Wine is fine

You are free to use any words you wish. I personally would feel uncomfortable making a statement like that in light of the verses that directly tie wine to the provision of God.

 

Can you explain how, in light of the verses I listed? Are those verses in your Bible? Do you really believe them, or do you just ignore them because they don't fit your personal opinion? Does God give evil gifts to his children?

 

To all who think drinking is fine.... If I were to see you in a restaurant with a drink in your hand I would only know you drink. I would NOT know that you only have a glass of wine at celebrations or with certain foods... and if I were a non-Christian that you'd been witnessing to.... I would question your devotion to your beliefs. That is enough reason for me to not drink!

Diane

 

Diane </font>[/QUOTE]Hi Diane,

No comments on all that scripture I posted? I realize others would ignore those scriptures, but I was expecting at least you to acknowledge and comment on them. After all, I posted them mostly in response to your comments about what scripture says about wine.

Brian

 

Diane </font>[/QUOTE]If you were a non-Christian vegetarian, and you saw someone eating meat in a restaurant, then you might question their devotion to their beliefs for that reason. Is that enough reason to never eat meat?

 

Diane </font>[/QUOTE]If you were a non-Christian vegetarian, and you saw someone eating meat in a restaurant, then you might question their devotion to their beliefs for that reason. Is that enough reason to never eat meat? </font>[/QUOTE]Rom 14:21 It is good neither to eat meat nor drink wine nor do anything by which your brother stumbles or is offended or is made weak.

1 Cor 8:8-13 "...food does not commend us to God; for neither if we eat are we the better, nor if we do not eat are we the worse. 9 But beware lest somehow this liberty of yours become a stumbling block to those who are weak. 10 For if anyone sees you who have knowledge eating in an idol's temple, will not the conscience of him who is weak be emboldened to eat those things offered to idols? 11 And because of your knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died? 12 But when you thus sin against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, you sin against Christ. 13 Therefore, if food makes my brother stumble, I will never again eat meat, lest I make my brother stumble."

 

It is not a Sin to drink Alcohol. Jesus Christ did it. We have seen that Timothy is instructed to do it for health.

Why are people so keen to attempt to place extra yokes on others?

Colossians 2:16 "So do not let anyone critisize you for what you EAT OR DRINK, or for not celebrating Jewish holidays and feasts or new moons or Sabbaths".

Seems to me that a few people like to critisize others for what they drink in here.

 

So, would you then say that Jesus was providing the sin for the wedding feast? He turned the water to wine and gave for them to drink it. Would Jesus contribute to their sin...or would he have admonished it? Jesus could not have been tempting them because God does not do that. So, why did he do it if, in your view, it is a sin?

 

Interesting that Jesus uses his blood in the New Testament at the last supper comparing it to wine... Why?... What properties does wine have in comparison to the blood!... What is the fruit of the vine?... Grapejuice ... Wine is fine because wine defines the divine or else I would drink grapejuice in communion followed by an unsalted saltine instead of unleavened bread but that brother and sisters is another post!... Don't get me started on feet washing! ... To each his own... Brother Glen

 

</font>[/QUOTE]More properly translated, "Abstain from evil in all its appearances." IMO, it is a misinterpretation to assume it means "Avoid appearing evil." If that's what it meant, Jesus disobeyed when he ate and drank with "sinners".

 

Just as a follow-up, to avoid anyone thinking that it is my personal interpretation that 1 Th 5:22 does not mean that we are to avoid even the false appearances (i.e., what others see) of evil...


NIV

1 Thessalonians 5
22 Avoid every kind of evil.


NKJV

1 Thessalonians 5
22 Abstain from every form of evil.


Young's Literal

1 Thessalonians 5
22 from all appearance of evil abstain ye;


NASB

1 Thessalonians 5
22 abstain from every form of evil.


The Message

1 Thessalonians 5
22 Throw out anything tainted with evil.


Amplified

1 Thessalonians 5
22 Abstain from evil [shrink from it and keep aloof from it] in whatever form or whatever kind it may be.


New Living

1 Thessalonians 5
22 Keep away from every kind of evil.

 

Hi everyone,

Its been a while since I posted anything , but this thread really strikes a bad chord and brings back alot of bad memories. You see, I am a born again, bible believing, God fearing Christian who just happens to be a recovering alcholic....or let me re-phrase that...recovered alcoholic since the day I was saved 10 years ago.
Some people here are saying social drinking is ok, but I am going to tell you all social drinking is ...is an open door for Satan to come in and steal your christian witness and possiby your life as well as that of your family. what is the difference between a little booze ...its good for the stomach, and a little pornography...its good for the sex life. all it boils down to is that if you open a crack in your spiritual armor(Ephe. 6) then Satan will take advantage of it and come into your life like the lion the bible speaks of seeking (and finding) whom he will devour. I almost lost my marriage, my children and my life because of this so-called social drinking. when does social drinking become not so social anymore? Who will you listen to when someone says you are drinking to much?Do you honestly think you will just say "you are right I am drinking to much..time to quit". Its a lie from Satan decieving alot of good people in the church. Please dont take the bible and twist it to fit your own ways. what we think dont matter , its what God thinks that counts. If you believe drinking , smoking pot or doing some kind of drugs is of God, try praying about it before you do it, the answer you get from the Father might just suprise you....and yes drugs, and pot smoking is in the same category as drinking, they are all mind altering drugs. Trust me, I know what Im talking about.
If what I have said here offends some of you , take it to God because I will not apologize for speaking the truth.
And just one more thing, all the baptist churches that I personally know of has in the church bi-laws that we should abstain from the use or purchase of alcoholic beverages...if you dont agree with you church bi-laws mabey you should go catholic or something. what Im saying is , dont do something out of church that you wouldnt do in church. God is there no matter where you are.
may God bless each of you

 

Well, one difference is that the first is in scripture.

Not to belittle your situation, but I don't believe you. I believe you almost lost these precious things because you abused social drinking.

You have sex with your wife in church?

Big Al, I appreciate what you're saying, and I totally respect your position of abstinence. However, and again, scripture repeatedly mentions wine in the context of God's blessing. Those that call for complete abstinence from alcohol are doing so on a purely emotional basis, ignoring dozens of scriptures. By wholesale condemnation of drinking, you imply these scriptures are wrong, and I simply will not accept that. I admire and respect those that abstain because of conscience or past experience or whatever - if your faith will not let you drink in good conscience, you SHOULD abstain or else you will be sinning. But we should not try to thrust our consciences onto other people - that's legalism. Especially when we have to throw out scripture to do it.

God bless,
Brian

 

Brian believe what you want, but what I said is true there are very very few alcoholics that didnt start social drinking first and it continued toward alcoholism. and as a matter of fact pornography is mentioned in the bible. its called lust for another, or adultry ,its in the same boat with drinking, the same principle applies.
smoking cigarettes or pot was never mentioned in the bible either, but ive got a feeling we both know they are wrong. And what you said about "having sex with my wife in church" , dude that was in bad taste and offensive. Please dont do that again.
Thank you

 

I'm not going to say that here, because Brian beat me to it. But it is very relevant to your statement, "Don't do something out of church that you wouldn't do in church."

 

I imagine that a lot of the arguments used in favor of alcohol were also used a 150 years ago in favor of slavery.

People reached a point where they realized that slavery was not a good thing, and eventually it has mostly been done away with (at least in the U.S.) As time progressed, the concept of slavery fell out of favor with people.

The Bible does not prohibit alcohol, and in many cases it endorses it. But there are many verses that indicate that too much is not good.

The difficulty is what is "too much"? Perhaps "too much" 2,000 years ago meant something different than "too much" means today. Just as slavery has fallen out of favor, maybe conditions now exist to make alcohol less favorable as well.

The American Medical Association says that some people experience "impairment" at blood alcohol content levels of .02 or less. These folks suffer impairment with any alcohol usage. At higher levels (but still under the level used by most states of .08) many more suffer impairment.

Clearly alcohol affects the brain. With each additional drink, that increases. With the modern world we live in, with speeding vehicles that require our utmost attention and reflexes, is this a wise beverage to use?

Just wondering . . .

. . . Glory Bound

 

You are likely correct. But again, abuse of a blessing doesn't make the blessing itself evil.

The principle I was getting at, is that drinking wine is mentioned in scripture in a *positive* light. You asked what the difference was, that's the difference.

The point is that you told people "dont do something out of church that you wouldnt do in church" as an argument against social drinking. I was simply showing the argument was without weight, because there are dozens of things each and everyone of us do outside of church that we would never do in church. Just because we wouldn't do them in church, doesn't make the activity wrong. Sex, like wine, is a gift from God. Sex, like wine, can be abused in a way that is both sinful and destructive to both family relationships and your physical life. Sex, like wine, can offend and cause someone else to stumble. Sex, like wine, is probably not something you should be enjoying during the sermon. If wine is evil for the reasons everyone keeps repeating in these threads, sex is also evil using the exact same logic. Anyone abstaining from sex for the same reasons they abstain from wine? I didn't think so.

Is *nobody* who is totally against drinking going to even acknowledge the scripture I posted at the top of page two, let alone try to deal with them? Oh well, I thought this was a Baptist forum, where we didn't ignore scripture just because it didn't jive with our emotional opinions.