Wine As A Beverage

[Revmitchell]

I don't think they drank wine of what we know it, fruit juice was called wine, I mean Jesus had no sin, and the bible says, "Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and who-soever is deceived thereby is not wise." prov. 20:1
Therefore, I don't think they partied, God in the flesh, was holy, without sin....

Seems obvious doesn't it

 

[annsni]

HP: May God reward you for your efforts and may be many souls won for the Kindgom!!!! On the second thought, you may need a little wine to refresh you for the task ahead.......of the non-alcoholic nature of course.:thumbs:

Seriously. Or maybe just an IV of Starbucks.....

Just purchased a few more things including 25 packages of Chips Ahoy cookies. That will feed the children for ONE day just two cookies each!

 

[annsni]

I don't think they drank wine of what we know it, fruit juice was called wine, I mean Jesus had no sin, and the bible says, "Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and who-soever is deceived thereby is not wise." prov. 20:1
Therefore, I don't think they partied, God in the flesh, was holy, without sin....

Why? Partaking of wine is not sin. There is not one verse in Scripture that says so. Jesus certainly drank wine and the kind of wine that in excess could make one drunk. That is what the culture had. Yes, at times they could have wine that was new and not yet fully fermented. However, that is not the only wine they would have had. Isaiah 25 tells us that God Himself will provide a feast including clearly alcoholic wine. So what does that say?

 

[Jim1999]

Modern Christians will make any excuse to drink alcohol, wine or other drinks. We do not need a biblical verse to avoid what is causing many of the troubles in society, including divorce and other problems.

Cheers,and not the drinking salute,

Jim

 

[Revmitchell]

Modern Christians will make any excuse to drink alcohol, wine or other drinks. We do not need a biblical verse to avoid what is causing many of the troubles in society, including divorce and other problems.

Cheers,and not the drinking salute,

Jim

:thumbs:........

 

[Dr. Walter]

:thumbs:........

Low content fermented alcohol (wine, beer) was a necessity then and now in lands where water and food contamination is a problem.

My son went down to Mexico and ate the local food and drank the local water and got sick as a dog. The local Mexicans told him to drink a little Taquila with their food if he didn't want to become sick.

Drinking low content alcholic beverages with meals is not sin and is common in third world nations. The practice produces a high resistance to becoming drunk unless great quantities or increased alchoholic content is consumed. Drinking with intent to become drunk is sin anywhere at anytime.

When Paul instructs the Romans not to drink "wine" if offends or is a stumbling block to the weak cannot possibly refer to unfermented juice as there has never been sphere of believers offended at juice.

I do not drink socially at all. I don't need the medicinal aide, and I don't think in our society that drinking socially is helpful to our testimony as there is so much abuse in our society. However, I try to be honest with the scriptures regardless of my own preferences.

 

[Mexdeaf]

Low content fermented alcohol (wine, beer) was a necessity then and now in lands where water and food contamination is a problem.

My son went down to Mexico and ate the local food and drank the local water and got sick as a dog. The local Mexicans told him to drink a little Taquila with their food if he didn't want to become sick.

Drinking low content alcholic beverages with meals is not sin and is common in third world nations. The practice produces a high resistance to becoming drunk unless great quantities or increased alchoholic content is consumed. Drinking with intent to become drunk is sin anywhere at anytime.

When Paul instructs the Romans not to drink "wine" if offends or is a stumbling block to the weak cannot possibly refer to unfermented juice as there has never been sphere of believers offended at juice.

I do not drink socially at all. I don't need the medicinal aide, and I don't think in our society that drinking socially is helpful to our testimony as there is so much abuse in our society. However, I try to be honest with the scriptures regardless of my own preferences.

Thank you for your honesty.

 

[Revmitchell]

Low content fermented alcohol (wine, beer) was a necessity then and now in lands where water and food contamination is a problem.

My son went down to Mexico and ate the local food and drank the local water and got sick as a dog. The local Mexicans told him to drink a little Taquila with their food if he didn't want to become sick.

Drinking low content alcholic beverages with meals is not sin and is common in third world nations. The practice produces a high resistance to becoming drunk unless great quantities or increased alchoholic content is consumed. Drinking with intent to become drunk is sin anywhere at anytime.

When Paul instructs the Romans not to drink "wine" if offends or is a stumbling block to the weak cannot possibly refer to unfermented juice as there has never been sphere of believers offended at juice.

I do not drink socially at all. I don't need the medicinal aide, and I don't think in our society that drinking socially is helpful to our testimony as there is so much abuse in our society. However, I try to be honest with the scriptures regardless of my own preferences.

So is it your position that the only reason why it would be an offense was because it was fermented?

 

[Dr. Walter]

So is it your position that the only reason why it would be an offense was because it was fermented?

Paul places this in a context of things neither right nor wrong in themselves. In that context, juice does not offend anyone.

 

[Jim1999]

I will use a story which may or may not be true to demonstrate why we should not drink alcoholic beverages.

It is said that Mr. Spurgeon smoked cigars unil he read an advert on a shop window: "The cigars that Spurgeon smokes sold here." He reportedly quit smoking cigars.

It talks of the message we pass on to society. So, there is nothing unbiblical about having a glass of wine with dinner. Well the observer does not count the glasses drank, but he sees the sign: "The wine the Christian drinks served here."

Oh, instead of water on the pulpit next Sunday, I shall have a glass of wine!

Cheers,

Jim

 

[Revmitchell]

Paul places this in a context of things neither right nor wrong in themselves. In that context, juice does not offend anyone.

I understand but I would appreciate it if you directly answer my question.

 

[Dr. Walter]

I understand but I would appreciate it if you directly answer my question.

As far as we know, this is the first and only letter written by Paul to the churches in Rome. Paul does not provide particular situations or cultural applications. If it were important to his argument he would. Since he did not but only provided a general application, then, I stick with the application he gives. The application he gives does not demand anything other than a brother being offended at someone drinking wine for WHATEVER reason.

On the other hand when writing the Corinthians Paul spells out the specific situation in regard to "eating meat" at the temples - which he condemns and buying that meat and bringing it home to eat which he does not condemn unless someone's else knows where it came from and is offended. If "meat" here means "food" in general then I guess you can INFER it includes whatever is drunk. However, again, Paul does not condemn eating "meat" and whatever that includes except at the temple of false gods. This again would demonstrate drinking wine is neither good or evil in itself, but it is the situation that will determine good or evil.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

DW: Drinking with intent to become drunk is sin anywhere at anytime.

HP: Hmmmm. Let’s try that one out on a law enforcement officer or a judge. Sir, I never intended drinking to get drunk…….:saint:

 

[Revmitchell]

As far as we know, this is the first and only letter written by Paul to the churches in Rome. Paul does not provide particular situations or cultural applications. If it were important to his argument he would. Since he did not but only provided a general application, then, I stick with the application he gives. The application he gives does not demand anything other than a brother being offended at someone drinking wine for WHATEVER reason.

On the other hand when writing the Corinthians Paul spells out the specific situation in regard to "eating meat" at the temples - which he condemns and buying that meat and bringing it home to eat which he does not condemn unless someone's else knows where it came from and is offended. If "meat" here means "food" in general then I guess you can INFER it includes whatever is drunk. However, again, Paul does not condemn eating "meat" and whatever that includes except at the temple of false gods. This again would demonstrate drinking wine is neither good or evil in itself, but it is the situation that will determine good or evil.

Then we should be careful not to hold this passage up as a license to drink fermented wine.

 

[Dr. Walter]

HP: Hmmmm. Let’s try that one out on a law enforcement officer or a judge. Sir, I never intended drinking to get drunk…….:saint:

I was trying it out in the sight of God as it is His word we are discussing. I believe he looks at the intent of the heart as well as the outcome.

 

[Revmitchell]

I was trying it out in the sight of God as it is His word we are discussing. I believe he looks at the intent of the heart as well as the outcome.

So in God's eyes if you did not intend to sin its ok?

 

[Dr. Walter]

Then we should be careful not to hold this passage up as a license to drink fermented wine.

We should be careful not to hold this passage up as a liscense to sin because the obvious application denies that drinking fermented wine is sin EXCEPT when it causes others to stumble.

However, in I Corinthians 9 I believe Paul gives another basis for abstaining from drinking wine or anything that might be a stumbling block for others to hear the gospel from our mouth. Paul says we should be mature enough to give up anything and everything less than moral principel (law under Christ) so that the gospel will not be hindered.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

DW: I was trying it out in the sight of God as it is His word we are discussing. I believe he looks at the intent of the heart as well as the outcome.

HP: The point that I received from your comment was that you might have been implying that if ones intentions were not to get drunk it would not be sin……..but how many times have I heard preachers chide Noah for his drunken stupor?? Who will be the first to say that getting drunk was his intention????

Do not Scriptures teach that strong drink and wine are deceivers? Noah never heard that advice that I know of, but we have. If one knows that to be true and starts down that path by partaking and ends up over indulging, who in their right mind would not find them responsible for their actions, not because they did something in a drunken stupor but because they should have known better than to start down that path.
If one kills another in a drunken stupor, is he innocent because he says he never intended to get drunk? If one kills another after being buzzed on alcohol, is he or she to be found not guilty because they never intended get drunk? Your logic evades me. Besides, was it not you that stated drinking alcoholic beverages was not a sin issue period?????

 

[Dr. Walter]

So in God's eyes if you did not intend to sin its ok?

No! But God does distinguish between willful sin and sins of ignorance. Full intent to sin is more grevious before God as it entails sinning with full knowledge of right and wrong.


Le 4:2 Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, If a soul shall sin through ignorance against any of the
commandments of the LORD concerning things which ought not to be done, and shall do against any of them:

Nu 15:30 But the soul that doeth ought presumptuously, whether he be born in the land, or a stranger, the same reproacheth the LORD; and that soul shall be cut off from among his people.

Joh 9:41 Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth.

Rom. 7:9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

DW: Drinking or not drinking wine as a beverage comes under things that are neither right or wrong in themselves (Romans 14) and so to make this an issue of doctrine is stupid! Paul promotes voluntary abstinance of wine altogether whether it is offensive to you or it is a stumbling block to others.

HP: Here was your original comment. Would you desire to re-phrase it now?