Will a Christian ever go to hell?

[DeclareHim]

I believe in salvation through Jesus Christ alone. I don't believe works can "unsave" you or make you spend time in "punishment" till you can even up the "score". See Ephesian 2:8-9. I believe in the eternal security of the believer.
I am trusting in Jesus alone for salvation. Praise His name.

1cross+3nails=4given

 

[Ed Edwards]

Amen, Brother DeclareHim -- Preach it!

 

[Ransom]

Ransom, I will let you and Craig debate the eternal security issue

I was not debating the eternal security issue with Craig. I was answering your denial of solus Christus.

Perhaps it is wise of you to change the subject, as it appears that your arguments hold no water.

 

[Lacy Evans]

Originally posted by robycop3:
You've blown it...How can a PLACE be dumped anywhere, especially into ITSELF?

The lake of fire is not hell,

Then, besides gehenna, what the HECK is it?

Hell is Hell.

The Lake of Fire is the Lake of Fire.

Hell gets dumped into the Lake of Fire.

"Heck" is what we say in West Texas when we miss the nail with the hammer.


I hope that helps clear it up Roby.

Lacy

 

[Craigbythesea]

Ok craig, I am I supposed to infer from this that a: you never lie, or b: you believe a Christian can never lose his salvation?

You are not supposed to infer anything, but take the post at face value. But of course you don’t want to do that!!!

You have already told me that you believe a Christian CAN lose his salvation.

Yes, and rather than simply accept that fact, you have attributed to me a host of false doctrines that I do NOT believe.

You seem to think that somehow your idea that you must continue to work in order to keep your free gift is not works salvation and that it somehow can be reconciled with such verses as
Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

or

Romans 5:15
But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

James, you know what I believe, and you KNOW that I do NOT believe what you are representing as my beliefs. I fully realize that it is much easier for you refute crazy beliefs that I do not hold to rather than scriptural beliefs that I do hold to, but, you are shifting the discussion away from the truth and away from anything even close to reality.

My beliefs are all scriptural, and they are the beliefs of the Ante-Nicene Church Fathers whom it pleased our Lord to use to formalize the doctrine of the Trinity and to establish to New Testament Canon. Joey Faust’s doctrine of Kingdom Exclusion is a lie from hell, plain and simple! Rather than study the words that formulate the terminology of the New Testament writers, Joey Faust has embarked on a mission from hell, twisting and distorting the Gospel and the rest of the New Testament to make it fit his grossly ignorant view of the Bible.

Joey Faust is a false prophet, and his understanding of New Testament terminology is all skewed to fit his false teachings. You are arguing for the same false meanings of New Testament terminology that Joey Faust teaches and has published in his book, already reference by me earlier in this thread. Why do your posts seem so wacky? They seem so wacky because the thoughts behind them come from the wacky Joey Faust.

There are some very precious young people reading these posts, and we all have a responsibility before God to be very careful what we post.

Mat 18:6 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.

[ September 06, 2004, 10:22 AM: Message edited by: Pastor_Bob ]

 

[James_Newman]

Ok brother, for the record then, state very clearly what it is you believe will happen to a Christian who is not walking after the spirit. So I will not be accused of misrepresenting your beliefs. I believe we are once saved, always saved through believing in the blood atonement of our Lord Jesus Christ. I believe we are saved by grace, not works. I believe salvation is a free gift. I believe that once we have been saved that no man may take us out of His hand, and that includes ourselves. I believe that a son of God who is walking in darkness will be punished, but will not be lost for eternity.

If it makes you uncomfortable to call your view of salvation Works Salvation, then call it something else, but it has the same stench.

 

[James_Newman]

Also, it is very unfair of you to ignore the fact that in his book, Mr Faust has been more than generous in his citations and shows that this belief has been held by many Christians throughout the centuries. I could list them here if you like?

 

[Pastor_Bob]

This discussion would be more appropriate in the theology forum. The main emphasis of this thread is doctrine.

I've changed the title to "Will a Christian ever go to hell?"

[ September 06, 2004, 10:28 AM: Message edited by: Pastor_Bob ]

 

[James_Newman]

I think it should be moved as well, because I think most people ignore the bible versions threads. But you can't divorce the version issues from the doctrine issues. We can't expect people to honestly believe that our beliefs are not influenced by what bible versions we read.

 

[av1611jim]

It is very clear to me that Mr. Newman has represented his position honestly and effectively.
We are saved for all eternity by the atoning WORK of Jesus on our behalf. This makes us a child of God for ALL eternity.
As children of God we are now RESPONSIBLE to live obedient and holy lives. If we, as God's children, rebel and disobey; then He AS A LOVING Father MUST punish us. To ignore this or deny it would then make HIM a liar for He said, if we are NOT chastized then we are BASTARDS and no more sons of God.
This is not Roman doctrine. It is biblical. God demands obedience.
God demands holy living.
Always has, always will.
This in no way whatsoever does violence to the doctrine of salvation by faith alone in Christ alone.
The one is salvation.
The other is obedience AFTER salvation.
Jim

 

[Bro.Bill]

Obedience after salvation but before death.God chastens those He loves for correction sake for the good of the believer.
To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord is what Paul wrote concerning the believer.What puropse would it serve to discipline a believer after he/she is dead?

 

[Craigbythesea]

Also, it is very unfair of you to ignore the fact that in his book, Mr Faust has been more than generous in his citations and shows that this belief has been held by many Christians throughout the centuries. I could list them here if you like?

Check out the citations for yourself and you will find out what kind of a man Joey Faust is.

I believe that we should lay the cards out on the table so that av1611jim and all the other readers will know what this discussion is about. It is about the teachings of Joey Faust in his book, The Rod: Will God Spare it? In this book Joey Faust teaches that Christians who sin will be punished for 1000 years during the millennial reign of Christ. Indeed, this is THE theme of this book and hence its title (will God spare the rod (hold back from punishing) during the millennial reign of Christ.

A further note needs to be added regarding “Free Grace Theology” since this is the theology that Joes Faust and James Newman teach. According to this theology, all that is needed for salvation is belief in Christ. Accepting Christ as one’s savior is all that is required. Accepting Christ as one’s Lord is NOT necessary. Neither is repentance from sin a requirement for salvation. A Believer can continue to live as before, and commit any number of gross atrocities and they will still spend eternity with Christ. They will be punished for 1000 years, but they will still spend eternity with Christ.

av1611jim, is this what you believe?

I believe that we are saved by grace through faith when we accept Jesus Christ as our Lord and savior. Joey Faust calls this a false teaching. He says that repentance is a work, and those who preach that repentance is required for salvation are preaching salvation by works. Unbelievable: Check out Joey Faust’s book for yourself.

I am a Baptist, not a heretic.

 

[Marcia]

This is not Roman doctrine. It is biblical. God demands obedience.
God demands holy living.
Always has, always will.
This in no way whatsoever does violence to the doctrine of salvation by faith alone in Christ alone.
The one is salvation.
The other is obedience AFTER salvation.

But we cannot be obedient in the flesh -- we still must live by the Spirit. As we love Jesus more and more, we desire to please Him and allow the HS to work in us. If we try to obey just in the flesh, it is not pleasing to God, for "without faith, it is impossible to please God."

I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by observing the law, or by believing what you heard? Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit, are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort?
Gal 3.2-3

We begin by faith and with the Spirit, and must finish by faith and with the Spirit. It is Christ in us who lives, not we ourselves.

 

[James_Newman]

Originally posted by Bro.Bill:
Obedience after salvation but before death.God chastens those He loves for correction sake for the good of the believer.
To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord is what Paul wrote concerning the believer.What puropse would it serve to discipline a believer after he/she is dead?

I don't claim to know the mind of God. Some things in the Bible may not make sense to our limited intellect, but we must accept that His ways are not our ways. The Bible says we must fear God.
Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Luke 12:5 But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.

As for being absent from the body... I don't think that Paul meant that as soon as we leave the body, we are with the Lord...

2Corinthians 5
8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.
10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
11 Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.

27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
The judgment is the JSOC, which occurs right before the millennial kingdom.

I believe it is the Father's will that we should inherit the kingdom, and as a motivation, there are negative rewards put forward for anyone who would rather seek their own pleasure in this life. Fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. This, combined with the promises offered to all who will die to themselves in this life, and labour to enter into the rest, provide enough motivation for any Christian to want to live a holy life. And Christ promises that He will give us the grace and the power to do so, if we have faith.

 

[James_Newman]

Originally posted by Marcia:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> This is not Roman doctrine. It is biblical. God demands obedience.
God demands holy living.
Always has, always will.
This in no way whatsoever does violence to the doctrine of salvation by faith alone in Christ alone.
The one is salvation.
The other is obedience AFTER salvation.

But we cannot be obedient in the flesh -- we still must live by the Spirit. As we love Jesus more and more, we desire to please Him and allow the HS to work in us. If we try to obey just in the flesh, it is not pleasing to God, for "without faith, it is impossible to please God."

I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by observing the law, or by believing what you heard? Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit, are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort?
Gal 3.2-3

We begin by faith and with the Spirit, and must finish by faith and with the Spirit. It is Christ in us who lives, not we ourselves. </font>[/QUOTE]We should serve God out of love, but love is not our only motivation for serving God. He has set rewards before us and commanded us to seek them.

Matthew 6:33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you

Hebrews 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

And never thinking that it is our own power that allows us to serve God and please Him, but it is Christ through us. This is always the understanding that we should have. He will bring us into His kingdom, we will not come of ourselves. But all Christians are not willing to allow Christ to work through them, and love this world and themselves more than God. They will miss out on the incredible blessings that God has offered them.

 

[Bro.Bill]

Dear James,
I disagree with you but do agree with myself.You have every right to think wharever you wish. I do know that all theological questions will be answered for me the moment I arrive in Heaven.You can wait until later if you like.

 

[wopik]

I do know that all theological questions will be answered for me the moment I arrive in Heaven.

Where does Scripture say the dead go to heaven ? I must read it to be reassured.

 

[Word Traveler]

Hi Guys, Will a Christian ever go to hell? I believe Scripture teaches eternal security. Christ said, "It is finished." His atoning work was done perfectly and completely! Otherwise, at what point does my sin become more powerful than Jesus Christ's ability to "keep" me? Do you honestly believe that one drop of Christ's precious blood will reside in hell? Hallelujah! I'm covered in it! In Christ, WT

 

[DeafPosttrib]

I read through three pages debate about salvation doctrine. This thread or topic already been through three pages so far in 3 days. I am aware of this topic is a hotly debate.

Matt. 25:26-30 tell us very clear and plain, that when the servants shall face Christ on the judgment day, Christ shall saying to a servant that he/she is a wicked and lazy servant, cast lazy servant into outer darkness. Outer darkness is not a temporary place, neither Christ saying this is a temporary place either. Obivously, it is eternality place, where lazy servants and unbelievers shall suffering there. It is same as lake of fire.

The context of Matt. 25:14-30 talk about the talents and the servants on the judgement day. Servants are obivously apply to us as Christians. A lazy servant who do not obey the Lord, and not doing it, will cast into the outer darkness -s a eternality place. It does not saying a lazy servant will be finally released out of the outer darkness after the millennial kingdom.

I did read through whole book of Joey Faust. I have so many things that I do not agree with his interpreting. I rather follow what the Bible saying than what men saying - Col. 2:8.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

 

[Craigbythesea]

DeafPosttrib,

Amen, Brother, preach it!