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Witnesses Against You

npetreley

New Member
skypair said:
but when one "turns to the Lord with all your heart and soul," that's a one-time deal.

You are changing the word "AND" into "BUT" in order to draw your conclusion. That's not very wise. The Bible includes a warning about people who attempt to add to/remove/change what it says.
 

npetreley

New Member
For those who are too busy (ahem, whatever) to look it up:

Deut 30:1 “Now it shall come to pass, when all these things come upon you, the blessing and the curse which I have set before you, and you call them to mind among all the nations where the LORD your God drives you
Scattering (driving) them to other nations is one of the curses. God is saying right here He already knows that they will fail and be subject to this curse and be driven to other nations. Do you suppose this is why heaven and earth are called as witnesses AGAINST them?

Do they ever succeed? Yes...and here's HOW they succeed.

5 He will bring you to the land that belonged to your fathers, and you will take possession of it. He will make you more prosperous and numerous than your fathers. 6 The LORD your God will circumcise your hearts [regeneration] and the hearts of your descendants, so that you may love him with all your heart and with all your soul, and live.
He knows they are going to fail, and says that He must (and will) circumcise their hearts so that they may love him and live.

I happen to like how Martin Luther addresses this in his response to Erasmus (Bondage of the Will), when Erasmus makes the same claim as the free-willers do.


"This commandment which I command thee this day, is not above thee, neither is it far off. Neither is it in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who of us shall ascend up into heaven and bring it down unto us, that we may hear it and do it. But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it." The Diatribe contends - 'that it is declared by this passage, that what is commanded is not only placed in us, but is down-hill work, that is, easy to be done, or at least, not difficult.'

I thank the Diatribe for such wonderful erudition! For if Moses so plainly declare, that there is in us, not only an ability, but also a power to keep all the commandments with ease, why have I been toiling all this time! Why did I not at once produce this passage and assert "Free-will" before the whole world! What need now of Christ! What need of the Spirit! We have now found a passage which stops the mouths of all, and, which not only plainly asserts the liberty of the will, but teaches that the observance of all the commandments is easy! What need was there for Christ to purchase for us, even with His own blood, the Spirit, as though necessary, in order that He might make the keeping of the commandments easy unto us, when we were already thus qualified by nature! Nay, here, the Diatribe itself recants its own assertions, where it affirmed, that '"Freewill" cannot will any thing good without grace,' and now affirms, that "Free-will" is of such power, that it can, not only will good, but keep the greatest, nay, all the commandments, with ease.

[...]

What therefore does Moses mean by these most plain and clear words, but, that he has worthily performed his office as a faithful law-giver; and that therefore, if all men have not before their eyes and do not know all the precepts which are enjoined, the fault does not rest with him; that they have no place left them for excuse, so as to say, they did not know, or had not the precepts, or were obliged to seek them elsewhere; that if they do not keep them, the fault rests not with the law, or with the law-giver, but with themselves, seeing that the law is before them, and the law-giver has taught them; and that they have no place left for excusation of ignorance, only for accusation of negligence and disobedience? It is not, saith he, necessary to fetch the laws down from heaven, nor from lands beyond the sea, nor from afar, nor can you frame as an excuse, that you never had them nor heard them, for you have them nigh unto you; they are they which God hath commanded, which you have heard from my mouth, and which you have had in your hearts and in your mouths continually; you have heard them treated on by the Levites in the midst of you, of which this my word and book are witnesses; this, therefore only remains - that you do them. - What, I pray you, is here attributed unto "Free-will?" What is there, but the 'demanding that it would do the laws which it has, and the taking away from it the excuse of ignorance and the want of the laws?
Or to summarize the last paragraph of Luther (Romans 3:20) ...through the law is the knowledge of sin. The reason it is witness AGAINST them is because the whole point is to make them aware of their depravity and inability to do what is necessary to choose life. That's why you can't name a single person other than Jesus who fulfilled all these commands. No one is justified by the law, but through the law is the knowledge of sin.

When God's point has been made, He will convict them and regenerate them (circumcise their hearts) so that they will have the ability to love the LORD and live.
 
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psalms109:31

Active Member
Scripture

Also they use they use choose today who you are going to serve the gods of your for-father or the God of Jacob. As for me and my house we will serve the Lord.

I am not a calvinist or a free willer both fall short of the Glory of God and thier teaching is incomplete. Me I am just a Christain with my only hope for my salvation is Jesus.

Jesus words are Spirit and they are Life only through His words are we given a choose between life and death.


Believe in Him and be saved or not and be condemned.

Only through Jesus this choice is presented only in Him we are given life and the truth.

So do not lean on your own understanding, but trust in the Lord.

His words are witness against you.

If you do not believe in Him you will be condemned.
 
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windcatcher

New Member
First of all, when I replied to the OP, it did not have scripture reference other than verses....... and it was nearly 11PM last night.

I rose early this morning and had a dinner to prepare and deliver by 11:00 today, and then I return to these boards and find that it was with reluctance the poster supplies the scripture; but the poster's deportment communicates his/her time is too precious to address and clarify the communications requested.

It would be helpful to me if someone would enlighten me regarding what they mean by 'free-will' and as opposed to what ......and define that also. The title of the thread "Witnesses Against You" certainly does not disclose the context nor address 'free-will'. (Could I have suggested a choice which would gather response from 'free -will' might be "A question for free-will" or "Witnesses and Free-Will" or something similar ...might address the responses you seek.)


In the meantime, with 4000+ posts one surely has had time to polish their presentation, and to exercise good manners. A reasonable request I made only met with insolence and insistance for others to respond to the OP, when it seems there is one and maybe several who don't understand what the question is.
 

windcatcher

New Member
Suffice all this to say, may I correctly conclude I came to a party without knowledge and uninvited? And as it remains, I've learned nothing, so I apologize as it's clearer to me that I intruded. Adieu! I'll just lurk and maybe learn something if it is presented so that I understand. I did not mean to answer so rudely!
 

npetreley

New Member
windcatcher said:
Suffice all this to say, may I correctly conclude I came to a party without knowledge and uninvited? And as it remains, I've learned nothing, so I apologize as it's clearer to me that I intruded. Adieu! I'll just lurk and maybe learn something if it is presented so that I understand. I did not mean to answer so rudely!

I don't mean to be rude, either, but I have no idea what you're talking about in this or the previous post.
 

Amy.G

New Member
psalms109:31 said:
I am not a calvinist or a free willer both fall short of the Glory of God and thier teaching is incomplete. Me I am just a Christain with my only hope for my salvation is Jesus.

Amen! Me too.
 

Amy.G

New Member
windcatcher said:
Suffice all this to say, may I correctly conclude I came to a party without knowledge and uninvited? And as it remains, I've learned nothing, so I apologize as it's clearer to me that I intruded. Adieu! I'll just lurk and maybe learn something if it is presented so that I understand. I did not mean to answer so rudely!
This is a discussion about Calvinism.

Welcome! :wavey:
 

Allan

Active Member
npetreley said:
Finally! Someone brave enough to tackle at least one question!
I don't know about brave - how about bored :laugh: (I'm at work)

Technically, it doesn't say "choose whom you will serve", it says more than that. It says your choice is to obey the LORD your God and keep his commands and decrees written in this Book of the Law. That's what is required to "choose life". Read it for yourself:
ok... I didn't say it states "choose whom you will serve" I stated this:
God says they have a choice of life or death Literally it is to whom they will serve...
The scripture passage says:
Deu 30:19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, [that] I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:
It is of note in this passage you bring up that God says "I set before you life AND death" therefore (in light of this) CHOOSE Life - that you and yours MAY live. "May" meaning potential to all there and their offspring.

Another thing, It does not say "your choice is to obey" as if there if only one option but rather is the Lord advising them which choice is the better or blessed option.
Deu 30:20 That thou mayest love the LORD thy God, [and] that thou mayest obey his voice, and that thou mayest cleave unto him: for he [is] thy life, and the length of thy days: that thou mayest dwell in the land which the LORD sware unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them.
First is says CHOOSE life - then it states - that you may LOVE the Lord thy God, OBEY His vioce, and CLEAVE to Him. All of this comes from the their choosing Life (in God). Did God lie? It states unquestionably - Choose, that you may...
Godsays that what He is commanding is easy, or at least not too difficult. It's not out of reach. In fact, it's right inside you, in your mouth and heart. You must choose.

In Chapter 29 God lays out the blessings and Cursing of "the Nation of Israel" in relation to their obedience and how it deals with the Covenant they enter into with God.

But the beginning of chapter 30 up till verse 10 which is a prediction (prophesey)of the regathering of Israel from all nations to which (historically we know) she was scattered because of their Cursing for disobedience to that covenant.

This regathering mentioned here will take place at the second coming of Christ (verse 3 - The Lord ... will return... and Mk 13:26-27 and will include (1) Restoration of the Land of Palistine (vs 5), (2) A work of grace in the peoples hearts (vs 6) and is corellary to Duet 10:16 "Circumsize your heart..." but but unlike the Mosaic Covenant in which they must circumsize, this will be unconditional in which God does it on their behalf. (3) judgment of Israels Enemies (vs 7 and Joel 3:1-2) and (4)prosperity in the land (vs 9 and also Amos 9:11-15) .

Remember however that is verse one of Chapter 30 states "and it shall come to pass when ALL THESE THINGS shall come upon you"... The blessings and then the Cursing. Israel was blessed for the most part but much later on the became cursed and dispersed just as God said. This bring in the prophet pose showing that God will not leave them seperated from Him but will intervene on their behalf.
If you will notice also that Duet 29:29 (the last verse) say the secret things belong to God to know but God has revealed these thing to you that you may obey the law (to maintain a right relationship with God) and then God picks this same line up in Chpater 30:11 by saying this commandment (choosing life or death, good or evil) is not hidden from them, niether is it far off (it is before them).

However the what gives clarity to (who has obeyed ALL THE COMMANDS or LAW except Jesus) is verse 15 in which God states I have set before thee Life and Good , death and evil.

Vs 16 - God then say I command you to Love the Lord your God (He is ALREADY their God), to walk..., to keep...
BUT
In verse 17 it states:
If your heart turns away so that you will no longer listen but be drawn away... vs 18 - I denounce to you that you will perish and you days will not be lengthened on the earth. This shows the "live" in verse 16 is not salvation but physical life which is part of the blessing regarding a proper relationship with Lord to the Jews.

He goes on to speak of His witnesses and they (Israel) CHOOSE Life over death.
THEN GOD states that WHEN you choose LIFE and GOOD you WILL love God, OBey His voice, have long life, and dwell in the Land promised.
Can you name a single person other than Jesus who followed all these instructions, who obeyed the LORD our God and kept his commands and decrees that are written in this Book of the Law and turned to the LORD our God with their heart and with all their soul such that they chose life? C'mon, I'm only asking for the name of one person.
Israel did and will again. It isn't about keeping the law to have a relationship with God. But about believing God, and GOD will bring all these things to pass.

Thus verse 19 and 20
19 - CHoose Life
20 - That you may ...

Is choosing life or rather believing God a work?
Not according to scripture.
Rom 4:4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
Rom 4:5 ¶ But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

OR according to the NASB
4 Now to the one who works, his wage is not credited as a favor, but as what is due.
5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness,
6 just as David also speaks of the blessing on the man to whom God credits righteousness apart from works:
 
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skypair

Active Member
npetreley said:
You are changing the word "AND" into "BUT" in order to draw your conclusion. That's not very wise. The Bible includes a warning about people who attempt to add to/remove/change what it says.
Not in the text I' m not -- just in my explanation. The three things together are ALL accomplished through "turning unto the Lord."

And you should recognize that from 1John, too. "He that loveth Me keepeth My commandments and My commandments are not grievous." "Whoever abideth in Him sinnneth not..." (3:6) "Whosoever is born of God doeth not commit sin." (3:9)

Thus we see that keeping the commandments is "bound up in" turning to Christ. AND that God offered that option to all the people of Israel. And from Deut 30:1 that they hadn't had their hearts circumcised yet which is why they couldn't obey the commandments. They'll get there "day" -- the MK.

skypair
 
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Allan

Active Member
PS - IOW The law is fulfilled not by works but by the work of the Law in the shedding of Blood of a perfect substitutionary sacrifce.

Or

Not by ours works of the Law but through faith in that work already offered under the Law.
 

DQuixote

New Member
npetreley, you remind me of a Barney Fife-type motorcycle officer hiding behind a billboard waiting for a speeder to come by, then getting so angry that no one did, loses control of bike on the way back to the department, totals it, and blames it on a faulty machine.

Lay a trap, no one takes the cheese, you pick the trap up and throw it against a wall. What you fail to realize is if the "cheese" in the OP is limberger, no one will come around.

Or like this: "Hail, children, come and see! I have lain a trapdoor before ye! Come now, enter in, that I may browbeat you whilst ye be down in the pit. Yea, the beater of brows hath spoken!"

Selah.
 

J.D.

Active Member
Site Supporter
DQuixote said:
npetreley, you remind me of a Barney Fife-type motorcycle officer hiding behind a billboard waiting for a speeder to come by, then getting so angry that no one did, loses control of bike on the way back to the department, totals it, and blames it on a faulty machine.

Lay a trap, no one takes the cheese, you pick the trap up and throw it against a wall. What you fail to realize is if the "cheese" in the OP is limberger, no one will come around.

Or like this: "Hail, children, come and see! I have lain a trapdoor before ye! Come now, enter in, that I may browbeat you whilst ye be down in the pit. Yea, the beater of brows hath spoken!"

Selah.

I'm not Npet but speaking on his behalf I would like to thank you for that insight.

Now as for the OP, a "witness against you" does not justify you but condemns you. That's what the law does - it condemns man.

It's simple. No trap.

But freewill likes to make hay out of God's commandment to "choose". Yes, God commands them to choose life that they may live, and He also commands them to obey the law that they may live.

But DID they choose life, and obey the law?

Here is the Bible answer:

Dty 31:16 And the LORD said unto Moses, Behold, thou shalt sleep with thy fathers; and this people will rise up, and go a whoring after the gods of the strangers of the land, whither they go [to be] among them, and will forsake me, and break my covenant which I have made with them.

The choices of depraved man are always depraved choices. He willingly sins, because his will is bound to sin.

But those of us whom God has regenerated have a will to serve Him by the new nature that he has created within us. There is no witness against us, because He has rendered us "dead to the law". "Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifies".
(Rom 8)
 

Amy.G

New Member
J.D. said:
I'm not Npet but speaking on his behalf I would like to thank you for that insight.

Now as for the OP, a "witness against you" does not justify you but condemns you. That's what the law does - it condemns man.

It's simple. No trap.

But freewill likes to make hay out of God's commandment to "choose". Yes, God commands them to choose life that they may live, and He also commands them to obey the law that they may live.

But DID they choose life, and obey the law?

Here is the Bible answer:

Dty 31:16 And the LORD said unto Moses, Behold, thou shalt sleep with thy fathers; and this people will rise up, and go a whoring after the gods of the strangers of the land, whither they go [to be] among them, and will forsake me, and break my covenant which I have made with them.

The choices of depraved man are always depraved choices. He willingly sins, because his will is bound to sin.

But those of us whom God has regenerated have a will to serve Him by the new nature that he has created within us. There is no witness against us, because He has rendered us "dead to the law". "Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifies".
(Rom 8)
Yet, Israel was still God's chosen people, in spite of their disobedience.

While we were YET sinners, Christ died for us.

It is not the healthy that need a physician, but the sick.

We still have a choice to make because we are created in God's image, with a mind to reason and the freedom to make decisions.
 

npetreley

New Member
J.D. said:
Now as for the OP, a "witness against you" does not justify you but condemns you. That's what the law does - it condemns man.

Thanks, J.D. And that was, indeed, my point. The law condemns, and makes it possible for God to enlighten men to recognize their depravity. God says at the beginning of the chapter what was going to happen, so it's not like there was any possibility they'd "choose" to obey: "I command you today to love the LORD your God, to walk in His ways, and to keep His commandments, His statutes, and His judgments". And, of course, nobody did this back then, and nobody does this now. Not even we, as saved individuals, do this. We have a new heart, and we are being sanctified, but, "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us." What is sin? Disobedience.

That's why it's impossible to name anyone who has ever "chosen life" in the way required by God in this chapter, and that's why it says "against you".
 

Allan

Active Member
npetreley said:
Thanks, J.D. And that was, indeed, my point. The law condemns, and makes it possible for God to enlighten men to recognize their depravity. God says at the beginning of the chapter what was going to happen, so it's not like there was any possibility they'd "choose" to obey: "I command you today to love the LORD your God, to walk in His ways, and to keep His commandments, His statutes, and His judgments". And, of course, nobody did this back then, and nobody does this now. Not even we, as saved individuals, do this. We have a new heart, and we are being sanctified, but, "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us." What is sin? Disobedience.

That's why it's impossible to name anyone who has ever "chosen life" in the way required by God in this chapter, and that's why it says "against you".
Uh, they DID "choose" to obey. THEY entered into convenant with God who set out said covenant WHILE in sinfilled natures.

The scripture you gave about new hearts and such is not about NOW but when God (CHrist) comes BACK (...when He returns - vs 3). There God will circumsize their hearts at THAT time unconditionally, which is different than the previously stated command in Duet to "circumize THEIR OWN hearts".

I agree that man without the invention of God (if left to himself) is nothing but sinful because his nature allows nothing contrary to itself to be recieved through the natural means. That is why God must be the one to illuminate His Word and reveal its truths, NOT MAN. Ony then can man have a "choice" for the Lord has set before him (only at that time) life and death, where as before he only had death.

No it is not impossible to list one person who has ever chosen life. The bible is FULL of people who have.

What the bible doesn't have is people who have kept all the Law. And THAT is a different matter.

God says if you 'choose' life, then you will love Him, obey Him, ext... vs 30:19-20
These are only done by faith to them, and through faith with us.

The heavens and earth being witnesses against them, does not mean they have a negative testimony agaist Israel but that they (the heavens and earth - All of Creation itself) will testify or be God witness of the Israelites choice so they can't say didn't choose or know there was a choice. In the mouth of two or three witnesses a thing is established - 1. Heavens 2. Earth 3. God Himself

THIS IS WHY God says, "therefore" (in light of this - there are witnesses prensent) CHOOSE LIFE. You can't get around that statement. God commands they "choose" life and He brought forth Witnesses (heavens and the earth - Literally all creation) to testify what choice they make.

Edited in - Thus post #29 going pretty much verse by verse.
 
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J.D.

Active Member
Site Supporter
There God will circumsize their hearts at THAT time unconditionally,

You mean circumcision of the heart does not happen NOW for a believer?

And by unconditionally, do you mean that their heart-circumcision will not be conditioned upon their free will?
 
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J.D.

Active Member
Site Supporter
Uh, they DID "choose" to obey. THEY entered into convenant with God who set out said covenant WHILE in sinfilled natures.

Uh, they SAID they would obey. But what did they DO?

How can a depraved man choose to love God, whom he hates?
 

npetreley

New Member
Allan said:
God says if you 'choose' life, then you will love Him, obey Him, ext... vs 30:19-20
First, verses 19-20 do not exist in a vacuum. There are multiple conditions connected by AND not by "THE FOLLOWING WILL NATURALLY RESULT IF YOU..."

15 “See, I have set before you today life and good, death and evil, 16 in that I command you today
Command you to do what?

to love the LORD your God, to walk in His ways
Here's where you want to insert a "then the next part will follow -- but that's NOT what the text says. It says AND. There are more conditions in this contract, and they include keeping His commandments, His statutes, His judgements.

AND to keep His commandments, His statutes, and His judgments, that you may live and multiply; and the LORD your God will bless you in the land which you go to possess. 17 But if your heart turns away so that you do not hear, and are drawn away, and worship other gods and serve them, 18 I announce to you today that you shall surely perish; you shall not prolong your days in the land which you cross over the Jordan to go in and possess. 19 I call heaven and earth as witnesses today against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing; therefore choose life,
Allan said:
These are only done by faith to them, and through faith with us.
Huh? First, I have no idea what you're saying. Second, there's nothing even remotely like that in the text.
 

Allan

Active Member
npetreley said:
First, verses 19-20 do not exist in a vacuum. There are multiple conditions connected by AND not by "THE FOLLOWING WILL NATURALLY RESULT IF YOU..."

Command you to do what?

Here's where you want to insert a "then the next part will follow -- but that's NOT what the text says. It says AND. There are more conditions in this contract, and they include keeping His commandments, His statutes, His judgements.

Huh? First, I have no idea what you're saying. Second, there's nothing even remotely like that in the text.
The problem is the YOUR verses exist in a vacuum. I gave a basic verse by verse rendering the text involved so the content is allowed to establish context. I haven't see you do this, but you have sectioned them and tried to use them out of their contexual order (specifically future second coming and present). The part you are wishing to establish your proof text on IS A future event; the seconding coming.
Up till then here HAS BEEN NO dispursement nor blessing. BOTH of those things must come to pass as says verse 1 in conjuction with the previous chapter (29) which establish what the blessing and cursings are.

Yes, the SCRIPTURE says directly and specifically regardless of you person preference; in 19 and 20 - If you...then you will...

Your multiple conditions are met in their faith. Read Hebrew 11 for specific people and read the OT to see Gods blessing (which is the result of obey His commands) through much of OT (specifically in through the middle) and then the cursing specifically (at its most predominant part) in the later part of OT and the NT. Then look at the prophetic scriptures which speak of God bringing them back unto Himself AFTER BOTH OF THESE come to pass. Remember this covenant is a perpetual covenant to Israel and their desendents.

Did THAT generation spoken to in Duet. get dispursed and have to be ragerthered a nation, which is proof they did not keep their commitment to the commands of God (The Covenant). No, they went over the Jordan and took the Land, proof they were obeying the commands of God.

Your problem is your understanding of scripture and therefore you can not recieve the text AS IT IS.
It states :
Deu 30:14 But the word [is] very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.
Deu 30:15 ¶ See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil;
God says the abibity is there but NOT in works or deed but in "word", which is both in their mouth and heart THAT YOU MAY DO IT. Paul elaborates on this in Romans 10 (speaking of Israel at his time - dispursement)
Rom 10:5 For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.
Rom 10:6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down [from above]:)
Rom 10:7 Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)
Rom 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, [even] in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Rom 10:11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
Rom 10:12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
Rom 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
He explains earlier the pharisaical view of living by the Law to be righteous does not give true righteousness unto salvation because we fall short against it, but HERE he states that word is the word which is faith and they shall be saved by it and using the SAME verse from Duet 30. They will be made into a right relationship with God NOT through works of keeping the Law but faith because of what the Law reveals. It is the same message in Duet. and Paul is expressely state stating this,a and you are missing this point. God isn't saying obey me to the letter but believe because you are incapable and only through me (choosing life) will you be able WITH ME to do all these things in a pleasing way dispite your inability to keep all the law.
Otherwise Israel would have NEVER become a great Nation because they could not keep all the law all the time. But God blessed them in accordance WITH the command in the Covenant, WHy?? They did not do all God commanded them but they were still blessed as though they did. It is because they CHOOSE Life (vs 19) and they will...(vs 20) Then it was up to the next generation to do the same, and the next, and the next, and here is where we see Israel fall, then stand, then fall, then stand, Stand TALL, and then what a great fall. They stood when the choose God and fell when the followed after other gods and became a rebellious people. Rebellious toward what? The Covenant/God.
Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Though this scripture is AFTER Christs death and resurrection, the principle is still true for the Jews in Duet. If you choose life you are free from death.

Yes the scripture does say just what I declared to you. Your the one jumping all over the text, I went verse by verse.
Here's where you want to insert a "then the next part will follow -- but that's NOT what the text says. It says AND. There are more conditions in this contract, and they include keeping His commandments, His statutes, His judgements.
Actaully your wrong and scripture declares it very LOUDLY.
Deu 30:15 ¶ See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil;
Deu 30:16 In that I command thee this day to love the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commandments and his statutes and his judgments, that thou mayest live and multiply: and the LORD thy God shall bless thee in the land whither thou goest to possess it.
Deu 30:17 But if thine heart turn away, so that thou wilt not hear, but shalt be drawn away, and worship other gods, and serve them;
Deu 30:18 I denounce unto you this day, that ye shall surely perish, [and that] ye shall not prolong [your] days upon the land, whither thou passest over Jordan to go to possess it.
Deu 30:19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, [that] I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:
Deu 30:20 That thou mayest love the LORD thy God, [and] that thou mayest obey his voice, and that thou mayest cleave unto him: for he [is] thy life, and the length of thy days: that thou mayest dwell in the land which the LORD sware unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them
Now just so we understand scripture, it says life and death are set before them - God then commands they do "X" amount of thingS and they will be blessed and posses the Land.
YOU stated: No man except Jesus has ever done this.

Yet scritpure says if they will OBEY ALL of these things the will go over the Jordan and posses the Land. WHICH THEY DID!
So either God lied, or your understanding of this text is out of sync with the context it is speaking to.
They walked in fulfillment of the Covenant and as promised they took the Land, and finished taking all God had promised their faithers Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
Now since we KNOW they could not do this without fouling up daily, because they were still mortal men just how could God honestly bless them in accordance with the covenant. Because of VERSE 19.
IT was about "choosing" LIFE!
And each generation had to do the same. Which is why some generations were blessed in accordance with the Covenant and others were Cursed in accordance with the Covenant. It is about faith that is nigh thee np, even in your mouth. IF you will...but IF you will not... That speaks volumes.
And the emphasis is on "You".

EDITED IN:
Please go back, if you would. And address post #29.
 
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