Will People Be Condemned for Not Believing in Jesus though They’ve Never Heard His Name?

[Alan Gross]

Don't we love these straight answers?

I asked for Yes or No. Any gyrations are yours.

I don't remember anything about that.

 

[Alan Gross]

You

You

your

Obviously there was a screw up. I've been away or would have answered sooner.

What the devil did with this is get me confused thinking your "you" was talking to me.

The way he did it was, you must be talking to someone I have on ignore.......

I didn't know.

The ignore button is usually SOOO wonderful and useful

It got us crossways for no reason though. I am truly sorry about that.

I thought we were done!(?)!! If you were saying that I don't know the Bible.

Hey, I've almost began to scratch the dirt on the outside of that thing, as far as the depth of revelation from God that in it!! So, that tells you I know there is such a thing as a Bible, anyway!!?! Barely

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Yours is a question with a statement, which is why one cannot answer yes or no.
Your question is:
"Does preaching the gospel to someone who has never heard it before put them in danger of eternal damnation?"

Answer: No. They were already damned regardless of hearing the gospel or not.
Preaching the gospel gives them an opportunity to have hope of reconciliation should they believe. Should they not believe they remain in their previous state of damnation.

Then you make a statement: "a danger in which they were not before"

Here I disagree with your statement. They were damned before they ever heard. The danger was the exact same, but they were just ignorant of the danger.

the word, “ignorant” is appropriate here, in more ways than one

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

So, you're making a stink over this:



Remember Pharoah? God hardened his heart, made him INABLE to comply to Moses' demand, and smote him and his people for not complying. You must not know your Bible very well because this is par for course.

17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, For this very purpose did I raise thee up, that I might show in thee my power, and that my name might be published abroad in all the earth.
18 So then he hath mercy on whom he will, and whom he will be hardeneth.
19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he still find fault? For who withstandeth his will?
20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why didst thou make me thus? Ro 9

You just can't accept God's Sovereignty, thus your continual railing against Him.

Ohhh, that’s just not fair!

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

...no he isn't, it's the same old complaints against God's Sovereign Grace: "Is there unrighteousness with God?". "Why doth he still find fault?"


You call my brevity of scripture simplistic, I consider your wordy 'explanations' bloviation.

WOW…. Don’t candy coat it KY, tell us what your really thinking (you Calvinist you) ​

 

[MB]

I will continue to ask these questions.

Yes or No: Does preaching the gospel to someone who has never heard it before put them in danger of eternal damnation, a danger in which they were not before?

No! Yet it does give them a possibility of Salvation if they will only believe.
Act 16:30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
Act 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
MB
.

 

[DaveXR650]

I will continue to ask these questions.

Yes or No: Does preaching the gospel to someone who has never heard it before put them in danger of eternal damnation, a danger in which they were not before?

I think that is a serious question and deserves an attempt at answering. From a Calvinist standpoint, a person who has never heard the gospel is responsible for their own sin regardless. The first two chapters of Romans explain that. Non-Calvinist Baptists also believe that. I have seen Baptist missionaries weep because they were unable to learn a native language well enough to share the gospel with an elderly person in a village before they died. So no, people are already in danger of eternal damnation even if they have never heard the gospel.

However; if you read Calvinists literature, like Owen for example, he said that the height of sin and insult to God is to refuse the gospel after hearing it. He said even fallen angels have not done such a thing because no redemption is offered to them. He believed such as hear and refuse the gospel are far worse off than those who never heard. (But he did not say those who never heard were not lost.) It is very common in Baptist and reformed Baptists circles, to believe that greater light and knowledge brings greater punishment for grace refused and trampled upon.

T.F. Torrance, who was a student of Barth, taught that Christ's atonement covered everyone, absolutely. And only those who deliberately and finally rejected Christ would be eternally damned, and this by their own choice. So he left the door open for those who had never heard the gospel although he didn't explain how that worked.

(As a side note, one thing I have never been able to reconcile is the fact that Owen's position does not seem to mesh well with the Calvinist idea that the non-elect have not been died for and the proposals of the gospel have nothing to do with them. I know that Owen believed strongly in the sovereignty of God as well as the true responsibility of man as well as the true and actual "offer" and "invitation" of the gospel to all men who hear it. Make of it what you will I guess but one thing I also know is that Owen believed that some of these things cannot be resolved in our human minds and must be taken on faith from the scripture. One of his main arguments was that failure to do this will set you on a path eventually to Socinianism and apostacy.)

 

[Alan Gross]

the word, “ignorant” is appropriate here, in more ways than one

Well....

 

[Alan Gross]

I asked for Yes or No.

You must have some posting or thread or rule somewhere that indicates we have some obligation to answer your questions, yes or no.

I don't see any. U?

Yes or No: Does preaching the gospel to someone who has never heard it before put them in danger of eternal damnation, a danger in which they were not before?

The convolutions in your questions are either redundant or intricately folded, twisted, coiled.

Does preaching the power of God unto salvation to someone who is lost, spiritually blind and dead in their sins and in danger of eternal damnation, put their lost, spiritually blind and dead soul that is already condemned and in danger of eternal damnation, in a danger of eternal damnation that they were not before?

No.

No! Yet it does give them a possibility of Salvation if they will only believe.

Preaching the Gospel gives them the possibility of salvation, when they would then be seen to have a desire to turn from their SIN, to FAITH in the GOSPEL of zJesus' death, for SIN, burial of SIN, and the power and victory of Eternal Life over death and SIN, in Jesus' resurrection and an new understanding and taste for Spiritual things.

There are multitude of false ways of salvation that do not deal with the reality of man's SIN against a Holy God.

Act 16:30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?

This jailer was in an environment dripping and saturated with the blood of Jesus and the Gospel, if you'll look at Acts 16.

Do you think Paul and Silas just played Pinochle with him?

Act 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Conviction of the jailer's soul is why he asked.

Repentance is always tied hand in hand with Believing. "Repentance and Faith" are not always named and spelled out together and are not here, nor do they have to be.

They are implied to be together.

The Lord indicates the One Who Accomplished Lordship there, just recently, which is the message of the Gospel.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Well....

Well what?? You need to be more direct in your questions.

 

[Alan Gross]

Well what?? You need to be more direct in your questions.

Right.

 

[percho]

I will continue to ask these questions.

Yes or No: Does preaching the gospel to someone who has never heard it before put them in danger of eternal damnation, a danger in which they were not before?

I would say no.

One, is born of flesh and in order for one to see, enter, or inherit the kingdom of God that one must needs, be born of spirit?

Preaching the gospel is the explanation of the above. The power of God unto salvation.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I would say no.

One, is born of flesh and in order for one to see, enter, or inherit the kingdom of God that one must needs, be born of spirit?

Preaching the gospel is the explanation of the above. The power of God unto salvation.

Agreed as per scripture.

 

[Arthur King]

Romans 1 teaches us that the whole world is condemned for rejecting God’s revelation of Himself found in creation (general revelation).

So, yes, those who never hear the gospel are condemned.

But rather than let that “bother” you, perhaps focus on the miracle of God’s mercy that He does not leave all of humanity to perish in their sin and rebellion.

God, in His mercy, has chosen some for salvation. According to 1 Corinthians 1, God chose the foolishness of the message preached, Christ and Him crucified, to save those that believe.

Praise God for His love and mercy.

peace to you

All people have the opportunity to be saved.

God desires that all people be saved (1 Timothy 2:4, 2 Peter 3:9), and He has provided sufficient means for that goal to be achieved. We evangelize, not because God needs us (He doesn't) but because our evangelism is how He wants to be glorified in us and it increases our eternal rewards.

Acts 14

In the generations gone by He permitted all the nations to go their own ways; 17 and yet He did not leave Himself without witness, in that He did good and gave you rains from heaven and fruitful seasons, satisfying your hearts with food and gladness.”

Acts 17

He made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth, having determined their appointed times and the boundaries of their habitation, 27 that they would seek God, if perhaps they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us; 28 for in Him we live and move and exist, as even some of your own poets have said, ‘For we also are His children.’


Romans 10 (quoting Psalm 19)

8 But I say, surely they have never heard, have they? Indeed they have;

“Their voice has gone out into all the earth,
And their words to the ends of the world.”


Romans 2

12 For all who have sinned without the Law will also perish without the Law, and all who have sinned under the Law will be judged by the Law; 13 for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified. 14 For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, 15 in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them, 16 on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus.

 

[canadyjd]

All people have the opportunity to be saved.

God desires that all people be saved (1 Timothy 2:4, 2 Peter 3:9), and He has provided sufficient means for that goal to be achieved…...

All people have the opportunity to come into a right relationship with God through the revelation of Himself in creation. This is “general revelation” Every single person in the planet has rejected this opportunity and stand condemned.

It is clear from history that millions (probably billions) of people will live and die having never heard the name of Jesus or the gospel.

So, unless you are saying there is another way to come into a right relationship with God without Jesus, clear heresy, the your statement that God provides “sufficient means” to accomplish the goal of every one being “saved” is clearly not supported by reality.

peace to you

 

[Arthur King]

All people have the opportunity to come into a right relationship with God through the revelation of Himself in creation. This is “general revelation” Every single person in the planet has rejected this opportunity and stand condemned.

It is clear from history that millions (probably billions) of people will live and die having never heard the name of Jesus or the gospel.

So, unless you are saying there is another way to come into a right relationship with God without Jesus, clear heresy, the your statement that God provides “sufficient means” to accomplish the goal of every one being “saved” is clearly not supported by reality.

peace to you

Salvation is only through Jesus. But I am not going to put restrictions on how Jesus saves people, and I am certainly not going to say that Jesus needs ME to save people.

Again, all people have the opportunity to be saved through Jesus. God desires for all human beings to be saved, and He has provided sufficient means that this goal be accomplished. If any are not saved, it is because they reject God's provision of salvation by their own agency.

 

[MB]

You must have some posting or thread or rule somewhere that indicates we have some obligation to answer your questions, yes or no.

I don't see any. U?

Yes or No: Does preaching the gospel to someone who has never heard it before put them in danger of eternal damnation, a danger in which they were not before?

The convolutions in your questions are either redundant or intricately folded, twisted, coiled.

Does preaching the power of God unto salvation to someone who is lost, spiritually blind and dead in their sins and in danger of eternal damnation, put their lost, spiritually blind and dead soul that is already condemned and in danger of eternal damnation, in a danger of eternal damnation that they were not before?

No.

Personally. I do not believe that man is unable to hear and respond to the gospel. I was drawn to the hearing of it, I was drawn to Christ by hearing it. It is the gospel of our salvation. It's the whole reason for the drawing of men. God Him Self is there to draw them. The souls of men are not dead in the sense of unresponsive. Death is merely the separation from God. When we are regenerated our spirit becomes alive to God.
Peter preached to 5000 people and they were saved in part because of his preaching. Why else would men preach? If not to convince men of the truth of Christ. Nothing is more important than men hear and believe. It was Gods Plan from the beginning..

Preaching the Gospel gives them the possibility of salvation, when they would then be seen to have a desire to turn from their SIN, to FAITH in the GOSPEL of zJesus' death, for SIN, burial of SIN, and the power and victory of Eternal Life over death and SIN, in Jesus' resurrection and an new understanding and taste for Spiritual things.

There are multitude of false ways of salvation that do not deal with the reality of man's SIN against a Holy God.

The sin of men is the destruction that sends men to hell . No repentance no forgiveness. No Salvation.

This jailer was in an environment dripping and saturated with the blood of Jesus and the Gospel, if you'll look at Acts 16.


Do you think Paul and Silas just played Pinochle with him?



Conviction of the jailer's soul is why he asked.

Repentance is always tied hand in hand with Believing. "Repentance and Faith" are not always named and spelled out together and are not here, nor do they have to be.

They are implied to be together.

The Lord indicates the One Who Accomplished Lordship there, just recently, which is the message of the Gospel.

Repentance is turning to Christ. Confessing our sins is not repentance and yes it is necessary to confess our sins. It is what conviction does. It causes.
men to confess
MB

 

[taisto]

Personally. I do not believe that man is unable to hear and respond to the gospel. I was drawn to the hearing of it, I was drawn to Christ by hearing it.

The Bible tells us that God drew us to Jesus and Jesus spoke into us new life. Therefore, we heard the gospel and responded in faith.

It is the gospel of our salvation. It's the whole reason for the drawing of men. God Him Self is there to draw them.

Indeed God draws all whom He has given to Jesus. God chooses who is drawn and precisely because God draws them, they hear the word of Jesus and believe.

Bunyan's "Pilgrims Progress" is so very good in showing us what happens to men who attempt to go to God on their own terms. The outcome is eternal damnation. There is no other way that a person can be saved except that the Father draws them to Christ and Christ speaks life into them.

The souls of men are not dead in the sense of unresponsive. Death is merely the separation from God. When we are regenerated our spirit becomes alive to God.

The souls of men are in open rebellion to God. Without God choosing to draw them and Jesus speaking life into them, they will forever remain in open rebellion. "How can anyone be saved? With man it is impossible, but with God, all things are possible."

Death is an uncrossable chasm that separates us from God. We cannot cross it until God regenerates us and gives us the bridge to cross.

 

[Silverhair]

The Bible tells us that God drew us to Jesus and Jesus spoke into us new life. Therefore, we heard the gospel and responded in faith.


Indeed God draws all whom He has given to Jesus. God chooses who is drawn and precisely because God draws them, they hear the word of Jesus and believe.

Bunyan's "Pilgrims Progress" is so very good in showing us what happens to men who attempt to go to God on their own terms. The outcome is eternal damnation. There is no other way that a person can be saved except that the Father draws them to Christ and Christ speaks life into them.


The souls of men are in open rebellion to God. Without God choosing to draw them and Jesus speaking life into them, they will forever remain in open rebellion. "How can anyone be saved? With man it is impossible, but with God, all things are possible."

Death is an uncrossable chasm that separates us from God. We cannot cross it until God regenerates us and gives us the bridge to cross.

Just a couple of comments on your post @taisto

First you are correct people have to hear the gospel before they can respond in faith to the message of salvation.
Rom 1:16 I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes,

But where you error is in when you then say that God only draws certain people but that goes against these verses:
1Ti 2:3 This is good and pleasing in the sight of God our Savior,
1Ti 2:4 who wants everyone to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Joh 12:32 And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw everyone to Myself.”

Joh 3:17 "For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him.

That is the thing God does draw all men. Now does that mean that all will accept Him not but they all have the ability to do so.

Once we have passed from this life our future is cased in stone. Prior to that time even those dead in sin can turn and trust in God for their salvation. It sees you are reading your calvinist determinism into the text of scripture.
Rom 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;
The Holy Spirit through Paul says that people have a choice.

Bunyan's "Pilgrims Progress" is so very good in showing us what happens to men who attempt to go to God on their own terms. But what you seem to have overlooked is that it also shows us the Christian had to make a number of choices on his journey. He had to choose to continue the journey more than once.

You say that man is in open rebellion to God and I agree, but you then take that to mean that it is impossible for them to trust in God for salvation. But did they really have the chance to trust in God, NO. Not according to what you have said here:
"Without God choosing to draw them and Jesus speaking life into them, they will forever remain in open rebellion." So they have the best excuse possible when they stand before God at judgement. "how could I believe, you did not choose me" That is a major flaw in your theology. Good thing the bible does not agree with your theology.

 

[taisto]

Just a couple of comments on your post @taisto

First you are correct people have to hear the gospel before they can respond in faith to the message of salvation.
Rom 1:16 I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes,

But where you error is in when you then say that God only draws certain people but that goes against these verses:
1Ti 2:3 This is good and pleasing in the sight of God our Savior,
1Ti 2:4 who wants everyone to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Joh 12:32 And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw everyone to Myself.”

Joh 3:17 "For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him.

That is the thing God does draw all men. Now does that mean that all will accept Him not but they all have the ability to do so.

Once we have passed from this life our future is cased in stone. Prior to that time even those dead in sin can turn and trust in God for their salvation. It sees you are reading your calvinist determinism into the text of scripture.
Rom 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;
The Holy Spirit through Paul says that people have a choice.

Bunyan's "Pilgrims Progress" is so very good in showing us what happens to men who attempt to go to God on their own terms. But what you seem to have overlooked is that it also shows us the Christian had to make a number of choices on his journey. He had to choose to continue the journey more than once.

You say that man is in open rebellion to God and I agree, but you then take that to mean that it is impossible for them to trust in God for salvation. But did they really have the chance to trust in God, NO. Not according to what you have said here:
"Without God choosing to draw them and Jesus speaking life into them, they will forever remain in open rebellion." So they have the best excuse possible when they stand before God at judgement. "how could I believe, you did not choose me" That is a major flaw in your theology. Good thing the bible does not agree with your theology.

I have dealt with all your Bible verses. It's clear you don't understand what God 8s telling in scripture.
Read and see that God draws each person He has given to Jesus. When they are drawn, they also believe. Those not drawn, don't believe.

But you haven’t believed in me even though you have seen me. However, those the Father has given me will come to me, and I will never reject them.

But Jesus replied, “Stop complaining about what I said. For no one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them to me, and at the last day I will raise them up. As it is written in the Scriptures, ‘They will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who listens to the Father and learns from him comes to me. (Not that anyone has ever seen the Father; only I, who was sent from God, have seen him.) “I tell you the truth, anyone who believes has eternal life.
(John 6:36-37;43-47)