Featured Why You Should Strive to Speak in Tongues

Your presumptuous mischaracterization of my position makes me laugh! My parents were members of a mega-Baptist church for many years before they became disillusioned and I attended their church when I visited their city. A Baptist who'd served as an elder for many years got sick and his marriage broke up. So he stopped attending that church. My Dad only knew him from a couple of conversations but after a few years he was concerned by his absence; so he called him up to express his concern. The elder thanked him, adding, "I served that church as elder for many years, yet you're the only one who cared enough to seek me out and find out what's wrong!" I see Baptists as a religion without the experience of transforming divine power.

Baptists need to mischaracterize opposing views they find threatening so they can confront a manageable false caricature. Even my last carefully worded post has been edited for easier critique. But consider these 2 points:
(1) I never said a Christian needs to speak in tongues to be Spirit-baptized and I don't believe that. I haven't spoken in tongues in decades because I fear doing it in the flesh and the memory of my experience at age 16 is so electrifying and spiritually nourishing that I feed off its memory daily and, as I have said, I doubt I'd still even be a Christian, if I had never spoken in tongues. But when I did, it was by far the highlight of my life and I'm certain you would say the same if you experienced what I did at age 16.
(2) So you deny many Baptists attend spiritually impoverished churches? So share with me some of the Gospel-caliber miracles your church has witnessed. Despite the excesses of Pentecostalism, it allowed me to experience miracles throughout my life, miracles that deepened my faith in the power and ongoing relevance of the risen Christ. I will share some of them in my other thread.

 

My parents attended a mega-Baptist church for many years prior to their disillusionment and I attended that church when I visited them. As a pastor, I observed the refusal of our large local Baptist church to join other evangelical churches once a year for worship in our park because they refused to share Holy Communion with a mainline church present. So my perception of Baptists as a denomination without "the power and demonstration of the Spirit" is based on direct observation. Please share some of the Gospel-caliber miracles your Baptist church has witnessed.

 

With Youth with a Mission, I (age 29)witnessed across eastern Canada door-to-door and in the streets and many prayed the prayer of commitment to Christ through our witness, 2 by 2. We focused on Campus Crusade's 4 spiritual laws and I stressed the wondrous opportunity of responding to Jesus' challenge: "Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone will hear my voice and open the door, I will come in and feast with him and he with me (Rev. 3:2). I wonder how much street and door-to-door evangelism our presumptuous Austin has done. Hmmm?

 

AustinC: "are you looking for a who's more spiritual contest? Realize that was what Paul was forced to do with the infant and carnal church at Corinth. Do you really want to do this?"

Let's review the absurd Baptist bigotry on full display here. I make it clear that one of my 2 threads deals with speaking in tongues and the complementary thread with my paranormal charismatic experiences. The 2 threads are thus bring each other to life. Then the same people who whine when posters going offtopic want me to explain how I'd explain the way of salvation. So I do that in post #3 in my other thread, but Salty can't be bothered to check my reply and instead complains that I didn't answer the question! All of this exudes a holier than thou odor of sanctity that assumes Baptists are more evangelistic than I am. So I go offtopic and explain how I witness and I'm accused of creating a "more spiritual contest" simply for asking Austin if he's willing to pay the price I did to witness. All this because Baptists have no answer to my biblical defense of speaking in tongues and thus need to derail . Well, stay tuned because my refutations are just getting started. This is a non-Baptist debate section, right?

AustinC: "Second, do you have any clue that Revelation 3:20 is not a salvation verse, but instead is a verse to a lukewarm Christian church? You are abusing God's word by misapplying it."

This haughty comment is ironic because I wrote a 452 page Havard doctoral thesis on Christian prophetism, focusing much on Revelation. Of course, the primary reference is to the church of Laodicea, but Jesus seeks out sinners, does he not and Rev. 3:20 can be a highly effective evangelistic tool.

You remind of my so-called prayer partner's reaction in Toronto when we approached a couple on their doorsteps to witness to them. As we drew near, we saw that they were angrily quarreling and swearing at each other. So we turned to leave, but the husband (cigarette dangling from his hand) shouted, "What do you want?" So I quietly shared the Gospel with him, the Spirit convicted, and when I asked them if they'd like me to pray with them to help them open their heart's door and invite Jesus in as their Lord and Savior, the quietly and joyfully said Yes. Just then my prayer partner interrupted and asked the man, "Did you ever ask the Lord to give you the victory over that cigarette?" This led to an argument about smoking and a chance to get this couple saved was sadly lost. I see my prayer partner's attitude as embodied in the Baptist nickpicking derailed on display here.

Austin: "Third, if you used the 4 spiritual laws at all, you would realize that they use the train metaphor where feelings cannot fuel the train, but facts fuel the feelings."

My other post deals with charismatic feelings and experiences; my witnessing put no stress on feelings. Sadly, you can't distinguishe= between someone who just wants to stay on topic and witnessing strategy. So sad!

 

Rengstorf's magisterial article on "semeion" ("sign") studies the use of this concept in secular Greek, the Greek Old Testament, other ancient Jewish literature,, the New Testament, and the apostolic fathers. What he says about the "sign for unbelievers" in 1 Cor. 14:22 reflects the [non-Pentecostal] scholarly consensus and destroys the Baptist citation of this "sign" as a reason to reject the modern legitimacy of speaking in tongues:

"In 1 Cor. 14:22 Paul calls the gift of tongues a sign for unbelievers and in proof appeals to Isaiah 28:11f.. His point is that speaking in [uninterpreted] tongues not only does not open up access to the mysteries of God for unbelievers but actually bars this. It is a sign to unbelievers because it shows that they are unbelievers and separated from God. It presents itself...as a ground by which to know their own unbelief (Theological Dictionary of the New Testament, vol. VII, p.259).."
Because Paul wants unbelievers to get saved, he doesn't want tongues to function as a sign in this sense in church meetings where unbelievers are present. So it is part of his argument that tongues in such a public setting must be interpreted. By the same token it in no way undermines Paul's wish that we all speak in tongues (14:5) and his encouragement for them to do so by adding that he "thanks God that he speaks in tongues [privately] more than all of them (14:18)."

By the way, Salty's point that public prophesying in preferable is irrelevant unless you want to claim that some of the Holy Spirit's gifts are worthless junk.