their belief's than let's say SDA?
Of course I agree with the biblical warnings, but who is coming up with the proper interpretation of them and who they really apply to. Were Jim and Tammy Baker the leaders of a cult? Here you have two strong personalities who were constantly asking for money from their followers. How about Jimmy Swaggert? He was another strong personality that people followed.
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It's interesting that you do draw a line in the sand. You name two cult leaders. Why them?
My apologies on the citing the wrong university.
That is interesting. Your seminary claims to hold to theological convictions. Are you in agreement with those convictions?
Because everything was invested in the leaders, not the message. Of course they were two of the most well known ones and there are others I am sure. For example, when I lived in Vermont many years ago there was a supposedly Christian group that most people in the area considered a cult (their name escapes me at this point). This group consisted of a strong leader, plus to join them, all monies or property etc. had to be turned over to the group. Were they a cult Possibly, I am not sure and had no real desire to get to know them in any way. Thankfully, they were not violent and eventually after some 10 years or so they left the area.
One of our battalions went to Sinai, had a chance for R&R in Israel.
A bunch of people wanted the whole baptism in the Jordan, and the chaplain (SBC ) refused almost all of them.
Basically said if you weren't coming to any services, he wasn't baptizing you.
A bunch of people wanted the whole baptism in the Jordan, and the chaplain (SBC ) refused almost all of them.
Basically said if you weren't coming to any services, he wasn't baptizing you.
Yes and that is the reason I have always said there are babes in Christ in the cults - kidnap victims.
God allows it - Why?
HankD
delizzle
Active Member
No problem. They are both outstanding seminary schools.
Yes, I am in complete agreement with the statement of faith as referenced on the Bethel University website.
I haven't heard a sermon about false teachers in a decade or more, and I think that's a problem. The NT is full of warnings and instructions regarding this matter, but we have fallen asleep while on watch.
We have allowed, even invited, them right into the front door, and we are too nice to call a spade a spade, and we are too ignorant to see the wolf under his sheep's clothing, as in the case of the SDA.
As to why, that's in God's hands. The elect are safe, Hank.
"For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect." (Matt 24:24)
"I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand." (John 10:28)
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BobRyan
Well-Known Member
You may be interested to know that Adventists became "Seventh-day Adventists" in large part due to efforts of some Seventh-day Baptists having discussions with Sunday keeping Adventists.
You may also be interested to know that the "Baptist Confession of Faith" section 19, and the "Westminster Confession of Faith" section 19 -- as well as D.L. Moody's sermon on the Ten Commandments - are very much in line with Seventh-day Adventist teaching on the New Covenant, the Law and the Gospel
We would make a few minor changes for example D.L. Moody's argument about "one day in 7" - but the significant point is that all the fuss and furry you find on this board against our positions on the Law and the Gospel and the New Covenant -- are essentially complaints about points where we AGREE with the "Baptist Confession of Faith" section 19, and the "Westminster Confession of Faith" section 19 -- as well as D.L. Moody's sermon on the Ten Commandments -
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
That could indeed be your problem and why you limit your posts to emotional arguments, creative writing - and one-off anecdotal stories.
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
in this case it is because you are falsely accusing others.
I think they must do it to to cause you misery. I think it is working.
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
Not sure if you are admitting that your constant resort to factless emotionalism has a limit to it or not.
It is unclear to me that more than a tiny handful of your fellow Baptists could bring themselves to switch from "sola scriptura" and into 'Sola appeal to emotionalism" that you have been offering.
Brian, I have watched over souls for many decades as a pastor, youth director, deacon, Sunday School teacher, etc.
The devil is real, he is no match for puny mortal man and his minions are always there waiting to devour someone.
You sound like you have not been in ministries.
Anyway I have had my snack (English muffin) and I'm of to LaLa land
Goodnite Bro.
HankD
One Baptism
Active Member
I have actually written to Dale Ratzlaff's 'ministry', in rebuttal to the error and misuses of various quotes, etc, among other things, and do you know what they wrote back, even on the Sabbath specifically, and Michael, etc? Nothing. They neither responded to it in their 'magazine', which I have read, and personally laughed at and wept over [its kinda mixed really]. It's a sad joke. They only post and reply to what they would classify as hate/anger mail, and then show their 'audience/readers' how terrible these 'people' are, or they accept the weakest arguments from those who do not know any better, but look to make a showing, and lampoon them. When a real Seventh-day Adventist, who knows their Bible [KJB] and the SoP/ToJ [Spirit of Prophecy/Testimony of Jesus] confront them and reply to their diatribe, they clam up, and say nothing, or make a big bluster and switch the issue, or they go to complain on their own personal closed forums [which you cannot really get into to respond to, unless you prove to them you are ex-SDA, by background check through conference, etc.] Pitiful.
Other persons and readers of their 'magazine ministry' end up at CARM, and self-congratulate themselves of how they escaped, of how they found/'studied' their way out [they don't "Study" their way out, they "Don't Study" their way out ...], and instead of having the Gospel in mind, they spend all their time whining about Seventh-day Adventists [and their religion becomes ex-SDAism, while some become Catholics, JW's, Mormons, Baptists, Muslim [yes even them]], atheists, but their common beef is to simply build themsleves up by tearing down the Seventh-day Adventists and attacking a deceased sister [sister White's person and her life], and that's it, go read them for yourself], or their personal experiences, none of them are wholly consistent together on what they believe after they left and went out from us [some still believe the state of the dead, some still believe Michael as Jesus, some this, and some that, but their agreement is ex-SDAism], but became a personal hategroup, joining one of Matt's own making, who classifies himself as a cult-expert, along with their 'mods'. I also debated him [and their 'mods, on numerous occasions], back when I did that. He personally booted me and banned me from the chat, and blocked my IP, and several 'mods' personally erased whole threads, tampered with specific posts and left no indication that it had been done. No good it did him [he could have banned an entire continent's IP range, wouldn't have mattered], I know ways around the IP block, and other types [sometimes takes awhile, but if it's worth it].
Back to Dale and his group, when I first became a Seventh-day Adventist, about a year or so in, my brother and I, found on his car windshield, in the church parkinglot, a 'magazine' from Dale's 'ministry'. Seems they like to sneak in when no one is looking and target new believers. Which means they were watching my brother and I from inside of the church, knowing what specific car it was we rode in. I looked around. It was on no other verhicles that were left that day after the majority had gone. So what did I do with the 'magazine'? Throw it away, tear it up right there? Ha! No. Are you kidding me? I took that as a personal challenge. I read it on the way home, and had a good laugh, and a sustained sorrow for the error it contained, and yet they believed it to be truth. I kept that mag for a long time, and finally abandoned it to the trash bin, after I wrote a letter by email to them. Did they respond? No. Never. I emailed them on several occasions. I get nothing.
I have watched Dales 'videos', and they are frankly misdirection, and sleight of word definition, and plain error, mixed with pieces of truth here and there. In fact, I sat and went through his anti-sabbath [as I do others, like John MacArthur [I emailed his ministry also, from the very ministry I used to work for until recently, and guess what they wrote back about his two anti-sabbath videos and the material therein? Nothing. I challenged John and his whole team. Crickets.] video with a fellow believer [becasue he asked me to, to respond to it, and to deal with the arguments in it], and I went over it by phone with him, with Bible [KJB] in hand, line upon line. The other believer, then saw the video for what it was worth. Wasted time. Vanity. Willing blindness.
Post all the videos you want, I have more than likely already seen them, and show them for what they are. Pick any part you want, give the time index, and as time allows, I will show by the grace of God, that what seemed substance in their 'presentation' will vanish away like smoke in a hazy dream. I have nothing to fear, for I have prayed to God from the beginning for Truth, and God has answered above and beyond what I had ever thought to receive and continues to do so, overflowing. It's one of my sermons I may be preaching soon. Fearless, based upon 1 John 4:18 KJB, read it carefully, and it applies to Heaven [God who is perfect Love, cast out the Spirit of Fear, Satan, and it applies to the Kingdom within, even the heart], it's going to be awesome because God inspires it.
Most ex-SDA get their core material from the original ex-SDA, D.M. Canright [that's Dudley Marvin]. The problem is, ol' Canright, reneged and came back, and wrote his own rebuttal [and 'its solid], but he left again, and died a tragic death, and you can read about it here - http://www.ellenwhitedefend.com/Defense/Canright.pdf
P.S. I 'hang out' [actively come] here, because I was commanded to by Jesus, you can read about that command in Matthew 28 KJB, etc. I am fishing, just like my Father, Ezekiel 32.
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I have other sources than sermons, Bob. The Bible, first and foremost. It tells me all I need to know about how the Enemy works.
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