Wine in the first century

[John of Japan]

That is funny. One time my wife gave me cold tea to drink for breakfast because we ran out of apple juice and forgot to tell me. That morning I expected to drink apple juice. The tea looked just like apple drink. When I tasted it I thought it tasted awful and remarked at how terrible it tasted. When she told me it was cold tea it tasted much better.

When I was in Finland I bought an orange colored drink named appelssiini and thinking it strange that their apple drink was colored orange. When I got home I took a sip and then realized it was orange drink much like Crush orange drink.

Lol. I love trying new drinks in countries. :thumbs:

 

[Winman]

On April 25,1979 one of my closest childhood friends was killed in a drunk driving accident. He was 21. Exactly one month later on May 25, 1979 my closest childhood friend was killed in a drunk driving accident. He was 24.

As a musician, I worked in clubs for years. I've seen this many times.

And as unattractive as obese people might be, this is worse.

 

[Luke2427]

You don't like the stats when they go against your own beliefs.
I gave you stats that disproved your beliefs, but you didn't like the conclusions. What did you do. You tried to discredit the source. It doesn't work that way. Stats are stats. You can't so easily dismiss stats. My stats are far more objective than yours since they deal directly with the problem at hand--alcoholism. Yours don't.

You did not give a single stat that even challenged what I have purported on here- not one. What are you talking about?

The fact is that more people die of food abuse diseases than alcohol abuse every year.

That does not mean it is ok to abuse either. It means that this SPECIAL ATTENTION given to the condemnation of alcohol as if it is somehow more deadly or evil than gluttony is terribly misplaced.

I think it is pretty clear that the only people who have this problem are fundamentalists who are stuck in a brief, fleeting period of U.S. History in which prohibtionism was born lasted a short time and died- except among a small group of fundies who hang around and keep the position on life support.

The rest of the world knows better. Christians all over the world for about two thousand years have drunk intoxicating beverages and celebrated them as a gift from the good hands of God- as the Bible teaches they are.

The only significant Christian group to be backwards on this issue (to believe teetotalism to be taught in the Bible) in history came out of the mid 19th to early 20th centuries here in America.

Everyone else has known better.

The Scriptures are clear.

Responsible consumption of alcohol is encouraged in the Word of God, has been practiced by nearly two thousand years of Christians world-wide and ought not be condemned.

The stats are clear. Alcohol abuse is not even as deadly as food abuse.

Your position has no foundation.

 

[gb93433]

The fact is that more people die of food abuse diseases than alcohol abuse every year.

There is an article that lists a few at http://www.livestrong.com/article/442066-diseases-caused-by-eating-too-much-fast-food/

Joint troubles which leads to a lack of productivity and increased health care costs is almost always brought on by obesity and can be controlled through diet and exercise.

How does a person who does not have enough to eat ever come to have a problem with obesity?

 

[Luke2427]

There is an article that lists a few at http://www.livestrong.com/article/442066-diseases-caused-by-eating-too-much-fast-food/

Joint troubles which leads to a lack of productivity and increased health care costs is almost always brought on by obesity and can be controlled through diet and exercise.

How does a person who does not have enough to eat ever come to have a problem with obesity?

Right. And there are hundreds of such studies- if not thousands- that show that food addictions are more detrimental to our society than alcohol abuse.

Almost everybody knows this. Why DHK and a handful of other fundamentalists cannot see it is beyond me.

I confess I used to think the same way about alcohol. But I'll also have to say that had someone shown me clear stats that prove that alcohol abuse is not as deadly in this country as food abuse- I would have accepted those facts and argued for teetotalism from another angle.

I was ignorant in my fundy days- but not stubbornly ignorant.

 

[Luke2427]

On April 25,1979 one of my closest childhood friends was killed in a drunk driving accident. He was 21. Exactly one month later on May 25, 1979 my closest childhood friend was killed in a drunk driving accident. He was 24.

As a musician, I worked in clubs for years. I've seen this many times.

And as unattractive as obese people might be, this is worse.

It really is not.

Millions of people vomit due to food abuse caused stomach disorders and overeating. So that nullifies that picture.

Less than 20 thousand die each year due to drunk driving car accidents compared to more than half a million people who die to due to heart disease, about 70,000 who die due to type II diabetes, and thousands more who die due to other food abuse related causes of death. So that nullifies that picture.

And as for the bloody face- that will heal in a few days. Diabetes will not. you will not recover in a few days from a heart attack. So that nullifies that picture.

 

[annsni]

There is an article that lists a few at http://www.livestrong.com/article/442066-diseases-caused-by-eating-too-much-fast-food/

Joint troubles which leads to a lack of productivity and increased health care costs is almost always brought on by obesity and can be controlled through diet and exercise.

How does a person who does not have enough to eat ever come to have a problem with obesity?

To be honest, it's because junk food is cheaper than healthy food. It's cheaper to feed your family potatoes and fatty meat than to feed them lean chicken and vegetables.

 

[gb93433]

To be honest, it's because junk food is cheaper than healthy food. It's cheaper to feed your family potatoes and fatty meat than to feed them lean chicken and vegetables.

When I go to the store with my wife and look at the shopping carts I often wonder if people know how to cook. I wonder how many of them could make a loaf of bread?

 

[glfredrick]

When I go to the store with my wife and look at the shopping carts I often wonder if people know how to cook. I wonder how many of them could make a loaf of bread?

Other than a "back to the kitchen" movement among some of the youngest demograophic, virtually none that you see in the CENTER AISLES of a grocery store could in fact provide a meal from raw materials, especially if they had to have a stake in producing or procuring them in some manner apart from semi- to fully-processed form.

 

[gb93433]

To be honest, it's because junk food is cheaper than healthy food. It's cheaper to feed your family potatoes and fatty meat than to feed them lean chicken and vegetables.

Just look at the rich and poor and see what they eat. The interesting thing is that for as long as I can remember my grandmother put bacon grease on her pancakes. She lived to be 97.

Chicken and vegetables do not make it in my work. I tried a low fat diet for awhile and was always hungry and out of gas. I talked to a nutritionist and she asked me what kind of work I did. She told me that I needed to eat more fat. So I eat more fat and it works well. I am not hungry and my weight is good.

 

[glfredrick]

Fat is good food and necessary to life.

The current trend that plays that fat eaten makes fat in the body is just plain bad science. But, an excess of anything is as bad as anything else.

 

[webdog]

Would like to hear commentary on how you keep fresh grape juice from fall until spring...in the middle east...without refrigeration.

 

[gb93433]

Would like to hear commentary on how you keep fresh grape juice from fall until spring...in the middle east...without refrigeration.

Raisins and add water later.

 

[DHK]

The stats are clear. Alcohol abuse is not even as deadly as food abuse.

Your position has no foundation.

You need to get off your high horse.
Food abuse? You have got to be kidding!

According to the World Health Organization, hunger is the single gravest threat to the world's public health.[2] The WHO also states that malnutrition is by far the biggest contributor to child mortality, present in half of all cases.[2] Six million children die of hunger every year.[3]Figures on actual starvation are difficult to come by, but according to the FAO, the less severe condition of undernourishment currently affects about 925 million people, or about 14 % of the world population.[4]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starvation

 

[gb93433]

You need to get off your high horse.
Food abuse? You have got to be kidding!

[/SIZE]

How would you explain that over 60% of America is fat?

 

[DHK]

How would you explain that over 60% of America is fat?

Lifestyle--it is their choice.
Food is only one factor.
Exercise is another. Stress is another. Sleep is another.
The total lifestyle of a person contributes to obesity, not simply overeating. Laziness is a big part of it. Failure to be active and exercise. People are not raised on the farm and don't live a rural life-style as much as they once did. The are too sedentary.
In some cases, and I emphasize some, there are genetic causes.

Consumption of food is not the only cause.

 

[glfredrick]

How would you explain that over 60% of America is fat?

But not alcoholic... :smilewinkgrin:

 

[DHK]

But not alcoholic... :smilewinkgrin:

Or to put it another way:
Explain these stats:

According to the World Health Organization, hunger is the single gravest threat to the world's public health.[2] The WHO also states that malnutrition is by far the biggest contributor to child mortality, present in half of all cases.[2] Six million children die of hunger every year.[3]Figures on actual starvation are difficult to come by, but according to the FAO, the less severe condition of undernourishment currently affects about 925 million people, or about 14 % of the world population. [/quote]
Yet in the same nations that have the problems of starvation and malnutrition they still have the problems of alcoholism and drug abuse.

 

[glfredrick]

Or to put it another way:
Explain these stats:

According to the World Health Organization, hunger is the single gravest threat to the world's public health.[2] The WHO also states that malnutrition is by far the biggest contributor to child mortality, present in half of all cases.[2] Six million children die of hunger every year.[3]Figures on actual starvation are difficult to come by, but according to the FAO, the less severe condition of undernourishment currently affects about 925 million people, or about 14 % of the world population. [/quote]
Yet in the same nations that have the problems of starvation and malnutrition they still have the problems of alcoholism and drug abuse.

Alcohol is common to humanity and the worse the conditions imposed on the people the more they prefer to drink their cares away.

Listen, I'm not arguing against the effects of alcohol. I've already self-identified here as a former drunk. I get it.

BUT, you cannot make the Bible say that it is purely anti-alcohol. That doctrine is not found in the pages of Scripture.

You CAN argue (successfully, I think) about avoiding the appearance of evil, but you cannot make A drink a sin, and neither is it listed in ANY of the lists of deadly sins in the Scripture. Gluttony is, however.

 

[gb93433]

Lifestyle--it is their choice.
Food is only one factor.
Exercise is another. Stress is another. Sleep is another.
The total lifestyle of a person contributes to obesity, not simply overeating. Laziness is a big part of it. Failure to be active and exercise. People are not raised on the farm and don't live a rural life-style as much as they once did. The are too sedentary.

Would you not agree that eating too much affects all of those you mentioned?