Will the Board Bushies ever admit Iraq is a mess?

[SpiritualMadMan]

PJ...

Unfortunately the documents seem to indiocate otherwise...

Greed & Hatred for the US has made some strange bed-fellows...

France, Germany, Russia...

Iraq and Al Queda...

That high level Iraqi Party Officials met with high level Al Queda leaders was not challenged by the 9-11 report. In fact it was accepted as fact...

The OFF (Oil For Food) program is coming out in the light more and more and the depth of the back stabbing, greed, compromise and corruption of these 'stalwart' allies and the UN General Assembly is already staggering...

More to come...

Bush didn't kill our boys...

The UN did! with help from France, Germany and Russia.

 

[Pennsylvania Jim]

Wow, France, Germany, and Russia are killing our troops. Quite a claim.

I never have liked the French too much. But they acted in their nation's best interest by staying clear of the Iraq mess. I wish we had politicians who worked on our best interests. Gotta hand it to the French on that point.

 

[jimbob]

It is not a mess...it is a war zone.
Those crazies have declared jihad on the great satan...umm, that would be us. They want to kill you and me. I would rather the killing happen over there if it is going to happen at all.

Those countries that you mention:
Iraq, Iran, Syria...etc.... were created by the Brits as part of their empire. The people are united by heritage and religion across national boundaries. We should ignore the boundaries too.

Ladyeagle you claim:

"Certain people in this administration have made money off of this war. "

Who ? How ?
Where did you come by this information ?
Have you verified that it is accurate ?

 

[Pennsylvania Jim]

Really? I thought it was Saudi Shiites who attacked us. You know, Shiites, like we're turning Iraq over to.

 

[jimbob]

My point is that whether they are from Saudi/Syria/Iraq/Iran does not matter.
Those who are following this radical form of Islam are terrorists no matter what passport they have.

 

[Pennsylvania Jim]

Yep, I agree. That's why I don't think the present policy of removing Hussein, who kept them under control, and putting them in power, is very smart. Not to mention the poor 1000+ soldiers who have died doing it.

 

[church mouse guy]

Even Indiana Senator Lugar has complained about the war. The issue is on everyone's minds. It is better to fight the terrorists in Iraq than in Nashville, TN. Imagine what Nashville would be like if it were like Baghdad now.

What we are all really waiting on is not the BB Bush supporters to admit the war is a mess, which few of us have any direct knowledge--one time in the Pacific during World War II the USA lost a thousand marines in one day--but we are waiting for the Constitution Party righties to admit that Peroutka is wrong when he says the war in Iraq is illegal. But then the righties don't care. They are against the war and the troops are cannon fodder to the righties.

 

[Pennsylvania Jim]

Liar.

 

[Pennsylvania Jim]

CMG,

I literally at times sit down and weep for our soldiers in Iraq. The horror of what they are going through is nothing I would want to see. I have personal friends who have served there. THAT is why I oppose what I consider an unnecessary and ill-advised war in Iraq.

My father was a WWII veteran. Two of my brothers are Vietnam era veterans. One came home from USMC service in Viet Nam with the cancerous poison of Agent Orange in his body. I visit his grave from time to time.

To have you make cynical, unfounded statements like you did in your above post is more than I will sit down and take without comment.

 

[The Galatian]

Lady Eagle says..

Galatian even chided me on that one, if I remember.

Yeah, and I was wrong. My thought was that not even Bush would be dumb enough to just leave the borders open for the enemy to slip in and out.

You were right. He is.

 

[Aaron]

Islam is not suited to a republican form of government, and it is a futile attempt to build such a society in an Islamic state.

Bush's efforts in Iraq, though honorable, will fail.

 

[The Galatian]

To have you make cynical, unfounded statements like you did in your above post is more than I will sit down and take without comment.

I can understand your anger, Jim. And you certainly have a right to be outraged.

However, I think mouse is less mean than just a diehard GOPist. If Kerry had been nominated by the Republican wing of the party, mouse would be singing his praises.

 

[LadyEagle]

Ladyeagle you claim:

"Certain people in this administration have made money off of this war. "

Who ? How ?
Where did you come by this information ?
Have you verified that it is accurate ?

TOP 5 DEFENSE CONTRACTORS 2002
http://www.dior.whs.mil/peidhome/procstat/p01/fy2002/top100.htm

Lockheed Martin
Boeing
Northrop
Raytheon
General Dynamics

(Lynne Cheney on Board of Directors Lockheed Martin thru 2001)

TOP 5 2004 -
2004 Company Revenue
Northrop Grumman Corp. $3,556,118,000
Lockheed Martin Corp. $2,654,089,000
Boeing Co. $2,468,121,000
Raytheon Co. $2,285,953,000
General Dynamics Corp. $2,136,292,000

Source: http://www.washingtontechnology.com/top-100/2004/defense_revenue.html

(I listed two different years to show you that they may switch places but have been in the top five consistently).

THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION
Corporate Connections
_______________________
Charts:

President Bush's Cabinet
President Bush's Advisors
_______________________

Comedian Jon Stewart once joked that watching President George W. Bush pick his White House staff was like watching "the old band get back together." It’s true that many of Bush’s choices for his incoming cabinet and top White House posts come from former Republican administrations, going all the way back to Gerald Ford. But what’s notable about this administration is not only the bona fide government credentials that the staff sports—it’s also the corporate connections they bring into the White House.

http://www.opensecrets.org/bush/cabinet.asp##1

(Open Secrets is a watch dog group on politicians of both parties.)

Donald Rumsfeld

http://www.opensecrets.org/bush/cabinet/cabinet.rumsfeld.asp

Colin Powell

http://www.opensecrets.org/bush/cabinet/cabinet.powell.asp

The big homeland security prize on the horizon this year is the U.S. Visitor and Immigrant Status Indicator Technology System, known as U.S. Visit.

Computer Sciences Corp., which is No. 3, Accenture Ltd., which is No. 24, and Lockheed Martin are leading teams chasing the contract, which could be worth $10 billion, to build a system to monitor foreign nationals entering and exiting the United States.

The teams read like a who's who of Top 100 companies. CSC's team includes Northrop Grumman; EDS Corp. (No. 8), Anteon International Corp. (No. 19), General Dynamics Corp. (No. 6), Bechtel Corp. (No. 74), Arinc Inc. (No. 30), Cubic Corp. (No. 71), and Motorola Inc. (No. 21).

This year's list also highlights the continuing importance of the role that mergers and acquisitions play in the federal market. URS Corp. of San Francisco made its debut on the Top 100 at No. 29 thanks to its acquisition of EG&G Technical Services Inc. from the Carlyle Group.

Secretive Carlyle plans
by Tina-Marie O'Neill, Business Post, Dublin, Ireland, 2 June 2002


The Carlyle Group, termed "one of the most powerful, well-connected and secretive companies in the world", plans to seek up to acquisitions.

The group also suspended a planned initial public offering of its United States Marine Repair subsidiary last week, deciding to sell the ship-repair company to United Defense Industries instead. The Carlyle Group owns a 49 per cent stake in United Defense.

Not much is known about the Carlyle Group, but its list of members and associates includes former British prime minister John Major, former US president George Bush Snr, former US secretary of defence Frank Carlucci and former US secretary of state James Baker III.

A number of its high profile clients include George Soros, Prince Alwalled bin Talal bin Abdul Aziz Alsaud of Saudi Arabia and, ironically, estranged members of Osama bin Laden's family. The bin Laden family liquidated their holdings in the company last October.

The Washington based private investment firm was founded in 1987 by David Rubenstein, a former aide in the Carter administration, and William Conway Junior, former chief financial officer of MCI Communications. They met in New York's Carlyle Hotel to form the company.

The company took off in 1989 when Carlucci was brought on board. Less than three years later, Carlyle bought up ailing defence contractors Harsco, BDM International and LTV, turned them around and sold them on to TRW, Boeing and Lockheed Martin, for large profits.

Source

Another Carlyle article

My disgust is bipartisan:

Senate Minority Leader Tom Daschle's wife, Linda:

The landmines in Linda Daschle's professional portfolio will make Hillary Clinton's pork futures and law-firm billings look like mousetraps. For instance, among Linda Daschle's clients is American Airlines, which has had six fatal crashes since 1994 (not even including the World Trade Center flights). The airline has incurred thousands of dollars in federal fines for a host of safety violations, and its employees have been caught in embarrassing drug smuggling stings. Even as its planes have crashed, American has lobbied for years to water down safety and security regulations that might have helped foil the World Trade Center attacks. Yet thanks in part to lobbying efforts by Daschle---and support from her husband---American Airlines got a free pass in the recent airline bailout bill, escaping most legal liability for the hijackings and getting $583 million in cash grants---taxpayer money it will never have to repay.

Washington monthly

Sadly, most people don't care. They just look at the campaign rhetoric and promises and don't care to delve into the backgrounds and financial entanglements (which are like corn roots) in Washington, DC. It's a club of elitists, and all the major players of both parties are strategically connected to each other through their portfolios behind closed doors - and palms are greased, backs are slapped and whatever is put out for public consumption is just that. The American people really don't know the truth, and the few who find out snippets here and there are scoffed at. The media doesn't expose anyone. You'd have thought the Kerry crowd would have been all over the Bush/bin Laden/Carlyle connection, but they haven't been. There is only one reason that could be - they have their own skeletons and financial entanglements. All of the fodder about a war that happened 30 some years ago is just a distraction from the real issues and from what is really taking place behind the scenes. Of course, the few of us who bother to dig or bring any of it up, are considered conspiracy theorists or way out.

Pick a name in the Presidential cabinet and pick one of the top five defense contractors and google. Google on the Trilateral Commission and Council of Foreign Relations. If you really want to dig & find out truth, it's all out there on the web finally. Some of us have known about some of this stuff for decades, before there was an Internet. Now it's easy to dig with Google.

Believe it or not, some people on this board think all of this is fine - it's called capitalism, they say.

But I seriously doubt this arrangement of elected officials and their appointees making domestic and foreign policy that creates personal wealth for themselves or their families from shares they own or personal interests they have in a corporation that is paid by tax payer money through government contracts was the kind of representative government our founding fathers had in mind.

[ September 20, 2004, 11:19 PM: Message edited by: LadyEagle ]

 

[Helen]

I scanned the thread quickly. Yes, of course Iraq is a mess. It was a mess before. It will continue to be a mess.

Would Kerry have done better? Who's to know? Before, it took two Jews to get three opinions. Now it only takes Kerry...

 

[Bro. Curtis]

 

[Rooster]

Originally posted by LadyEagle:


I would like to know in what ways other than possible intelligence gathering, the war in Afghanistan or Iraq has profitted the American people with the exception of the very rich.

>
>NUTCRY??
>
> I am not condoning what happened to the Iraqi
>prisoners...however, I think it is vitally important
>that we have these matters in proper perspective...
>
> * Saddam had Iraqi men, women and children put to
>death in human meat grinders on a daily basis...>
> *Saddam had people thrown off of 3 - 4 story
>buildings, while their relatives were forced to
>watch...>
> * Saddam had people's tongues cut out, limbs
>chopped of, and even beheaded, while their families
>were forced to watch...>
> * Saddam's sons, as well as other Administrators
>and military personnel raped and sodomized Iraqi
>girls, some as young as 8 years old, on a daily
>basis...>
> * Saddam's regime indiscriminately put to death
>millions of Iraqi citizens on a daily basis, during
>the term of his brutal dictatorship, as evidenced
>by the mass graves recently uncovered in various parts
>of Iraq...>
> * Terrorists recently exploded several car bombs
>in Baghdad, killing 17 innocent Iraqi children and
>several dozen innocent Iraqi citizens...
>
>The above is a clip from an email I recieved, it had a little diffrent message, and I modified it to fit the responce, but if that is not enough reson to go to battle in Iraq, then fighting Nazi Germany, and freeing the Jewish Holocost survivers , probably didn't float your boat either. This war is nessicary on many levels, the most important... to keep nuclear wepons of mass destruction out of terrorist hands, and I couldn't think of anyone better suited as chief in command than President Bush, at least he reads the Bible and Prays to God for guidence, and isn't chasing young interns around the white house trying to have oral sex. Like it or not America is the worlds largest super power (a Power granted by God)and with great power comes great responsibility. Thios war doesn't just bennifit only the rich, but every human being on the earth, that belives in freedom, and wanting to see thier children, and grandchildren grow up.

 

[LadyEagle]

Rooster, how dow this Iraq war profit the American people?

The Iraqi people do not want us in their country. We are "invaders" and "occupiers" to them. They hate us.

 

[Rooster]

Originally posted by Joseph_Botwinick:
So, which generals were you referring to, LE? You know, the ones Bush should have listened to, besides Franks? The only similarity I can find in this war and Vietnam is the predictable belly-aching and seditious (borderline treasonous) speech that has come from the liberal anti-war crowd.

Joseph Botwinick

 

[Rooster]

how did fighting WWII profit the American people? By makeing the whole world a safer place to live, for everyone. If we were not ment to fight this battle then God wouldn't allow it, he would have directed Bush to do something else, but know this, circumstances are not random events, God is a soviern God, and nothing happens on this world if God doesn't allow it to.

 

[Rooster]

Originally posted by LadyEagle:


The Iraqi people do not want us in their country. We are "invaders" and "occupiers" to them. They hate us.

As a Parent of an 12 year old girl, my daughter doesn't want me to go in her room, I am an "invader" of her space, and an "occupier" but that doesn't make it wrong for me to keep her in check. America is not Iraqs parent, but we are the only thing that can protect the innocent non-terrorist citizens of Iraq, those people welcome us with open arms, the only people fighting back are terrorist, and the liberal media, who have agendas of thier own.