Wisdom in church differences with the Fundamentalists

[evangelist6589]

You should never stop preaching.

Without knowing what it is that you're doing that's making them uncomfortable, we have only your word that their discomfort is un-biblical.

So you have to decide: follow Romans 15:1, or give greater care for what YOU want to do.

Good verse. But I wonder how I should fulfill it? I plan to do what I can next week, but I want to make sure that I am not controlled or such. If the Fundamentalist wants to control me then...

I am in the same household as my finance but in separate rooms. I am not living alone with her, as PLENTY OF OTHERS are also living here to hold us accountable. There has been no sin and we have not disobeyed the Bible in this regard. I have spoken with evangelical pastors and leaders whom agree that since this is only for a short period of time, and that I have accountability I am okay. Each one has their conscience but its wrong to make the assumption that I will fall into sin as the Fundamentalist always will wrongly assume. NIV and ESV say avoid every form of evil, and do not say "appearance" as the KJV does.

Something FINALLY opened up and so I plan to sleep there for a week until marriage. However the Fundamentalist pastor wants 2 weeks, and I am not sure if its out of his desire to control me or what not. I do not wish to get in the way of my hosts, and I will say that working 2nd shift and getting home near midnight might be a problem for them. So I figured a week would be better. I just want to be extra carful and make sure that this pastor is not winning in his desire to control me if that is his motive. If I let him control me what will be next??? Perhaps The tracts I use will be next.

 

[Tom Bryant]

While we are concerned with weaker brethren (that's what fundamentalists are) we cannot let them "stupid up" the whole church.

When we are in THEIR territories (their homes, churches, etc...) we abide by their rules- regardless of how dumb and unbiblical they may be.
But otherwise we try to counter that stupidity because stupidity is bondage.

Must be nice to be so informed about hundreds of thousands of people and hundreds of church to be able to call an entire movement "weaker brethren" and guilty of stupiding up the church.

 

[evangelist6589]

Must be nice to be so informed about hundreds of thousands of people and hundreds of church to be able to call an entire movement "weaker brethren" and guilty of stupiding up the church.

Many of them are, however they are better than the false converts of many loose evangelical churches.

 

[evangelist6589]

Makes my point...

http://www.columbiaseminary.edu/coffeetalk/060.html

This article make my point in regards to how the IFB often misinterpret things.

 

[Mexdeaf]

I am in the same household as my finance but in separate rooms. I am not living alone with her, as PLENTY OF OTHERS are also living here to hold us accountable. There has been no sin and we have not disobeyed the Bible in this regard. I have spoken with evangelical pastors and leaders whom agree that since this is only for a short period of time, and that I have accountability I am okay. Each one has their conscience but its wrong to make the assumption that I will fall into sin as the Fundamentalist always will wrongly assume. NIV and ESV say avoid every form of evil, and do not say "appearance" as the KJV does.

Wow, just wow. This is not a wise move on your part for a number of reasons. Like it or not, APPEARANCES COUNT.

I refuse to counsel a couple for marriage if they are living in the same household. And I also refuse to marry a couple without counseling.

Call me whatever you want, but 35 years of ministry experience has shown me that when a young couple lives together (separate rooms, etc. notwithstanding) the future of the marriage is tenuous at best.

I do wish you the best, but you should give serious consideration to living separately.

 

[Don]

Something FINALLY opened up and so I plan to sleep there for a week until marriage. However the Fundamentalist pastor wants 2 weeks, and I am not sure if its out of his desire to control me or what not. I do not wish to get in the way of my hosts, and I will say that working 2nd shift and getting home near midnight might be a problem for them. So I figured a week would be better. I just want to be extra carful and make sure that this pastor is not winning in his desire to control me if that is his motive. If I let him control me what will be next??? Perhaps The tracts I use will be next.

"Is not winning"? This is some kind of contest or battle? This is your marriage we're talking about; you'd rather make sure he doesn't win than whatever it takes to make sure your spouse is happy? Remember the story of Jacob? Didn't he work for seven years to obtain his bride (in effect, allowing her father to "control" him); only to be deceived; but still submitted for another period of time because he truly loved her?

What are you willing to put up with because you love your fiance like Christ loves the church?

"If" that's his motive? You're not even sure that he's trying to control you? But your fiance may be put at odds with the church she's been attending for a while because you *think* he might be trying to control you?

 

[Luke2427]

Must be nice to be so informed about hundreds of thousands of people and hundreds of church to be able to call an entire movement "weaker brethren" and guilty of stupiding up the church.

Not every single Crete was a liar and a slow belly, but Paul did not hesitate to say, "One of their own kind has said, 'All Cretans are liars and slow bellies,'- this statement is true."

When all parties involved in a conversation are thoughtful, intelligent people there is no need for endless qualifications (now I don't mean everybody, etc...) because thoughtful people already KNOW that you don't mean everybody. Thoughtful people know general statements are to be taken generally and thoughtful people recognize a patently obvious general statement when it is made.

I think it is unspeakably obvious that my statement about fundamentalists was a general statement. WHN EARTH thinks that every single person in any large group displays the exact same characteristics across the board??

 

[Tom Bryant]

Not every single Crete was a liar and a slow belly, but Paul did not hesitate to say, "One of their own kind has said, 'All Cretans are liars and slow bellies,'- this statement is true."

When all parties involved in a conversation are thoughtful, intelligent people there is no need for endless qualifications (now I don't mean everybody, etc...) because thoughtful people already KNOW that you don't mean everybody. Thoughtful people know general statements are to be taken generally and thoughtful people recognize a patently obvious general statement when it is made.

I think it is unspeakably obvious that my statement about fundamentalists was a general statement. WHN EARTH thinks that every single person in any large group displays the exact same characteristics across the board??

I guess I'm just not very thoughtful. I read what you wrote and thought you meant it.

 

[evangelist6589]

Wow, just wow. This is not a wise move on your part for a number of reasons. Like it or not, APPEARANCES COUNT.

I refuse to counsel a couple for marriage if they are living in the same household. And I also refuse to marry a couple without counseling.

Call me whatever you want, but 35 years of ministry experience has shown me that when a young couple lives together (separate rooms, etc. notwithstanding) the future of the marriage is tenuous at best.

I do wish you the best, but you should give serious consideration to living separately.

Others are living here so we are not living alone. Maybe you misread my post. Regardless I will sleep over at this other house for a little over a week and have agreed to it.

 

[evangelist6589]

"Is not winning"? This is some kind of contest or battle? This is your marriage we're talking about; you'd rather make sure he doesn't win than whatever it takes to make sure your spouse is happy? Remember the story of Jacob? Didn't he work for seven years to obtain his bride (in effect, allowing her father to "control" him); only to be deceived; but still submitted for another period of time because he truly loved her?

What are you willing to put up with because you love your fiance like Christ loves the church?

"If" that's his motive? You're not even sure that he's trying to control you? But your fiance may be put at odds with the church she's been attending for a while because you *think* he might be trying to control you?

I am not in sin nor have I broken any law. Whats the problem????

 

[evangelist6589]

I beat the odds....

Before I did this there were those that said I would fall into sexual immorality and I promised I would not, and guess what almost 4 months later and I am clean. Some Christians love to judge and do their guilt by association non-sence and try and prove their point with their statistics and putting everyone into a box. Sure it is true that MANY would fall into sexual temptation, but not everyone, so do not assume everyone is the same.

Its like with the Credit Card or Alcohol issue. Many make the unwise ASSUMPTION that everyone whom is in CC debt is in there because of consumeristic spending, and not everyone is there due to car problems or medical bills.

Or with alcohol not everyone who has a Mikes Hard lemonade LIGHT is going to get drunk so do not make the ASSUMPTION that everyone is the same.

 

[Don]

I am not in sin nor have I broken any law. Whats the problem????

The "problem" is exactly as I wrote: you have little regard for others, including your future wife.

What are you willing to sacrifice for your wife and your marriage?

 

[michael-acts17:11]

The "problem" is exactly as I wrote: you have little regard for others, including your future wife.

What are you willing to sacrifice for your wife and your marriage?

It honestly sounds like you are judging a situation without any personal knowledge. The man said that he has ensured accountability from others in the house & sought approval/denial from church leaders. When my wife & I were dating, in our late 20's, she & her young daughter were renting a room from her parents. She lived in another state. So, once we were engaged, I moved in with her parents for three months. She also lived in the house while we searched for a home. Once the home was found, she moved into it until we were married. At which time I joined her. I cannot recall a single person openly judging us or questioning the "appearance" of the situation. Perhaps you should quit looking for areas of condemnation & take the man at his word that the situation is as pure as he has stated? Unless you have evidence that he is lying, I would suggest you holster your judgement.

Where, precisely, did the man say that he has little regard for his future wife?

 

[Don]

It honestly sounds like you are judging a situation without any personal knowledge. The man said that he has ensured accountability from others in the house & sought approval/denial from church leaders. When my wife & I were dating, in our late 20's, she & her young daughter were renting a room from her parents. She lived in another state. So, once we were engaged, I moved in with her parents for three months. She also lived in the house while we searched for a home. Once the home was found, she moved into it until we were married. At which time I joined her. I cannot recall a single person openly judging us or questioning the "appearance" of the situation. Perhaps you should quit looking for areas of condemnation & take the man at his word that the situation is as pure as he has stated? Unless you have evidence that he is lying, I would suggest you holster your judgement.

Where, precisely, did the man say that he has little regard for his future wife?

Just like him, you miss the point completely.

I have no doubt that he and his bride are above reproach -- except from those he's already described as "controlling fundamentalists." This is the church that she's been a member of, according to his prior posts; these are the people that have been her church family for a while. So her church friends, her church family, are looking at the situation that she's now in; and whether we like it or not, whether it's right or not, are making judgments about her, not just him. And if they're the "controlling fundamentalists" he says they are -- and being an IFB myself, and having experience with the different camps of IFBers in different parts of the country, I wouldn't be surprised if they're exactly as he describes -- the judgments they're making are not nice or kind.

Re-look at what he wrote; it was all about him and his suspicion that the pastor might be trying to control him, and his--his--unwillingness to be controlled. Where did he write about the concern for his wife in this situation?

 

[Luke2427]

I guess I'm just not very thoughtful. I read what you wrote and thought you meant it.

Do you use the same interpretive skills to conclude that Paul meant that every single Crete on earth was a liar and a slow belly????

 

[evangelist6589]

It honestly sounds like you are judging a situation without any personal knowledge. The man said that he has ensured accountability from others in the house & sought approval/denial from church leaders. When my wife & I were dating, in our late 20's, she & her young daughter were renting a room from her parents. She lived in another state. So, once we were engaged, I moved in with her parents for three months. She also lived in the house while we searched for a home. Once the home was found, she moved into it until we were married. At which time I joined her. I cannot recall a single person openly judging us or questioning the "appearance" of the situation. Perhaps you should quit looking for areas of condemnation & take the man at his word that the situation is as pure as he has stated? Unless you have evidence that he is lying, I would suggest you holster your judgement.

Where, precisely, did the man say that he has little regard for his future wife?

Appreciate your comments Michael. Don has been on my ignore list for a while and a big reason is the way he posts. Regardless I am choosing to stay in this one house for a little over a week to settle things. No I do not agree with their rational, but I will do it, and especially as it will be free and will not be much out of my way. But then again the Fundamentalist are a different group and perhaps it would be best to respect that as one is in a different culture. Watching Dances with Wolves Just know one needs to have better respect for different cultures and people groups. It may be legalism to me, but just a difference of culture..

 

[evangelist6589]

Just like him, you miss the point completely.

I have no doubt that he and his bride are above reproach -- except from those he's already described as "controlling fundamentalists." This is the church that she's been a member of, according to his prior posts; these are the people that have been her church family for a while. So her church friends, her church family, are looking at the situation that she's now in; and whether we like it or not, whether it's right or not, are making judgments about her, not just him. And if they're the "controlling fundamentalists" he says they are -- and being an IFB myself, and having experience with the different camps of IFBers in different parts of the country, I wouldn't be surprised if they're exactly as he describes -- the judgments they're making are not nice or kind.

Re-look at what he wrote; it was all about him and his suspicion that the pastor might be trying to control him, and his--his--unwillingness to be controlled. Where did he write about the concern for his wife in this situation?

Well it has been resolved as a place has been provided RENT FREE, and not much out of the way. In April they said I should have been out but I did not have a job, so that was not going to happen and I was not charging money to my credit cards over this one. But I just got a job (praise God) and need to pay down the debts if possible. But then again the Fundamentalist are a different group and perhaps it would be bets to respect that as one is in a different culture. Watching Dances wit Wolves Just know one needs to have better respect for different cultures and people groups. It may be legalism to me, but just a difference of culture..

 

[Arbo]

Appreciate your comments Michael. Don has been on my ignore list for a while and a big reason is the way he posts.

http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=87638

Some never cease to amaze me. In gentleness I challenge the use of profanity that someone whom claims Christ often makes on Facebook. So he rewards me by unfriending me. One word for this kind of behavior INSECURITY. I do not generally unfriend someone because they challenge me,...

Ironic...

 

[Don]

Well it has been resolved as a place has been provided RENT FREE, and not much out of the way. In April they said I should have been out but I did not have a job, so that was not going to happen and I was not charging money to my credit cards over this one. But I just got a job (praise God) and need to pay down the debts if possible. But then again the Fundamentalist are a different group and perhaps it would be bets to respect that as one is in a different culture. Watching Dances wit Wolves Just know one needs to have better respect for different cultures and people groups. It may be legalism to me, but just a difference of culture..

Congrats on the job!

Not one response to anything I wrote? Look, you may not like what I write; but my goal is to give you a different perspective, get you to think about things from a different point of view. You'll notice that I didn't say you were wrong; just pointing out that the way you described the situation, you never mentioned how your fiancee feels about how things are going.

 

[Tom Bryant]

Do you use the same interpretive skills to conclude that Paul meant that every single Crete on earth was a liar and a slow belly????

God bless you, Luke.