Will a Christian ever go to hell?

[James_Newman]

You still havent answered my post about the lake of fire though.

 

[Craigbythesea]

You still havent answered my post about the lake of fire though.

James,

I am not an authority on first-century oriental apocalyptic literature (this is the class of literature that The Revelation belongs to), but I know one who is. I shall consult with him and get back to you.

 

[Charles Meadows]

"BTW, just because I never went to seminary, do not assume that all KJVO's have not. Nor should you assume that a seminary will ensure you have the proper view of doctrine..."

Not having gone to a seminary does not make one ignorant. My father in law (never went to seminary) is the best preacher I've ever heard.

I would argue the going to seminary does not hurt one's ability to deliver the word of God. Knowledge is not inherently bad. For some to assume that one will "go to seminary and lose his faith and his fire for God" is a little misguided I think. This sounds like one who is afraid that some studying may upset his beliefs. Christ is the solid rock and not the slippery rug. We shouldn't fear acquisition of knowledge - even if it does cause us to at times revamp some of our traditional beliefs.

 

[Craigbythesea]

 

[James_Newman]

Originally posted by Craigbythesea:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> You still havent answered my post about the lake of fire though.

James,

I am not an authority on first-century oriental apocalyptic literature (this is the class of literature that The Revelation belongs to), but I know one who is. I shall consult with him and get back to you. </font>[/QUOTE]Hmmm, me start to see problem. Me not smart enough to classify what kind of scripture me read, me stupid and think All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

2Pet 1
3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

John 7:15 And the Jews marvelled, saying, How knoweth this man letters, having never learned?

Heb 4:2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.

Maybe the real difference between the scholar and the common man is that the common man just ignorantly believes the word of God, while the scholar classifies it?

 

[AVL1984]

Originally posted by James Newman:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by AVL1984:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by James Newman:
Psalm 139
7 Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence?
8 If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.

James, this doesn't say he intended to do so...it says "IF". It doesn't imply in any wise that he believes that Christians (born again believers) will spend time in Hell.

AVL1984 </font>[/QUOTE]My point is that the Bible teaches clearly that God is everywhere. We are not 'separated' from God just because we are cast into outer darkness, other than the sense that we are kept from experiencing fellowship with God for that time. That fellowship is then restored at the great white throne. But we cannot escape His presence. There is nothing in the Bible that says a Christian can't be chastised after death. If we make our own subjective reasonings to be our arguments, God will refute them one by one in His word. </font>[/QUOTE]It still in no wise indicates that born again believers will go to hell for any offense. Would seem to contradict scriptures to me, since Jesus allegedly paid it all. Loss of reward/positioning in Heaven is the more Biblical stance of the two. Hell was created for the devil and his angels, not for Christians.

AVL1984

 

[James_Newman]

Originally posted by AVL1984:
It still in no wise indicates that born again believers will go to hell for any offense. Would seem to contradict scriptures to me, since Jesus allegedly paid it all. Loss of reward/positioning in Heaven is the more Biblical stance of the two. Hell was created for the devil and his angels, not for Christians.

AVL1984

What you call more biblical is really just more widely taught. Punishment for disobedience is found all throughout the NT. Stripes != loss of crowns. Hellfire != janitor in the kingdom. It feels horrid to our flesh to even think that God might punish us beyond death, so we just ignore it, pretend like it's not in the bible, but it is. Some people say outer darkness is some place on earth slightly to the outside of the Kingdom, but I don't see how there will be any darkness on the earth at that time...

Rev 21
23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.
24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.
25 And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.

Those that are cast into outer darkness are not anywhere within range of this light, and it seems that this light encompasses the whole world.

 

[AVL1984]

I can't find any of the early Christian fathers who teach your point of view. And the reason it might be more widely taught is because it is a more scriptural view.

AVL1984

 

[Ed Edwards]

Romans 8:1 (HCSB = The Holman Christian Standard Bible)
Therefore, no condemnation now exists for those in Christ Jesus,


Ed thumbs thru (electronically speaking)
looking for

Therefore, no condemnation ever exists for those in Christ Jesus,

 

[Word Traveler]

Originally posted by Ed Edwards:
Romans 8:1 (HCSB = The Holman Christian Standard Bible)
Therefore, no condemnation now exists for those in Christ Jesus,


Ed thumbs thru (electronically speaking)
looking for

Therefore, no condemnation ever exists for those in Christ Jesus,

Amen! And Amen! Says it all doesn't it?

In Christ, WT

 

[DHK]

To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.

 

[DHK]

1 Thessalonians 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

 

[av1611jim]

duh yepper! ahm jes a poor dumb hic who dunno no betern ta believe whut God done said!
Gimme me a break! Seems as though there are some on this board who got a degree in arrogance when they got their diploma.
Quit it. You ain't no better equipped than 'joe average' who depends on GOD'S HOLY SPIRIT to teach him all truth. Deny it. And then call Jesus the liar, cuz' that was his promise.
Tell the truth, if you fellers are soooooo smart, then WHY don't you practice what one martyr wished for?
Loosely paraphrased he prayed there would come a day when the plowboy KNEW MORE SCRIPTURE than the "doctors of theology"
GLORY BE! THAT DAY HAS COME!
In His service;
Jim

 

[Word Traveler]

av1611jim

 

[JesusInFirstPlace]

I don't think that Christians will ever spend time in hell, but I am confused about that passage in Psalm 139: If I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there. Isn't being in hell being separated from Christ forever? So how could God be there??? Keep in mind that I believe that the Bible is the inspired, inerrant Word of God. I just don't understand!

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by av1611jim:

Tell the truth, if you fellers are soooooo smart, then WHY don't you practice what one martyr wished for?
Loosely paraphrased he prayed there would come a day when the plowboy KNEW MORE SCRIPTURE than the "doctors of theology"
GLORY BE! THAT DAY HAS COME!
In His service;
Jim

Jim, that was a quote from William Tyndale. If you were being honest and not hypocritical, you would be using Tyndale's translation, and not the KJV.

Tyndale's New Testament
"The newe Testament of oure Saviour Iesus Christe. Faythfully translated oute of the Greek. With notes and expositions of the darke places therein."

1553 - Octavo edition of Jugge's revision of Tyndale's version in "Black Letter" type. Two-page "Cosmographic Chart" of St. Paul's journeys, placed before the Epistles. The title page quotes Matthew: "The pearle which Christ comaunded to be boughte / Is here to be founde, not elles to be sought." This was the last Bible printed under the benign reign of Edward VI, who was succeeded by the "bloody" Queen Mary. (Herbert #105)

Tyndale's New Testament
DHK

 

[DHK]

I was surprised after reading this thread through. I never knew that there were Baptists that believed in purgatory. I used to be a Catholic, but the Lord saved me out of that heresy. Now I see the same heresy being promoted by Baptists again??

To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.
It is appointed unto man once to die but after this the judgement.
The Bible teaches no such 1000 year purgatory for Christians. Christ already paid the penalty. Catholic Baptists? Who'd a thot it!
DHK

 

[Craigbythesea]

Hmmm, me start to see problem. Me not smart enough to classify what kind of scripture me read, me stupid and think All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

Luke 1:1 Forasmuch as many have taken in hand to set forth in order a declaration of those things which are most surely believed among us,
Luke 1:2 Even as they delivered them unto us, which from the beginning were eyewitnesses, and ministers of the word;
Luke 1:3 It seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first, to write unto thee in order, most excellent Theophilus,
Luke 1:4 That thou mightest know the certainty of those things, wherein thou hast been instructed.

Mr. Newman,

I do NOT believe that you are stupid.

 

[Craigbythesea]

Originally posted by av1611jim:
duh yepper! ahm jes a poor dumb hic who dunno no betern ta believe whut God done said!
Gimme me a break! Seems as though there are some on this board who got a degree in arrogance when they got their diploma.
Quit it. You ain't no better equipped than 'joe average' who depends on GOD'S HOLY SPIRIT to teach him all truth. Deny it. And then call Jesus the liar, cuz' that was his promise.
Tell the truth, if you fellers are soooooo smart, then WHY don't you practice what one martyr wished for?
Loosely paraphrased he prayed there would come a day when the plowboy KNEW MORE SCRIPTURE than the "doctors of theology"
GLORY BE! THAT DAY HAS COME!
In His service;
Jim

Jim,

This thread is NOT about the level of your intelligence, nor is it about how well you know the Bible. This thread is about the doctrine of purgatory. Even the Roman Catholic Church does not twist and distort the Gospels like Joey Faust does to “prove” this doctrine. Catholics simply have too much respect for the word of God to do such a thing. This tread, and the other threads arguing for the doctrine of purgatory, should, in my opinion, be moved to some Other Religions forum. Most certainly the doctrine of purgatory is NOT a Baptist doctrine.

There are several new and struggling believers that look to the Baptist forums for spiritual help. How sad it is that they are being taught that the Bible teaches that Christians will spend 1000 years in purgatory.

 

[James_Newman]

I suppose I will have to start a new thread to discuss the differences between this doctrine and purgatory. Perhaps we can better understand why purgatory is not biblical if we contrast it with a scriptural view of chastisement. However, as Shakespear said, what's in a name?

DHK, where in the Bible does it say to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord?