Will Catholics Be "Left Behind"?

[3AngelsMom]

Originally posted by BobRyan:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> Kelly said -
That's not a statement. That is a request.

Here I'll make it a little more clear for you.

Can you show us a verse that undeniably proves that man has an immortal soul, or an immortal body, or anything else that is immortal RIGHT NOW?

Just one will do. You don't have to find a bunch. Just show us ONE verse that says that man is immortal RIGHT NOW.

He has posted it already - I believe it was " Man HAS an immortal Soul like it or not".

Which was right to the point.

In Christ,

Bob </font>[/QUOTE]I must be reading from the wrong translation then, I have looked in the KJV, the NKJV, the NIV, the NASB, my Literal on my PC, and in a search engine on the net, and none of the known Bible versions contain that text!

Maybe DHK has his OWN Bible.

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by 3AngelsMom:

Maybe DHK has his OWN Bible.

Yes, you're right. I do have my own Bible. It is KJV. Your problem is that you do not know how to read and respond to the posts already made. And that is no laughing matter.
DHK

 

[Ray Berrian]

Joseph Botwinick,

When I went to seminary I had to rethink and change a couple of my ideas. Repeating the 'party line' is not the right way to be open to the insights of other men of God.

I would love to know if Catholic seminarians ever study Greek or Hebrew; I would guess that Latin is required.

Anyway, Phillip was {harpazo} 'caught away' by the Lord and found himself in Azotus. [Acts 8:39] The Apostle Paul was {harpazo] 'pulled up' into the third Heaven in II Cor. 12:2. And the Apostle John says that ' . . . the woman's child was 'pulled up as by force' up to God, and to His throne.' All of these definitions of 'harpazo' are interchangeable.

Notice, that when Christ come for His church in the clouds it is only ' . . . the dead in Christ' who will rise from the dead at His shout. By defining His truth Jesus wants us to know that only His people will be raised at this time and not a general resurrection of everyone including sinners. Sinners will all be raised together [Revelation 20:5a] and will immediately go to Christ's final judgment at what John says will be, The Great White Throne Judgment [Rev. 20:11].

So when Christ comes for His people as documented in I Thess. 4:14-18, He will raise the Christians who have died and the living saints, the people of God, will be {harpazo} 'caught up' together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air; and so shall we ever be with the Lord.' This is what theologians and evangelical Christians call the rapture of the church.

At the rapture Christ come only to the cloud level of His created world for His saints; at the Second Coming Jesus comes with His saints from Heaven and actually comes to the earth. In I Thess. 4:14-18 the picture is of the saints going up; in Revelation 19:14 ' . . . the armies of saints, previously taken up in the rapture, are now coming down ' . . . clothed in white linen.' How do we know this? Zechariah 14:2 says that He will gather all nations to Jerusalem for battle, verse three says Jesus will stand on the mount Olives, in vs. 5 Azal is a small town near Jerusalem. Jerusalem is referred to in Zechariah 14:8, and at His Second Coming He will be king over the entire earth-the Millennial reign of 1,000 years, and again Jerusalem is actually referred to in vs's, 12,14,16, 21, and Egypt is a real country in our day that will be visited with the Lord's judgment. Why? Because they are Muslim and He will kill those who refuse to worship Him in Jerusalem.

Review this and I believe you will come to the same conclusion as mega evangelical theologians and Bible expositors.

Blessings to you and your family.

 

[3AngelsMom]

Originally posted by DHK:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by 3AngelsMom:

Maybe DHK has his OWN Bible.

Yes, you're right. I do have my own Bible. It is KJV. Your problem is that you do not know how to read and respond to the posts already made. And that is no laughing matter.
DHK </font>[/QUOTE]

I don't know how to read the posts????

I said you must have your OWN Bible, you know, your OWN.

I already looked in the KJV, that was one that I mentioned.

You just can't seem to accept that the doctrine you think we MUST accept is NOT IN THE BIBLE.

Thanks for playing.

 

[3AngelsMom]

Ray,

Who is Joseph Botzwink?

Who ya talkin to?

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by 3AngelsMom:
You just can't seem to accept that the doctrine you think we MUST accept is NOT IN THE BIBLE.

Thanks for playing.

So as usual, when you can't accept the answer, or respont to a post with a legitimate answer, you only use sarcasm which is an automatic raising of the white flag of defeat. You are afraid to deal with the facts of this thread in as much as you are with the other thread.
DHK

 

[3AngelsMom]

DHK,

You are so entertaining!

Did you make your own Bible translation, and THAT is where your proof text came from?

When both of us asked you to provide text support for your statement, your response was 'whether you like it or not'!!!!

The DHKV, helping people worldwide to teach heresy and falshood, with a way to prove it!

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by 3AngelsMom:
DHK,

You are so entertaining!

Did you make your own Bible translation, and THAT is where your proof text came from?

When both of us asked you to provide text support for your statement, your response was 'whether you like it or not'!!!!

The DHKV, helping people worldwide to teach heresy and falshood, with a way to prove it!

That is a false accusation, and slander. I have responded to your post with Scripture which you have not bothered to read. Your only answer is mockery. That is nothing but defeat.
You ought to be ashamed.

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by DHK:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by 3AngelsMom:

Here I'll make it a little more clear for you.

Can you show us a verse that undeniably proves that man has an immortal soul, or an immortal body, or anything else that is immortal RIGHT NOW?

Just one will do. You don't have to find a bunch. Just show us ONE verse that says that man is immortal RIGHT NOW.

Thanks

Rev.20:10,15 </font>[/QUOTE]For 3AM who cannot read

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by DHK:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by BobRyan:


The blatantly obvious point that they held firmly to "God is NOT the God of the dead" (Matt 22) does not seem to hit home with you.

The fact that THIS POINT ALONE was used as proof of the resurrection - because ONLY by the resurrection COULD God's statement to Moses be correct (based on the logic Christ is using) AFTER the death of Abraham - also does not seem to hit home with you.

You have apparently missed the entire discussion of Matt 22 - which EVEN the Sadduccess got - and it was so blatant that the Pharisees (who had been debating the Sadducees on this very point forever) recognized that complete defeat of the Sadducees because Christ used THEIR OWN doctrinal view of the state of the dead to PROVE the resurrection.

In Christ,

Bob

"God is not the God of the dead; but of the living." He is not he God of the spiritually dead, but rather the spiritually alive. It was Abraham that was and is alive spiritually as opposed to Abimilech or Pharaoh that were dead spiritually. Abrahahm's spirit lived on in Paradise as witnessed by Lazarus and the rich man. Pharaoh's spirit lived and continues to live on in Hell, and will face his final sentencing at the Great White Throne Judgement, where he will be cast in the lake of fire and be tormented day nad night forever and ever, as the Bible says.

Abraham will be resurrurected in the resurrection of the just.
Pharaoh will be resurrected in the resurrection of the unjust (just over a thousand years later).
God is the God of the living. The spiritual living, not the spiritual dead, nor the immortal dead that will be cast into the lake of fire.
The Saduccess did not believe in the spirit or the resurrection. Jesus made a case for them both. There is a spirit that lives on. There is a body that will be resurrceted.
DHK </font>[/QUOTE]For 3AM who does not bother to read.

 

[Ray Berrian]

3AngelsMom,

I apologize. I posted my thoughts under the wrong Topic.

Thanks! Ray

 

[Ray Berrian]

3AngelsMom,

Joseph Botwinick offered his post under this topic: "Will Catholics Be Left Behind." His post can be seen on page 1 ---the 5th post down the page. I was responding to his general lack of knowledge as to the real live event soon to happen called the rapture of the church. I have never read any of the popular 'rapture books' that have sold over 50 million copies. They were to much like a story book forte, from what I could see while briefly looking at the Walmart Store. My forte is theological texts but more so in exegetical interpretation from the Bible, the Word of God.

Incidentally, all people who know and love Jesus will be 'caught up' to meet the Lord in the air. [I Thessalonians 4:17] whether Catholic, Protestant, Baptist, or Messianic Christian or Christians from any other denomination. Just because people do not have their theology correct does not mean they will not rise to be with Christ in the clouds.

I look for Him to come in all of His resplendent glory.

 

[3AngelsMom]

Originally posted by DHK:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by DHK:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by 3AngelsMom:

Here I'll make it a little more clear for you.

Can you show us a verse that undeniably proves that man has an immortal soul, or an immortal body, or anything else that is immortal RIGHT NOW?

Just one will do. You don't have to find a bunch. Just show us ONE verse that says that man is immortal RIGHT NOW.

Thanks

Rev.20:10,15 </font>[/QUOTE]For 3AM who cannot read </font>[/QUOTE]

I don't know what your Bible says, but the KJV doesn't say ANYTHING about man being immortal RIGHT NOW in those verses!

Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Unless I am mistaken, those verses are both PROPHETIC, meaning, they are FUTURE.

Does not qualify for RIGHT NOW.

 

[3AngelsMom]

Originally posted by DHK:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by 3AngelsMom:
DHK,

You are so entertaining!

Did you make your own Bible translation, and THAT is where your proof text came from?

When both of us asked you to provide text support for your statement, your response was 'whether you like it or not'!!!!

The DHKV, helping people worldwide to teach heresy and falshood, with a way to prove it!

That is a false accusation, and slander. I have responded to your post with Scripture which you have not bothered to read. Your only answer is mockery. That is nothing but defeat.
You ought to be ashamed. </font>[/QUOTE]DHK,

Come OFF it!

Your behavior in this forum has gone far beyond shame. I could never even come close to the antichristian behavior that you have exibited.

Since when is it a sin to laugh?

I only mock because you make yourself look foolish, and there is no logical response to someone who doesn't answer logically.

You have yet to show FROM the the BIBLE (all accepted versions are fine) that man has anything that is immortal RIGHT NOW.

I think at this point, we both know that is impossible, so do as you always do, tell me I am lost, and not really a Christian, or change the subject to the Trinity.

 

[3AngelsMom]

Originally posted by Ray Berrian:
3AngelsMom,

Joseph Botwinick offered his post under this topic: "Will Catholics Be Left Behind." His post can be seen on page 1 ---the 5th post down the page. I was responding to his general lack of knowledge as to the real live event soon to happen called the rapture of the church. I have never read any of the popular 'rapture books' that have sold over 50 million copies. They were to much like a story book forte, from what I could see while briefly looking at the Walmart Store. My forte is theological texts but more so in exegetical interpretation from the Bible, the Word of God.

Incidentally, all people who know and love Jesus will be 'caught up' to meet the Lord in the air. [I Thessalonians 4:17] whether Catholic, Protestant, Baptist, or Messianic Christian or Christians from any other denomination. Just because people do not have their theology correct does not mean they will not rise to be with Christ in the clouds.

I look for Him to come in all of His resplendent glory.

Thanks Ray,
I was hoping you would direct us to where that post was!

It all makes sense again......

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by 3AngelsMom:

That is a false accusation, and slander. I have responded to your post with Scripture which you have not bothered to read. Your only answer is mockery. That is nothing but defeat.
You ought to be ashamed. [/QUOTE]DHK,

Come OFF it!

Your behavior in this forum has gone far beyond shame. I could never even come close to the antichristian behavior that you have exibited.

Since when is it a sin to laugh?

I only mock because you make yourself look foolish, and there is no logical response to someone who doesn't answer logically.

You have yet to show FROM the the BIBLE (all accepted versions are fine) that man has anything that is immortal RIGHT NOW.

I think at this point, we both know that is impossible, so do as you always do, tell me I am lost, and not really a Christian, or change the subject to the Trinity.

Perhaps the moderator should step in at this point. You don't have the decency to respond to a post without a ton of sarcasm and mockery for God's Word. I give you Scripture, you give me mockery. What kind of person are you?

It is appinted unto a man once to die, and after this the judgement (Heb. 9:27).
Then you may read again Rev. 20:10,15.

BTW, Did it ever occur to you, that though there is a definite sequence of events in chronological time here on earth, there is no time in eternity. That is a difficult concept for many to grasp. Try hard There is no time in eternity. Thus, you will go to heaven and just may find yourself body and all at the Great White Throne Judgement, for God does not confine himself by time. A thousand years is as a day; and a day is as a thousand years. There are no future events in Heaven.
DHK

 

[3AngelsMom]

DHK,

If a moderator needed to step in, they should have done it a long time ago, like say when you called me a 'poor lost soul', or when you have continually responded to my legitimate arguments with sladerous things such as, I am a damnable heretic, and worthy of hell!

Your behavior is deplorable.

And you have the gall to try and call up moderators on ME?

Sheesh

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by 3AngelsMom:
DHK,

If a moderator needed to step in, they should have done it a long time ago, like say when you called me a 'poor lost soul', or when you have continually responded to my legitimate arguments with sladerous things such as, I am a damnable heretic, and worthy of hell!

Your behavior is deplorable.

And you have the gall to try and call up moderators on ME?

Sheesh

Still no answers to the posts and Scriptures given. What is wrong 3AM?

 

[BobRyan]

Ray gets the subject back on topic --

Incidentally, all people who know and love Jesus will be 'caught up' to meet the Lord in the air. [I Thessalonians 4:17] whether Catholic, Protestant, Baptist, or Messianic Christian or Christians from any other denomination. Just because people do not have their theology correct does not mean they will not rise to be with Christ in the clouds.

Excellent point Ray!

In Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Ray said --
Notice, that when Christ come for His church in the clouds it is only ' . . . the dead in Christ' who will rise from the dead at His shout. By defining His truth Jesus wants us to know that only His people will be raised at this time and not a general resurrection of everyone including sinners. Sinners will all be raised together [Revelation 20:5a] and will immediately go to Christ's final judgment at what John says will be, The Great White Throne Judgment [Rev. 20:11].

So when Christ comes for His people as documented in I Thess. 4:14-18, He will raise the Christians who have died and the living saints, the people of God, will be {harpazo} 'caught up' together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air; and so shall we ever be with the Lord.' This is what theologians and evangelical Christians call the rapture of the church.

At the rapture Christ come only to the cloud level of His created world for His saints;

This is all true - with the exception of the separation of the "First resurrection" in Rev 20 from the First resurrection that we see at the very next appearance of Christ in 1Thess 4.

In fact Rev 20 tells us that there are two resurrections and those raised in the first resurrection are not subject to the second death. That resurrection is associated with the appearance of Christ in the clouds of heaven as seen in Rev 19.

1 Thess 4 tells us that those raised at His appearing are "The dead in Christ". And as Rev 20 points out about these raised in the first resurrection "The second death has no power over them" they are the saved of all ages.

In Christ,

Bob