Wine & Alcohol part 37

You need to go back and study the Word of God more to be approved of Him. Jesus is never called the door in Revelation. As a matter of fact, in Revelation He is standing at the door.

 

I cannot believe the lengths some will goto to support a personal decision. Your walk with Jesus is exactly that... yours. Please be obedient to the independent leadership of the Holy Spirit in your life, but do not assume that what is obedience for you is the same for others.

You have certainly been passionate and persuasive in your arguments in this discussion, but as soon as you begin to practice eisegesis, your arguements loose their ability to pursuade. You have the freedom to not consume alcoholic beverages, and to ascribe that to a desire to be holy is good. I stand with you in that pursuit! However, to elevate the simple consumption of alcohol to the level of "sin" is a stretch of the biblical record. In this specific case, it may be sinful for yo uto do so if the Holy Spirit guides you otherwise. For many here, we have not been so led. Each of us must make that choice for ourselves and should be given the freedom to do so without malice from others.

I believe that this discussion has run its course and the mods should consider terminating it as little good can come from further postings.

 

Obedience is Obedience. The Holy Spirit is not going to tell one that he or she cannot drink something that will destroy his or her body and turn around and tell another it is ok to drink and destroy your body. The Holy Spirit is not divided against itself.

I have used scripture to interpret scripture. I have showed where the consumption of alcohol is forbidden. I have yet to see where it is allowed.

Tell me... is God a respector of persons? Will He tell me through the Word of God that any amount of consumption by a believer is sin, and not tell all other believers? I don't believe He would. If He did, that would make Him a wishy-washy God.

His Word emphatically tells us 'Look thou not.' Do not have anything to do with it. Yet, those who lust after it seem to ignore that verse. And those who do not drink and yet say it is ok either have a family member, or a friend that they are afraid of losing fellowship with, or just do not believe God's Holy Word in the matter.

Fermented beverage throughout the Word of God is associated with death and destruction. It is said to be the 'venom of asps'. The venom of asps kills. Just as the alcohol kills. It kills brain cells, it immobilizes normal body functions.

God's Word is true. It states that wine mocks, it states that strong drink rages. It states that the two drinks decieve, and that those who are decieved by it are not wise. When one advocates the drinking of alcohol, one has been deceived by it.

 

What I find interesting is that the statistics posted about traffic deaths due to alcohol did not include wine producing states.

 

Did you miss the command Paul wrote under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit in 1 Timothy 5:23?

“ No longer drink water exclusively, but use a little wine for the sake of your stomach and your frequent ailments.”

 

That was not, neither could it have been an alcoholic wine prescribed to Timothy. Doctors will tell you wine is not good for one with stomach problems.

Paul would not have told Timothy to drink that which mocks, that which deceives, that which is referred to as 'venom of asps.'

 

Cookie-cutter, black/white, I'm right you're wrong... we simply disagree. By the way have you studied the Nazarite Vow or the command to Aaron and his sons BY GOD in Leviticus 10? In those circumstances you will find a different standard for the priests and the people.

No... neither you nor anyone else has nor will you be able to be. You can however read into your chosen texts which is what you have done.

You may need to do an in depth study on the "Look thou not" that you keep referring to. You may find that it implies an unhealthy desire or"lust." I have no fear of communicating anything to believers, but I absolutely never hold those that I believe to be unregenerate to the standard of a Christ-like style of living as they cannot meet the standard. Unregenerate folks are going to live like unregenerate folks, I cannot change them as that is the Lord's business.

In this statement, you have met the standard of suggestion, not an outright forbidding.

 

IMO your statement articulates the need for you to study the science of hermaneutics. You must harmonize your beloved passages that state "venom of asps" and Paul's statement to Timothy.

And yes, a glass of red wine can have medicinal value.

 

I have done an extensive study on the word 'Look' in that passage. Here is the Hebrew word and it's meaning.

H7200 ra'ah (53)
ra'ah raw-aw' a primitive root; to see, literally or figuratively (in numerous applications, direct and implied, transitive, intransitive and causative):--advise self, appear, approve, behold, X certainly, consider, discern, (make to) enjoy, have experience, gaze, take heed, X indeed, X joyfully, lo, look (on, one another, one on another, one upon another, out, up, upon), mark, meet, X be near, perceive, present, provide, regard, (have) respect, (fore-, cause to, let) see(-r, -m, one another), shew (self), X sight of others, (e-)spy, stare, X surely, X think, view, visions.


Do not approve, do not advise self, do not consider, have no experience with, do not appear....

This verse and the word Look alone should show the true seeker for truth that he or she is not to have a thing to do with fermented beverage.

 

Paul would not have told Timothy to drink that which mocks, that which deceives, that which is referred to as 'venom of asps.'[/quote]

That is your opinion. I don't doubt your sincerity. My opinion has led me astray many times. The Bible doesn't.

 

Darrell, it is more than my opinion. It lines up perfectly with the Word of God. Why would Paul, a man who preached Christ prescribe something that would take man's mind off of Christ?

 

Oh c'mon now His Blood...
Let 'em have their fun.
Eat drink and be merry.
:smilewinkgrin:

(I am obviously trying to be sarcastically funny with just a hint of seriousness.)

As with every other thread on this subject, there will be those who absolutely refuse Scriptural wisdom. And they will continue to imbibe in "Demon Rum".

 

I don't know whether to laugh out loud or cry... Demon Rum?!?!?! Who talks like that?

 

When the Scripture is so clear on the subject, there should be no dispute, yet the flesh is weak and ofttimes gives in the its lusts and desires. God's Word is forever settled in Heaven, and the true child of God should be concerned with his or her daily walk and the witness they give others.

Even what we type, if it is not in line with God's Holy Word, could be a stumbling block to those who are weak, and yet many seem to say 'It's my Christian liberty.'

The Bible clearly tells us that woe will come to those who throw stumbling blocks in front of others. I will continue to preach the truth as it is in God's Holy Word.

 

Hard to argue with that, but how do you "remember" Him? With bread and "the pure juice of the fruit of the vine", or that which is has not been made "pure"?

 

Those who know and preach the truth.

 

To get drunk, it takes quite a bit, but not for the beginner. The beginner may believe they are drunk due to "wooziness", probably becoming "giddy", however they usually get sick before they can get drunk. As the body adapts it compensates and can accommodate quite a bit of booze, and a person is able to handle 4 to 8 ounces of wine at a setting (couple of hours) with no ill effects or harm to others. It is just as the Bible tells us. It is given to us to make the heart glad - not drunk.

If people to not wish to believe God knows what makes the heart glad, then it is possible they do not believe other things He tells us. On the other hand, if a person does not think they can handle all the gladness, they will refuse this gift. But those that do not wish to partake in this gift should not condemn those who wish to avail themselves of this "tranquilizer" prescribed by their God.

He is a "caring God". He did not have to do what He did. He loves us. He wants our companionship so much that He became one of us, and died for us. Why did Melchizedek bring bread and wine to Abram? Abram had been in "battle", and needed "refreshing". He knew Abram's heart.

Why did Abigail bring to David the "bread and the wine"? To refresh not only David and his officers, but also His "young men". She knew the way to David's heart. There is only One Gift to offer those that do "battle", and it is "bread and the wine". We battle daily and are to be filled with the Spirit, and not be drunk in wine. But a little wine does wonders for our stomachs sake. We worship in Spirit, but we are still in these bodies that need "refreshing". Those that are drunkards have done battle, but they lost the battle. They are "filled with wine". The Christian in the Spirit wins the battle of the "heart", and God brings to us a gift of our Victory. He remembers us giving the gift of "bread and wine".

Do this in remembrance of me. What did He do that we should remember Him with "bread and wine"? He "won" the battle at the Cross. And we say we know best for no man can handle wine. I will therefore bring you bread, and "grape juice"?

 

the body adapts to the alcohol. interesting. The flesh adapts to sin.

 

So now you are saying that if I don't agree with you on this a non-issue, I neither know the truth nor do I declare it. In your opinion should I resign my pulpit and renounce my ordination?

Scripture also delcares, "Leave the presence of a fool, for there you do not meet words of knowledge." (Pro 14:7)

 

Alcohol in the life of someone who wants to be called a child of God is not a non-issue. David said, 'If I regard iniquity in my heart, the Lord will not hear me.' If one is unwilling to turn from sin, will not hear his or her cry; even a cry for salvation.

Scripture clearly shows we are not to have anything to do with alcohol, nor are we to be in the company of winebibbers. How can one say one is walking with the Lord when one is disobeying His Word?