BobRyan said: “I don't argue that there are no differences - or areas for debate -- I just argue that they should be the "actual ones" and not just "whatever comes to someone's mind".
Since all religion is established on something, shouldn’t the correct one be in accordance with God’s instruction (Isa 28:10; 2 Tim 2:15), precept upon precept, in context, the meaning of the words subjected to Webster, or some other unbiased collegiate dictionary definition, & not what someone thinks the verses or the words mean?
A) Sir, do you accept that standard?
There are over 500 “Christian” denominations all claiming they are being obedient to what God said. Since it‘s obvious they all can‘t be right, then it is also obvious all but one are wrong, if not all, is it not?
B) Yes or no?
BobRyan said: “Your argument above is based on the idea that Romans 1 and Eph 2 can be interpreted to mean that "God did NOT so love the WORLD until Christ came. Prior to that God only so-loved-the-jews".”
Friend, that is not my interpretation, that is exactly what God said in the context as He said it (Isa 28:10; 2 Tim 2:15). As you well know there are no “Jews” until “Father Abraham.”
C) Yes or no?
BobRyan said: “Adventists do not go for that idea.”
OK, demonstrate, book, chapter & verse, that “Adventists” can scripturally (Isa 28:10; 2 Tim 2:15) prove the dogma they teach is correct.
BobRyan said: “We claim that Christ was slain from the foundations of the World. One Gospel (Gal 1:6-11) in ALL ages!”
It is clear from Mt 10:5-6; Jn 4:22 that Gentiles were excluded as God said (Gen 17:12-14; Isa 56:1-6; Amos 3:2; Acts 13:47-48; Romans One; Eph 2:11-12 etc). Nobody, including the 12 Apostles, fully understood what The Lord did for us at Calvary, until they learned such from Paul, @ 12 years later, as demonstrated by what they preached. Therefore, your premise fails God's requirements Isa 28:10; 2 Tim 2:15.
BobRyan says: “WE claim that Adam was not a Jew, nor was Noah, nor Enoch (who went to heaven without dying). These are examples of saints living before the Cross that are not "loved just because they are descended from Abraham".”
1) Where did I imply Adam, Noah or Enoch were Jews, or that “… they are descended from Abraham”? Sir, I can scripturally prove that Abram descended from them.
2) When God called out Abram He then restricted Himself (Gen 12:1-7; Amos 3:2 )
3) So please give me book, chapter & verse for your opinion that Gentiles could have salvation apart from Abraham ( Gen 17:1-14 ) since the scriptures stated above, & here are a few more (Gen 12:1-4; Josh 24:2-13), refute your opinion.
As you well know, idolatry is the reason God separated Abram (Rom 1:17-32) in order to make out of him a Godly nation that was to be His witness to the Gentile nations. Thus by your false false premise you are claiming idol worshippers could be saved.
BobRyan says: “Further we claim the Romans 9 point that THEY ARE NOT all God's people who are children of the flesh but RATHER it is children of the PROMISE that have always been the people of God - “
Better expand on that with book chapter & verse, for it is clear from the verses I’ve given that salvation was NOT extended to Gentiles UNLESS they submitted to God’s covenant, judgments & kept His Sabbaths.
BobRyan says: “ONE Gospel in ALL ages given by ONE God that ALWAYS "So loved the World" and Always had the Gospel model of "Saved by Grace through faith - and that NOT of Works lest ANY MAN should boas".”
Friend, to suppose that Adam to the time of Christ that anyone knew the truth of Eph 2:8-9 is presumptuous ( Ps 19:13 ). When David said ( Ps 32:2) remember he also said ( Ps 33:12 ), & that nation was Israel, consequently God‘s choice ( Ps 65:4 ) which ( Rom 9:13-18 ) reinforces.
If you have scripture, in context, that refutes what I earlier gave you then please cite such. You are demonstrating why there are over 500 denominations by your deliberately rejecting what God clearly told you to do Isa 28:10; 2 Tim 2:15.
BobRyan says: “Your model adopts a "Salvation by works" gospel for the first 4000 years claiming that God only loved the Jews during that time.”
1) Please post the date & time that my “model” implied such. You well know the “old covenant” wasn’t given until Exodus 20. Not until Genesis 12 does God began His separation of a nation dedicated to Himself & starts dispensing the terms of its operation. Do you agree to that? If not give me book, chapter & verse, sir.
2) From Adam to Abram there was no “old covenant”, thus there was no Jew.
3) And from Genesis 12; Josh 24:2-13 it is clear as to who, Abram, what, a nation, where, the land promised, & why, idolatry, such was being done. Do you agree to that? If not, give me book, chapter & verse, sir.
Therefore, to claim that: “In Gen 2 there is no Jew - God makes the 7th day a Holy Day THEN according to Gen 2:3.”, is a ruse. Please identify, from Genesis 2 - 12, chapter & verse where anyone is instructed by God to observe the Sabbath. Thank you, sir.
BobRyan said: “In Isaiah 66 we see that even in the future post-cross age of the NEW EARTH "From Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to Worship".
That gets into premill verses amill doctrine, which is being debated elsewhere on this website, & it doesn’t pertain to the present practices of “Adventist” doctrine. So unless you have a good scriptural explanation for going there, please refrain. Thank you, sir.
BobRyan said: “In Mark 2:27 Christ said that the "Sabbath was MADE for MANKIND". “It is impossible to limit Christ the Creator's Holy Day memorial of His own creative act in making us - to "just making the Jews".
Again, your premise is faulty, as you will see when you fail to give me book, chapter & verse where God instructed Gentiles to observe His Sabbath.
BobRyan said: “The scope even by pre-cross OT text standards is bigger than that as we see above.”
I don’t understand your point, sir. Would you please elaborate. Thank you.
Cordially, Dave
