Wine & Alcohol part 37

[UberSmith]

Yet, More Whine.........

Why is it so hard to accept the idea that alcohol consumption according to conscience is scriptural? The arguments against are mostly emotional and wishful with nothing more than social statistics backing them up. Face it, not everyone who drinks beer, wine or anything else is a drunk and is bent on jumping behind the wheel of a car with the idea that they might kill someone. I suspect from what I have been reading that if it weren't for a list of rules, some on this board wouldn't know what to do with their lives in Christ. I'm also willing to bet that some on this board most likely feel that if those of us who don't mirror their personal convictions, would have a hard time believing us to be true Believers. The fact is I KNOW when I'm crossing the proverbial line because the Holy Spirit tells me so. Therefore, I have no negative convictions about listening to good Jazz in my gas abusing SUV; I have no problems with a good, cold Red Stripe (or three) after a rough week at work; and I certainly don't have an issue drinking a thimble full of REAL wine kneeling at the communion rail every 1st and 3rd Sunday. Am I a sinner? Yup, you bet...but thanks be to Christ I am an atoned for sinner. Am I a "carnal" Christian? Aren't we all? Are you better than me or more sanctified than I because you don't do what I do? God will be the judge of that----after all, you can be as slick as a whistle on the outside but be full of dead men's bones on the inside---God knows. So, you can live your life as you see fit, one that you believe honors God and so will I. I used to be in your shoes 15 years ago ---- Ease up, enjoy your life ---- I believe that Solomon said that we should eat, drink and enjoy the fruit of our labor ("enjoy" doesn't mean be on a continual drunk)--- it means exactly that ENJOY. As far as this topic is concerned, God made the things necessary available to produce wine and beer --- so what if some schmucks muck it up by abusing it? Do you quit eating mashed potato's because some over eat? I know some will try to have my demons exercised, hit me profusely about the head and shoulders with their KJVs and declare me an infidel...thats OK though, I'll toast you! All kidding aside some of you have tried your hardest to use GUILT to verbally beat those who don't hold your convictions into submission because that's all you have ever known --- For your own sake ---- Relax, God's more gracious than you give Him credit for.

M

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

SoulWinningLady,

Whatever their standard is, I am quite sure according to God's Word, God's standard for drunkenness is much lower than that.

 

[whatever]

Nice dodge there. Now, can ANYONE here PLEASE tell me where the line for drunkeness is. Those of you who are FOR drinking in moderation have not once answered at what point do you consider a person drunk. One glass, 2 glasses, 3 glasses. Come on people. Quit the dodging and just answer the question!!!

It's not a dodge. It's not my place to tell you how much you can drink. I realize that it's easier to have someone tell us where we can go and what we can do and who we can do it with, but there are some questions that we each just have to answer for ourselves. Freedom is hard; that's why not everyone wants it.

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

Why is it so hard to accept the idea that alcohol consumption according to conscience is scriptural? The arguments against are mostly emotional and wishful with nothing more than social statistics backing them up. Face it, not everyone who drinks beer, wine or anything else is a drunk and is bent on jumping behind the wheel of a car with the idea that they might kill someone. I suspect from what I have been reading that if it weren't for a list of rules, some on this board wouldn't know what to do with their lives in Christ. I'm also willing to bet that some on this board most likely feel that if those of us who don't mirror their personal convictions, would have a hard time believing us to be true Believers. The fact is I KNOW when I'm crossing the proverbial line because the Holy Spirit tells me so. Therefore, I have no negative convictions about listening to good Jazz in my gas abusing SUV; I have no problems with a good, cold Red Stripe (or three) after a rough week at work; and I certainly don't have an issue drinking a thimble full of REAL wine kneeling at the communion rail every 1st and 3rd Sunday. Am I a sinner? Yup, you bet...but thanks be to Christ I am an atoned for sinner. Am I a "carnal" Christian? Aren't we all? Are you better than me or more sanctified than I because you don't do what I do? God will be the judge of that----after all, you can be as slick as a whistle on the outside but be full of dead men's bones on the inside---God knows. So, you can live your life as you see fit, one that you believe honors God and so will I. I used to be in your shoes 15 years ago ---- Ease up, enjoy your life ---- I believe that Solomon said that we should eat, drink and enjoy the fruit of our labor ("enjoy" doesn't mean be on a continual drunk)--- it means exactly that ENJOY. As far as this topic is concerned, God made the things necessary available to produce wine and beer --- so what if some schmucks muck it up by abusing it? Do you quit eating mashed potato's because some over eat? I know some will try to have my demons exercised, hit me profusely about the head and shoulders with their KJVs and declare me an infidel...thats OK though, I'll toast you! All kidding aside some of you have tried your hardest to use GUILT to verbally beat those who don't hold your convictions into submission because that's all you have ever known --- For your own sake ---- Relax, God's more gracious than you give Him credit for.

M

God is gracious, but God is also just. He calls wine poison of dragons and venom of asps. He says don't have experience with it. He tells us we are to be faithful stewards. How can one be a faithful steward when one is putting poison in his body? For the true christian, the body is the temple of the Holy Ghost; for all others, it is nothing but a stench in God's nostrils.

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

It's not a dodge. It's not my place to tell you how much you can drink. I realize that it's easier to have someone tell us where we can go and what we can do and who we can do it with, but there are some questions that we each just have to answer for ourselves. Freedom is hard; that's why not everyone wants it.

Apparently it is a dodge. You did not answer how many drinks.

 

[whatever]

Apparently it is a dodge. You did not answer how many drinks.

You can drink up to a case of beer, but not American beer because that isn't real beer - it's more like "wine" in the Bible, which is not really wine, unless the Bible is saying something bad about it. Anyway, once you go past a case you are probably not saved any more.

 

[Diggin in da Word]

I had a friend once who drank a case of beer a day and swore up and down he was not drunk. Even though it was evident he was.

That is how alcohol deceives. Even the drunkard does not want to admit at what point he is drunk.

Just goes to show that even a glass of wine or beer can deceive a person into thinking they are not drunk.

 

[UberSmith]

To Much Whine.........

God is gracious, but God is also just. He calls wine poison of dragons and venom of asps. He says don't have experience with it. He tells us we are to be faithful stewards. How can one be a faithful steward when one is putting poison in his body? For the true christian, the body is the temple of the Holy Ghost; for all others, it is nothing but a stench in God's nostrils.

So, if I understand you correctly, you are implying that 1. God judges to your convictions. and 2. Those who don't share your convictions treat their bodies as a stench in God's nostrils? (yawn) That's pretty sweeping, pretty broad --- Lastly, what's God's justice have to do with this topic? Is the Holy Spirit on holiday that he has to appoint a "steward" to use threats to keep the sheep in line? You know, I think thats what bothers some the most; that the Holy Spirit influences and convicts, leaving everyone else out of the loop----- You think everyone else is just trying to get away with something on the sly? All your missing is the Jack Boots my friend.

Cheers,
M

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

No, God judges according to His Word. It just so happens that I agree with His Word

 

[whatever]

I had a friend once who drank a case of beer a day and swore up and down he was not drunk. Even though it was evident he was.

That is how alcohol deceives. Even the drunkard does not want to admit at what point he is drunk.

Just goes to show that even a glass of wine or beer can deceive a person into thinking they are not drunk.

It was probably American beer. Like I said, that doesn't count.

 

[UberSmith]

A Case of American Whine

Anyway, once you go past a case you are probably not saved any more.

Are you serious? I find myself a little light headed after about two and 1/2 imports...thats where I draw the line simply because I don't like the feeling. But to commit yourself by saying that you probably aren't saved because you drink more than a case of beer? Wow...I'm not going to be sarcastic simply because its scriptural and its a weakness for me. What I am going to say though is that you spend way to much time analyzing ---- If you can judge someone from a mere snapshot of their life, you are a much, much better man than I. American beer is much the equivalent of biblical wine huh? So, you are conceding that biblical wine has a measurable alcohol content? Not trying to be a smart Aleck or anything, but, how would you know that? Assertions do not make a fact.

M

 

[gb93433]

That was not, neither could it have been an alcoholic wine prescribed to Timothy. Doctors will tell you wine is not good for one with stomach problems.

Paul would not have told Timothy to drink that which mocks, that which deceives, that which is referred to as 'venom of asps.'

Then why have doctors prescribed wine for that problem? I have a friend who had that prescribed by his doctor for stomach ailments.

Don't they have some Amish folks near where you live? Perhaps you should talk with some of them.

If you study winemaking and the environment grapes were grown in especially at harvest time it would have been nearly impossible to have Welch's but instead had rot or wine.

Hate to tell you but you do not have a clue about growing grapes. My parents were grape growers. So I do have a clue what the weather was like and what it takes to make wine.

 

[Diggin in da Word]

if your friend's doctor prescribed alcohol for stomach problems, your friend's doctor should go back to med school

 

[UberSmith]

American Whine: The Sequel

No, God judges according to His Word. It just so happens that I agree with His Word

WHEW! I'm glad that's settled. Now that everyone who disagrees with you, disagrees with God is bound for a life of________________. (you fill in the blank) Soul Winning Lady: How many drinks does it take to get drunk? Sorta like the Tootsie Pop commercial....That depends on the person....weight, whether or not they are diabetic, whether or not they have eaten before hand...me, I stop at two to two and a half beers because I don't like the light headed feeling. Now, when you use a generalized term like "drunk", do you mean tippsy or sloppy-"sleeping in the front yard" drunk? (Pick the one that gives you the best sanctified response :thumbsup

M

 

[whatever]

Are you serious?

No, not at all. They wanted a number so I gave them a number. My real response was:

It's not my place to tell you how much you can drink. I realize that it's easier to have someone tell us where we can go and what we can do and who we can do it with, but there are some questions that we each just have to answer for ourselves. Freedom is hard; that's why not everyone wants it.

But they still wanted a number. Go figure.

 

[UberSmith]

Whine............

No, not at all. They wanted a number so I gave them a number. My real response was: But they still wanted a number. Go figure.

Good Response---Freedom IS a rough thing...For some, freedom is a straightjacket.

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

For some, Freedom in Christ is not a freedom to sin, but a freedom from sin.

Look not thou...

If you are disobeying that verse, you are in sin.

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

In Galatians, the Apostle Paul wrote:

Galatians 5:13 13 For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.

It is amazing how people want to justify their fleshly lust for alcohol by saying 'The Bible says I have liberty in Christ. Yet the above verse clearly and emphatically shows different. Our liberty is not to fulfill the flesh.

 

[Jack Matthews]

I think this is about the longest discussion of whether or not drinking an alcoholic beverage is a sin or not that I have ever seen. It isn't much of a discussion, however, as there seems to be one board member who is using the thread as an attempt to declare their own reasoning as being the only accurate interpretation of the scripture.

I'm learning a lot about the politics of Baptistboard. Some threads, especially those where someone might be expressing an idea or thought that is deemed inconsistent with a particular view held by the most literalistic Baptists among us get shut down, while others, where a literalist dominates, go on and on and on.

 

[Diggin in da Word]

Just because you disagree with the Word of God on alcohol you gotta complain about the length of the thread? Wow.

If you don't like the length of the thread, why are you posting in it and making it longer?