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Wine As A Beverage

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steaver

steaver

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annsni said:
I HAVE partaken of it. For years. We only stopped drinking any alcohol when we had a teen move into our home about 10 years ago. She was a very troubled young woman and we didn't want her to have any access to alcohol since she was depressive, on tons of medications and self-mutilating. So it all went down the drain. That young woman led us into ministry with the college students so we continued to not partake but we do have alcohol in our home for cooking. I just made mussels steamed in wine the other day and they were DELICIOUS!!!

But to say that I have not partaken in the wonderful blessing of the fruit of the vine, you are mistaken. I just choose to obey God and not get drunk.
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Ann, if you have never been "merry" on alcohol then you have NOT partaken of anything more than a fruit of the vine.
 
H

Heavenly Pilgrim

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Jaigner: But asserting that those of us who consume or are okay with responsible consumption are dishonest in our interpretation of scripture is plain misguided and narrow.
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HP: I simply was making a remark that it is easy to find justification for almost any action, especially if the will has its desire set on something. Sin is deceptive and so is alcohol. So you feel you are partaking with 'responsible consumption.' (whatever that is) Can you say you have never drank more than you intended? Can you say it has not on occasion deceived you? For one, it lessens inhibitions. Can you say you have never experienced that or that you have not seen that in others you have been around or drank with? What about your influence on others? You say that you have no children, but what about the children of others? Can you do it to the glory of God? Will you be certain to hear the sound of the trumpet while drinking? Just a few questions to ponder. I for one have seen more than enough of the evil effects of alcohol in my life time and desire absolutely no part of it. Again, alcohol is a deciever just as sin is.
 
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steaver

steaver

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annsni said:
And when I drank, I never felt the affects of the alcohol. Apparently you were a drunk. I was not. One glass of wine over the course of a meal wouldn't make me feel anything other than feeling "yum - that was good".
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You have never been "merry" (drunk). You don't get "merry" on grape juice!

It wasn't the alcohol that made you say "Yum". Alcohol does not add good flavor. You don't understand this topic Ann. Until you experience the effects of alcohol you will not understand this debate.
 
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steaver

steaver

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Heavenly Pilgrim said:
HP: Sin is deceptive and so is alcohol. So you fell you are partaking with 'responsible consumption.' (whatever that is) Can you say you have never drank more than you intended? Can you say it has not on occasion deceived you? For one, it lessens inhibitions. .
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Many times I set out to have just one. After one the drunk is on, however not too intense yet, just enough to have you consider a second. THen the second leads to even less unable to make a right decision and a third, fourth, etc etc.
 
H

Heavenly Pilgrim

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Steaver: Many times I set out to have just one. After one the drunk is on, however not too intense yet, just enough to have you consider a second. THen the second leads to even less unable to make a right decision and a third, fourth, etc etc.
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HP: Precisely. And so goes the story of untold millions deceived by the deceiving substance.
 
A

annsni

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steaver said:
Ann, if you have never been "merry" on alcohol then you have NOT partaken of anything more than a fruit of the vine.
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Yes, which is what we all argue. Teetoatlers scream "abstinence" when there IS another choice. Moderation.

But now you're saying that all the verses in the Bible that speak of wine are talking about overdrinking rather than just having wine? Or is your argument that the verses that speak negatively against alcohol are speaking of it's overuse? THAT is my argument. The verses that speak of it's blessing speak of partaking in moderation if you will not allow your brother to stumble.
 
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annsni

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steaver said:
You have never been "merry" (drunk). You don't get "merry" on grape juice!

It wasn't the alcohol that made you say "Yum". Alcohol does not add good flavor. You don't understand this topic Ann. Until you experience the effects of alcohol you will not understand this debate.
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I have had lots of wine. It DOES add good flavor or else we wouldn't cook with it. Why do you say I will never understand this debate unless I've been drunk? God never got drunk but He wrote about it.....
 
J

jaigner

Active Member
annsni said:
I have had lots of wine. It DOES add good flavor or else we wouldn't cook with it. Why do you say I will never understand this debate unless I've been drunk? God never got drunk but He wrote about it.....
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I can see how an alcoholic could think the taste is bad, but those of us who aren't might still like it.
 
A

adisciplinedlearner

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I agree. To be drunk with the Holy Spirit means to be controlled by the Holy Spirit. To be drunk with alcohol means to be controlled by alcohol. How can we know when we are controlled by alcohol instead of in control of ourselves?
 
A

adisciplinedlearner

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This is the hardest thing about defining drunkenness. We do not know for certain where self control ends and alcohol control begins. This is why some Christians do not drink alcohol at all.
 
A

annsni

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adisciplinedlearner said:
This is the hardest thing about defining drunkenness. We do not know for certain where self control ends and alcohol control begins. This is why some Christians do not drink alcohol at all.
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I really think it will vary with the individual. I don't think we can state "You may have so many units of alcohol but no more." I know of some who cannot have even one drink. I know others who can have two and not be affected. It really depends on biology.
 
Thinkingstuff

Thinkingstuff

Active Member
I think this is an interesting topic. Is biblical drunkeness considered to be as described above? Or what about having a slight Buzz?
 
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