During the trib/great trib, how are ppl saved? I talking more specifically about ppl OUTSIDE of Jerusalem. Places such as South, Central, and North America? How about Russia, China, Guam, Fiji and Hawaiian Islands, et al?
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Will there be a "millenium" in which Jesus physically rules this earth?
- Thread starter robycop3
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I believe that all that are saved will be saved by faith.
MB
But how? Seeing that the church has been raptured out and the Spirit’s influence(favor, seeing God is omnipresent, He cannot not be there, but He can withdraw His divine favor{see Ezekiel 8 when the priests thought God had literally deserted them and they were into idolatry}) is gone, how can ppl come to saving faith when all this has happened?
As always without exception, sinners are justified by faith in what God says to them. However, not everyone who is saved are saved by the principle of God's grace. Only sinners who live in this age that we commonly call the church age, are saved by grace through faith. God says to us in this age, after Jesus Christ took away the sin of the world through his sacrifice on the cross and subsequent resurrection from the dead, and while God is imputing no sinners sins to them because of it, that if we would believe his testimony about his Son and trust in his sacrifice that he would give anyone and everyone eternal life.
That will not be true after the rapture of the church because the church will be complete and gone and grace will not be the motivating principle of God in salvation any longer and not just anyone can be saved during the tribulation. Those who take the mark of the beast have sealed their fate and God will not redeem them. Those under the altar with their heads cut off, and awaiting others who soon will be with them, in the Revelation, are those who refused the government of Satan and his man and those who are redeemed during those days will be those who believe the gospel of the kingdom is coming soon in the person of Jesus Christ and who commit themselves to that faith to the point they loved not their lives unto the death.
During the gospel account Jesus Christ and his disciples preached the same gospel for the same amount of time, 3.5 years, the same gospel as will be preached in those those tribulation days and during the days of Jesus those rulers of Israel committed the unpardonable sin, which was failure to embrace the gospel that Jesus preached, and therefore he would not save them ever. That is what he said as the began to teach his disciples of a new season beginning with a new sowing of seed in Matt 13.
Salvation was not available for that generation of Jews in Matt 1-12 who rejected the gospel of the kingdom, having opportunity to receive it.
Matt 12:24 But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, This fellow doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils.
25 And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand:
26 And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand?
27 And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your children cast them out? therefore they shall be your judges.
28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.
29 Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.
30 He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.
31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world (AGE - THE ONE HE WAS IN WHEN THE SPOKE), neither in the world to come.(THE NEXT ONE, THE AGE WE ARE IN NOW AND THE ONE HE DESCRIBED IN MT 13)
33 Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit.
34 O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.
Matt 13:10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables? (They asked this after 3.5 years of preaching, meaning he had not been speaking to them in parables until now)
11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
Salvation for these men was off the table now because it was harvest time and these men would not receive him and his kingdom. They aligned themselves with the devil.
I say these things to show that justification is always by faith in what God says. Faith is evidenced by actions. Step one is hearing God say something to you. Step two is believing what he says to you in your heart. Step 3 is doing what he says for you to do.
There is no justification without those 3 things.
32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
Genesis 18:25
That be far from thee to do after this manner, to slay the righteous with the wicked: and that the righteous should be as the wicked, that be far from thee: Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?
God says an angel will preach the everlasting gospel during the trib, flying through the air.
Revelation 14:6
And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.
9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
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37818
Well-Known Member
That is not true. Since no one merits salvation.
I believe many won't believe the antichrist's explanation as to why millions of people simply vanished, & will realize the rapture had occurred, & will seek Jesus at once. These will become "trib saints", refusing to take the mark of the best, always in peril of their lives, from not being able to do regular business for food, etc, the antichrist's security forces, & the trib itself. Then, there will be the 144K Israelis and the 2 special witnesses.
Grace is not the operative principle of divine dealing in God’s set time for judgement of the whole world and vegence and wrath on the old time enemies of his people Israel! Think about it!
The Messianic Age will be far more then Satan being bound in the sense Amil sees it as being!I'm fine Tony, thanks.
No we have not interacted for a while, and it has become apparent to me that it is this very subject that somehow stands in the way and causes me not to want to interact, as I've really no wish to argue with you about the Bible.
As for the rest of what you stated in your post to me above,
I can see by the tone of your post that you're convinced against the Lord Jesus Christ ruling and reigning someday from Jerusalem, and I can see that we don't understand the Scriptures the same way on this subject... and it's very possible that we probably never will agree on them.
For the record and as in other threads about this topic,
I do not see the Bible teaching "amillennialism" and I never have... and my understanding about the end times is very different than yours seems to be;
That said, I see no reason for either of us to ever speak about it again.
I wish you well, and may God bless you.
Isaiah 66 Messianic age yet to come
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
If all Christians are raptured away, who will preach the gospel to those that are left.
peace to you
37818
Well-Known Member
Revelation 14:6-7, ". . . And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters. . . ."
37818
Well-Known Member
Your ranting is not the word of God.
Back it up with Scripture, with God's word.
They'll have to read a Bible for themselves, or use recordings made before the rapture-until the 144K Israelis are sealed, & the 2 special witnesses begin their ministry.
But how can ppl seek God when God’s divine favor is no longer here? Unless God draws, none will seek Him. Seeing there will be no one here to seek Him, they cannot and will not seek Him.
37818
Well-Known Member
Since the tribulation takes place before the rapture, ppl are saved the same as now. Matthew 24:29-31.
So are you pre-mill, post-trib? Sounds like it. I’m learning about post-mill and im finding much agreement with it, but I’ve much more to learn. Im just trying to wrap my head about this pre-trib rapture thingy. It just doesn’t add up to me, no matter how many times they say it does.
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
JD731 disagrees with you. He believes people are not saved by grace after the rapture. The only way to earn your salvation is to refuse the mark of the beast and get beheaded.
See the 2nd paragraph of very long post #124 for confirmation.
People are not saved after the rapture because the only prophecy left to be fulfilled is the great throne judgment followed by eternity with God.
peace to you
What in the passage and Isaiah 66 makes you think it's talking about the messianic age yet to come. Now when Isaiah wrote Isaiah 66 the messianic age was still to come but what makes you think it hasn't come already
Dave G
Well-Known Member
Amen.
" For I know their works and their thoughts: it shall come, that I will gather all nations and tongues; and they shall come, and see my glory.
19 And I will set a sign among them, and I will send those that escape of them unto the nations, to Tarshish, Pul, and Lud, that draw the bow, to Tubal, and Javan, to the isles afar off, that have not heard my fame, neither have seen my glory; and they shall declare my glory among the Gentiles.
20 And they shall bring all your brethren for an offering unto the Lord out of all nations upon horses, and in chariots, and in litters, and upon mules, and upon swift beasts, to my holy mountain Jerusalem, saith the Lord, as the children of Israel bring an offering in a clean vessel into the house of the Lord.
21 And I will also take of them for priests and for Levites, saith the Lord.
22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the Lord, so shall your seed and your name remain.
23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the Lord.
24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh." ( Isaiah 66:18-24 ).
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