Spirit and soul are not used interchangeably.
The Greek and Hebrew for soul are translated as those you listed other than spirit.
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Will ALL children go.....?
- Thread starter Askjo
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Spirit and soul are not used interchangeably.
The Greek and Hebrew for soul are translated as those you listed other than spirit.
You are entitled to your opinion (and to be wrong
)One think I have encountered is dichotomists are quite firm in their understanding as many of their theological views are based on it (reformed)
Willis,
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convicted1
Guest
Where did I say that everyone would be saved?? Look, I showed you the greek word used for "propitiation", and that it appeased God's wrath concerning sin. Every year under the Law, a sacrifice had to be made, but Jesus did this once, for all eternity. Under the Law, the sin sacrifice was for all of Israel, but it was only they who chose to believe what the Prophets told them, that reaped the benefits of the atonement.
Exodus 12
1 And the LORD spake unto Moses and Aaron in the land of Egypt saying,
2 This month shall be unto you the beginning of months: it shall be the first month of the year to you.
3 Speak ye unto all the congregation of Israel, saying, In the tenth day of this month they shall take to them every man a lamb, according to the house of their fathers, a lamb for an house:
4 And if the household be too little for the lamb, let him and his neighbour next unto his house take it according to the number of the souls; every man according to his eating shall make your count for the lamb.
5 Your lamb shall be without blemish, a male of the first year: ye shall take it out from the sheep, or from the goats:
6 And ye shall keep it up until the fourteenth day of the same month: and the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it in the evening.
7 And they shall take of the blood, and strike it on the two side posts and on the upper door post of the houses, wherein they shall eat it.
8 And they shall eat the flesh in that night, roast with fire, and unleavened bread; and with bitter herbs they shall eat it.
9 Eat not of it raw, nor sodden at all with water, but roast with fire; his head with his legs, and with the purtenance thereof.
10 And ye shall let nothing of it remain until the morning; and that which remaineth of it until the morning ye shall burn with fire.
11 And thus shall ye eat it; with your loins girded, your shoes on your feet, and your staff in your hand; and ye shall eat it in haste: it is the LORD's passover.
12 For I will pass through the land of Egypt this night, and will smite all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both man and beast; and against all the gods of Egypt I will execute judgment: I am the LORD.
13 And the blood shall be to you for a token upon the houses where ye are: and when I see the blood, I will pass over you, and the plague shall not be upon you to destroy you, when I smite the land of Egypt.
14 And this day shall be unto you for a memorial; and ye shall keep it a feast to the LORD throughout your generations; ye shall keep it a feast by an ordinance for ever.
Read this passage very carefully, and pay close attention to verse 13. All of Israel at this time were given this command to do, and they did it, and none of Israel was harmed. Now, read on further when you have time, and see what they did after Moses led them out of Egypt by the hand of God. Many perished due to unbelief, yet, the blood sacrifice in Exodus 12 was for all of Israel.
Boy, you sure missed your calling as a lawyer, Brother. You have a way of misrepresenting what Jesus was really saying. This was a metaphor contrasting CHRISTians(Sheep) and sinners(goats). Look at this passage here for an example:
John 8:42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
Now, if you took this which I bolded in the literal sense, then Jesus was telling them that Satan was their father through creation. What Jesus was saying was that they were serving Satan by doing what he was wanting them to do, commit sin, and also reject Jesus as the prophesied Messiah. They were Satan's sons through living their sinful lifestyles, IOW.Satan was our father in the sense that we once served him by our sinful lifestyle. Now, God is our Father because we now serve Him.
convicted1
Guest
Greek words used for "Spirit":
G4151 pneuma πνεῦμα
Thayer's:
1) the third person of the triune God, the Holy Spirit, coequal, coeternal with the Father and the Son
a) sometimes referred to in a way which emphasises his personality and character (the "Holy" Spirit)
b) sometimes referred to in a way which emphasises his work and power (the Spirit of "Truth")
c) never referred to as a depersonalised force
2) the spirit, i.e. the vital principal by which the body is animated
a) the rational spirit, the power by which the human being feels, thinks, decides
b) the soul
3) a spirit, i.e. a simple essence, devoid of all or at least all grosser matter, and possessed of the power of knowing, desiring, deciding, and acting
a) a life giving spirit
b) a human soul that has left the body
c) a spirit higher than man but lower than God, i.e. an angel
1) used of demons, or evil spirits, who were conceived as inhabiting the bodies of men
2) the spiritual nature of Christ, higher than the highest angels and equal to God, the divine nature of Christ
4) the disposition or influence which fills and governs the soul of any one
a) the efficient source of any power, affection, emotion, desire, etc.
5) a movement of air (a gentle blast)
a) of the wind, hence the wind itself
b) breath of nostrils or mouth
G5326 phantasma φάντασμα
Thayer's:
1) an appearance
2) an apparition, spectre
To the best of my knowledge, these are the only two Greek words used to translate the word "Spirit".
Now, the Greek words used for "soul":
G5590 psychē ψυχή
Thayers's:
1) breath
a) the breath of life
1) the vital force which animates the body and shows itself in breathing
a) of animals
b) of men
b) life
c) that in which there is life
1) a living being, a living soul
2) the soul
a) the seat of the feelings, desires, affections, aversions (our heart, soul etc.)
b) the (human) soul in so far as it is constituted that by the right use of the aids offered it by God it can attain its highest end and secure eternal blessedness, the soul regarded as a moral being designed for everlasting life
c) the soul as an essence which differs from the body and is not dissolved by death (distinguished from other parts of the body)
1) breath
a) the breath of life
1) the vital force which animates the body and shows itself in breathing
a) of animals
b) of men
b) life
c) that in which there is life
1) a living being, a living soul
2) the soul
a) the seat of the feelings, desires, affections, aversions (our heart, soul etc.)
b) the (human) soul in so far as it is constituted that by the right use of the aids offered it by God it can attain its highest end and secure eternal blessedness, the soul regarded as a moral being designed for everlasting life
c) the soul as an essence which differs from the body and is not dissolved by death (distinguished from other parts of the body)
Hebrew word used for "soul":
H5315 nephesh נֶפֶשׁ
Thayer's:
1) soul, self, life, creature, person, appetite, mind, living being, desire, emotion, passion
a) that which breathes, the breathing substance or being, soul, the inner being of man
b) living being
c) living being (with life in the blood)
d) the man himself, self, person or individual
e) seat of the appetites
f) seat of emotions and passions
g) activity of mind
1) dubious
h) activity of the will
1) dubious
i) activity of the character
1) dubious
Hebrew word used for "Spirit":
H7307 ruwach רוּחַ
Thayer's:
1) wind, breath, mind, spirit
a) breath
b) wind
1) of heaven
2) quarter (of wind), side
3) breath of air
4) air, gas
5) vain, empty thing
c) spirit (as that which breathes quickly in animation or agitation)
1) spirit, animation, vivacity, vigour
2) courage
3) temper, anger
4) impatience, patience
5) spirit, disposition (as troubled, bitter, discontented)
6) disposition (of various kinds), unaccountable or uncontrollable impulse
7) prophetic spirit
d) spirit (of the living, breathing being in man and animals)
1) as gift, preserved by God, God's spirit, departing at death, disembodied being
e) spirit (as seat of emotion)
1) desire
2) sorrow, trouble
f) spirit
1) as seat or organ of mental acts
2) rarely of the will
3) as seat especially of moral character
g) Spirit of God, the third person of the triune God, the Holy Spirit, coequal, coeternal with the Father and the Son
1) as inspiring ecstatic state of prophecy
2) as impelling prophet to utter instruction or warning
3) imparting warlike energy and executive and administrative power
4) as endowing men with various gifts
5) as energy of life
6) as manifest in the Shekinah glory
7) never referred to as a depersonalised force
When you take a close look at both the words "soul" and spirit" in the OT and NT, they have pretty much the same function. They describe the inner man, and not inner men. Adam was lifeless(nothing but his physical body), until God breathed into him the breath of life, and he became a living soul, not soul and spirit.
G4151 pneuma πνεῦμα
Thayer's:
1) the third person of the triune God, the Holy Spirit, coequal, coeternal with the Father and the Son
a) sometimes referred to in a way which emphasises his personality and character (the "Holy" Spirit)
b) sometimes referred to in a way which emphasises his work and power (the Spirit of "Truth")
c) never referred to as a depersonalised force
2) the spirit, i.e. the vital principal by which the body is animated
a) the rational spirit, the power by which the human being feels, thinks, decides
b) the soul
3) a spirit, i.e. a simple essence, devoid of all or at least all grosser matter, and possessed of the power of knowing, desiring, deciding, and acting
a) a life giving spirit
b) a human soul that has left the body
c) a spirit higher than man but lower than God, i.e. an angel
1) used of demons, or evil spirits, who were conceived as inhabiting the bodies of men
2) the spiritual nature of Christ, higher than the highest angels and equal to God, the divine nature of Christ
4) the disposition or influence which fills and governs the soul of any one
a) the efficient source of any power, affection, emotion, desire, etc.
5) a movement of air (a gentle blast)
a) of the wind, hence the wind itself
b) breath of nostrils or mouth
G5326 phantasma φάντασμα
Thayer's:
1) an appearance
2) an apparition, spectre
To the best of my knowledge, these are the only two Greek words used to translate the word "Spirit".
Now, the Greek words used for "soul":
G5590 psychē ψυχή
Thayers's:
1) breath
a) the breath of life
1) the vital force which animates the body and shows itself in breathing
a) of animals
b) of men
b) life
c) that in which there is life
1) a living being, a living soul
2) the soul
a) the seat of the feelings, desires, affections, aversions (our heart, soul etc.)
b) the (human) soul in so far as it is constituted that by the right use of the aids offered it by God it can attain its highest end and secure eternal blessedness, the soul regarded as a moral being designed for everlasting life
c) the soul as an essence which differs from the body and is not dissolved by death (distinguished from other parts of the body)
1) breath
a) the breath of life
1) the vital force which animates the body and shows itself in breathing
a) of animals
b) of men
b) life
c) that in which there is life
1) a living being, a living soul
2) the soul
a) the seat of the feelings, desires, affections, aversions (our heart, soul etc.)
b) the (human) soul in so far as it is constituted that by the right use of the aids offered it by God it can attain its highest end and secure eternal blessedness, the soul regarded as a moral being designed for everlasting life
c) the soul as an essence which differs from the body and is not dissolved by death (distinguished from other parts of the body)
Hebrew word used for "soul":
H5315 nephesh נֶפֶשׁ
Thayer's:
1) soul, self, life, creature, person, appetite, mind, living being, desire, emotion, passion
a) that which breathes, the breathing substance or being, soul, the inner being of man
b) living being
c) living being (with life in the blood)
d) the man himself, self, person or individual
e) seat of the appetites
f) seat of emotions and passions
g) activity of mind
1) dubious
h) activity of the will
1) dubious
i) activity of the character
1) dubious
Hebrew word used for "Spirit":
H7307 ruwach רוּחַ
Thayer's:
1) wind, breath, mind, spirit
a) breath
b) wind
1) of heaven
2) quarter (of wind), side
3) breath of air
4) air, gas
5) vain, empty thing
c) spirit (as that which breathes quickly in animation or agitation)
1) spirit, animation, vivacity, vigour
2) courage
3) temper, anger
4) impatience, patience
5) spirit, disposition (as troubled, bitter, discontented)
6) disposition (of various kinds), unaccountable or uncontrollable impulse
7) prophetic spirit
d) spirit (of the living, breathing being in man and animals)
1) as gift, preserved by God, God's spirit, departing at death, disembodied being
e) spirit (as seat of emotion)
1) desire
2) sorrow, trouble
f) spirit
1) as seat or organ of mental acts
2) rarely of the will
3) as seat especially of moral character
g) Spirit of God, the third person of the triune God, the Holy Spirit, coequal, coeternal with the Father and the Son
1) as inspiring ecstatic state of prophecy
2) as impelling prophet to utter instruction or warning
3) imparting warlike energy and executive and administrative power
4) as endowing men with various gifts
5) as energy of life
6) as manifest in the Shekinah glory
7) never referred to as a depersonalised force
When you take a close look at both the words "soul" and spirit" in the OT and NT, they have pretty much the same function. They describe the inner man, and not inner men. Adam was lifeless(nothing but his physical body), until God breathed into him the breath of life, and he became a living soul, not soul and spirit.
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If a mosquito lands on your arm swells with blood and you smash it splattering the blood on your arm, will that mosquito be in the kingdom of God?
Will the man called Abraham who died not having received the promises be in the kingdom of God?
If the man born of the virgin Mary begotten in her of the Spirit of God and who died had not been resurrected from the dead by the Father who beget him, would the man Abraham be in the kingdom of God?
Which statement is the absolute truth? A. Ye shall not surely die: or B. for in the day of thine eating of it -- dying thou dost die.'
God is Spirit and Spirit is Life. There is not any life apart from God. God made man subject to absence of life upon disobedience for the purpose of not being able to be eternal in disobedience. The first man Adam was not made perfect but was made in the image of God so the last man Christ dying in the fashion the first man was made could destroy both disobedience which brings death and comes from Satan an eternal created being and thereby destroying the power of Satan. This is done by the begotten son of God being born as the Son of man dying and then being given eternal life by resurrection from the dead. That Spirit life can then be given to whom God chooses through his resurrected Son as an earnest until their resurrection from the dead with perfect Spirit Life.
Satan wants man to believe he lives forever but he only lives forever if God gives him life through resurrection to eternal life.
I will leave it up to ya'll to determine how body Spirit and spirit soul figures into this.
convicted1
Guest
Now, let's take a look at how Jesus operated when He first sent His Disciples out to accomplish His will.
Matt. 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.
At this time, the Gentiles were out of luck, or so it seems. But He knew what was going to happen waaaay before He was to come to fulfill the Law. Jesus came FIRST to His chosen(elect) people.
John 1:11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name.
Right here backs what I stated previously. Jesus came to His elect(Jews), and they rejected Him. He then turned to the Gentiles after the Jews rejecting Him.
Romans 11:17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.
20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.
24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?
The Jews were the natural branches that were broken off(Jesus being the Olive Tree), and we(Gentiles) are the wild olive branches. Through the Jews choice of not believing Jesus' words(unbelief), they were cut off. We then were grafted in, being the wild olive branch.
Well, Romans 5:6 states that Christ died for the ungodly, nothing more, nothing less. All have sinned and come short of the glory of God, and the scriptures have concluded all under sin. Every sinner on this earth is lost. Not just the "elect" that are bidding their time until Jesus saves them, but all the lost whether they be "elect" or "non-elect".
Who were His sheep? When Jesus came, He came FIRST to the Jews, His CHOSEN people. The Jews were His sheep, and they rejected their Shepherd, plain and simple.
Good question. Let's take a look at why Zacchaeus was saved.
Luke 19
1 And Jesus entered and passed through Jericho.
2 And, behold, there was a man named Zacchaeus, which was the chief among the publicans, and he was rich.
3 And he sought to see Jesus who he was; and could not for the press, because he was little of stature.
4 And he ran before, and climbed up into a sycomore tree to see him: for he was to pass that way.
5 And when Jesus came to the place, he looked up, and saw him, and said unto him, Zacchaeus, make haste, and come down; for to day I must abide at thy house.
6 And he made haste, and came down, and received him joyfully.
7 And when they saw it, they all murmured, saying, That he was gone to be guest with a man that is a sinner.
8 And Zacchaeus stood, and said unto the Lord: Behold, Lord, the half of my goods I give to the poor; and if I have taken any thing from any man by false accusation, I restore him fourfold.
9 And Jesus said unto him, This day is salvation come to this house, forsomuch as he also is a son of Abraham.
Here is why Zacchaeus was saved:
1) He heard that Jesus was coming by that way, and ran out to find Him.
2) When Jesus spoke to him, he did what Jesus told him to do, "make haste and come down," because He was to abode in Zacchaeus' house that day.
3) Received Him Joyfully.
4) And most important of all, he repented of his evil deeds(sins).
Well, that's your opinion that were weren't the children of promise. They did not obtain salvation because they willfully rejected Jesus. They were of their father, the devil, because of their sinful living.
To take this further, the Jews went through judical hardening due to their continual rejection of God. They even stooped so low as to offer the lame, halt, blind, etc when they gave to the High Priest to make their sacrifices. It was through their continual rebellion that this hardening occurred. God did not do this unprovoked, but it was through their evildoings that He hardened their hearts.
Malachi 1:7 Ye offer polluted bread upon mine altar; and ye say, Wherein have we polluted thee? In that ye say, The table of the LORD is contemptible.
8 And if ye offer the blind for sacrifice, is it not evil? and if ye offer the lame and sick, is it not evil? offer it now unto thy governor; will he be pleased with thee, or accept thy person? saith the LORD of hosts.
13 Ye said also, Behold, what a weariness is it! and ye have snuffed at it, saith the LORD of hosts; and ye brought that which was torn, and the lame, and the sick; thus ye brought an offering: should I accept this of your hand? saith the LORD.
14 But cursed be the deceiver, which hath in his flock a male, and voweth, and sacrificeth unto the LORD a corrupt thing: for I am a great King, saith the LORD of hosts, and my name is dreadful among the heathen.
Malachi 2
1 And now, O ye priests, this commandment is for you.
2 If ye will not hear, and if ye will not lay it to heart, to give glory unto my name, saith the LORD of hosts, I will even send a curse upon you, and I will curse your blessings: yea, I have cursed them already, because ye do not lay it to heart.
8 But ye are departed out of the way; ye have caused many to stumble at the law; ye have corrupted the covenant of Levi, saith the LORD of hosts.
9 Therefore have I also made you contemptible and base before all the people, according as ye have not kept my ways, but have been partial in the law.
10 Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us? why do we deal treacherously every man against his brother, by profaning the covenant of our fathers?
11 Judah hath dealt treacherously, and an abomination is committed in Israel and in Jerusalem; for Judah hath profaned the holiness of the LORD which he loved, and hath married the daughter of a strange god.
12 The LORD will cut off the man that doeth this, the master and the scholar, out of the tabernacles of Jacob, and him that offereth an offering unto the LORD of hosts.
So you see, Brother, they were cut off from God, by their continual rebellion. Not that God had cut them off from birth, or better yet, not of the children of promise, but by their continual rejection of Him.
I really have enjoyed this debate, and I pray that none of what I have posted has offended you in any way. I do not go that route in debates(being smart aleck), but if I disagree with someone, I do so in love. I pray that you are the same way. may God richly bless you this weekend, and that He keeps His hands upon you and your family!! I love you, Brother!! :thumbs::thumbs:
i am I AM's!!
Willis
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Hosea 1:4 And the LORD said unto him, Call his name Jezreel; for yet a little [while], and I will avenge the blood of Jezreel upon the house of Jehu, and will cause to cease the kingdom of the house of Israel.
Hosea 1:6 And she conceived again, and bare a daughter. And [God] said unto him, Call her name Loruhamah: for I will no more have mercy upon the house of Israel; but I will utterly take them away.
Hosea 1:7 But I will have mercy upon the house of Judah, and will save them by the LORD their God, and will not save them by bow, nor by sword, nor by battle, by horses, nor by horsemen.
Together those above were Amos 3:1 O children of Israel, against the whole family which I brought up from the land of Egypt. Also called whole house of Israel, or just Israel. Amos 3:2 You only have I known of all the families of the earth: therefore I will punish you for all your iniquities.
Of all the families of the earth only the people of the family of a man whose name God changed to Israel were intimately known by the Living God. The foreknown (intimately) of God. That is what God's word says.
The house of Judah seceded from Israel. The house of Israel god took away and scattered them. Where? Speaking of Ephraim (head of the house of Israel) Hosea 9:17 My God will cast them away, because they did not hearken unto him: and they shall be wanderers among the nations. (gowy Gentiles) Again Hosea 8:8 Israel is swallowed up: now shall they be among the Gentiles (gowy nations in 9:17) as a vessel wherein no pleasure.
Who was prophesied to be the fullness of the nations (Gentiles)?
Gen. 48:19 And his father refused, and said, I know [it], my son, I know [it]: he also shall become a people, and he also shall be great: but truly his younger brother (Ephraim) shall be greater than he, and his seed shall become a multitude (mĕlo' fulness) of nations gowy Gentiles).
Romans 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
To what part of the whole house of Israel do you think God caused blindness to happen to until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in?
He (the lion of the tribe of Judah) came unto his own and his own received him not but as to as many as.
To the Jew first and also to the Greek. Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?