savedbymercy
New Member
conv 1
I have already told you, not going over it again ! See post 108
I have already told you, not going over it again ! See post 108
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- Thread starter BobRyan
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convicted1
Guest
This was your answer from post #108....
So Abel sinned in Adam? Who did Cain sin in?
savedbymercy
New Member
Cain sinned in the Wicked One ! The wicked one sinned from the beginning scripture says ! 1Jn 3:8 !
convicted1
Guest
Okay. How did he sin in the wicked one?
savedbymercy
New Member
The same way the Elect sinned in Adam !
Willis,
I could very well be wrong, bur I think I may have a handle on what the resident knucklehead is getting at. It seems that everything he believes flows from his thinking about Election. Here goes:
In the eternal realm, God chose, ordained, and predestined everything that would come to pass in this earthly realm. It's a very, very strict form of fatalism. In another thread, Icon mentioned SBM's view that God is the author of sin. For the record, I did not see thus asserted by SBM directly, I could have missed it.
Anywho, in this extreme fatalism, everything happens by God's choice - sin, salvation, what you ate for breakfast, etc. All we're doing in this realm is living in a rerun.
So before anyone was ever born, God determined every action, every thought, every choice. No thought or action finds its root in man.
Adam was chosen to be saved, and to be the "federal head" of those who are children of God. All those chosen to salvation were chosen to be in Adam - in eternity. They sinned in eternity and they were saved in eternity - all by God's choosing.
The children of the devil were not chosen to be children of God, so their sin was not "in Adam"
I'm not sure, but there may be a different classification for sin, depending on whether one was chosen to be in Adam or a child of the devil. The chosen few might have been chosen to commit redeemable sins, while the children of wrath might have been.predestined to commit nonredeemable sins
Maybe similar to the Roman Catholic idea of venial sin versus mortal sin?
If I'm understanding him right, this may be closer to some form of Preexistence
I could very well be wrong, bur I think I may have a handle on what the resident knucklehead is getting at. It seems that everything he believes flows from his thinking about Election. Here goes:
In the eternal realm, God chose, ordained, and predestined everything that would come to pass in this earthly realm. It's a very, very strict form of fatalism. In another thread, Icon mentioned SBM's view that God is the author of sin. For the record, I did not see thus asserted by SBM directly, I could have missed it.
Anywho, in this extreme fatalism, everything happens by God's choice - sin, salvation, what you ate for breakfast, etc. All we're doing in this realm is living in a rerun.
So before anyone was ever born, God determined every action, every thought, every choice. No thought or action finds its root in man.
Adam was chosen to be saved, and to be the "federal head" of those who are children of God. All those chosen to salvation were chosen to be in Adam - in eternity. They sinned in eternity and they were saved in eternity - all by God's choosing.
The children of the devil were not chosen to be children of God, so their sin was not "in Adam"
I'm not sure, but there may be a different classification for sin, depending on whether one was chosen to be in Adam or a child of the devil. The chosen few might have been chosen to commit redeemable sins, while the children of wrath might have been.predestined to commit nonredeemable sins
Maybe similar to the Roman Catholic idea of venial sin versus mortal sin?
If I'm understanding him right, this may be closer to some form of Preexistence
convicted1
Guest
SBM is at best, supporting 'two seedism', at worst, 'serpent seedism'...
Both advocate two seeds, one from Cain...see Kenites according to Arnold Murray's ilk...
Both advocate the seed of Cain as being of the 'unsaveable' seed...
I see it that all fell in Adam, both elect and non-elect...
Neither of the forementioned 'doctrines' advocate that...
Out of the seed of Adam, the chosen shall be saved. But both elect and non-elect come from one seed...
Both advocate two seeds, one from Cain...see Kenites according to Arnold Murray's ilk...
Both advocate the seed of Cain as being of the 'unsaveable' seed...
I see it that all fell in Adam, both elect and non-elect...
Neither of the forementioned 'doctrines' advocate that...
Out of the seed of Adam, the chosen shall be saved. But both elect and non-elect come from one seed...
convicted1
Guest
And what was this way in which Cain fell? If Adam's fall never affected him, something did. Now, what caused it?
savedbymercy
New Member
I just told you how cain fell, in the Wicked One who sinned from the beginning 1 John 3:8 ! Maybe you are not intelligent enough to understand these things. Adam sinned in the beginning and the devil sinned from the beginning ! That is two different heads or fathers !
Typical calvinist response when they cannot clarify their own position.
savedbymercy
New Member
I have explained my position, would like to review with me what I said thus far ?
convicted1
Guest
he who is doing the sin, of the devil he is, because from the beginning the devil doth sin; for this was the Son of God manifested, that he may break up the works of the devil;(1 John 3:8 YLT)
So Cain sinned in the wicked one, and Abel sinned in Adam? So when the seed of Adam sins they sin in Adam? That's what both 'serpent seed' and 'two seed' doctrine advocate. Both are heretical to the very core...
convicted1
Guest
NO!!! You've already done enough damage...
savedbymercy
New Member
Yeah, the devils seed sinned in him and Adams seed sinned in him ! God said that the devil had a seed right here Gen 3:15 ! Do you believe God's word ?
The Archangel
Well-Known Member
Having had extensive conversations with Willis, I know he believes God's word...
The problem is that you have demonstrated no biblical acumen whatsoever. You simply are not able--at this point--to "rightly divide the word of truth." As you've demonstrated time and time again, you give no consideration to context or authorial intent, choosing, rather, to infuse the text with what you wish it says rather than what it actually says. Like the proverbial broken watch that is right only twice per day, you may get a few things right, but that is only by coincidence.
The meaning of many texts that you fracture has been plainly shown to you by me, Willis, and almost countless others (even those who are non-Calvinists!), yet you will not give heed to those who demonstrate an ability to consider context and apply a proper hermeneutic. So, you can no longer ignorance. Indeed you are demonstrating yourself to have what you've foolishly and wrongly accused Willis of--a lack of intelligence.
Though a word to the wise should be sufficient, I'm sure you'll demonstrate yourself to be "Otherwise" as you have so many times in the past.
The Archangel
You haven't asked him the right question: if Cain is of the devil, who was his mother?
(Adam was created by God; I'm curious to see if SBM says Cain was created by Satan)
There is a typical Calvinist response? What's the typical Arminian response?