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Woman! Put you your head covering on and SHUT UP!
- Thread starter Inquiring Mind
- Start date
TaliOrlando
New Member
So there shouldnt be Women as Pastors. Paula White, Joyce Meyers, Juanita Bynum ext.. I am confused?? Thanks
Funny thing. When all women in society were wearing hats, we never preached that the scriptures taught any such thing as being mandatory in a modern church.
If a hat symbolizes submission, why does the Queen of England always wear a hat? You think she is showing submission to her husband? Not on your nelly mate.
The passage, such as 1 Peter 3 is teaching equality, if you read far enough in the first paragraph.
Some theologians even taught that Peter was referencing the old Synagogue, where women were nothing. He thiks this passage is actually expressing the woman's new found freedom in Christ, and the mutual respect between man and wife...read F.F. Bruce. Also read the Phillips rendition of 1 Peter 3...It is rather a delightful read.
I am not about to subjugate women to a lower place, when God sets them free in the gospel.
On Sunday, I didn't see a single head covering in the congregation, not even the older ladies. This is one Baptist Church that is not bending to the bullies.
Cheers,
Jim
If a hat symbolizes submission, why does the Queen of England always wear a hat? You think she is showing submission to her husband? Not on your nelly mate.
The passage, such as 1 Peter 3 is teaching equality, if you read far enough in the first paragraph.
Some theologians even taught that Peter was referencing the old Synagogue, where women were nothing. He thiks this passage is actually expressing the woman's new found freedom in Christ, and the mutual respect between man and wife...read F.F. Bruce. Also read the Phillips rendition of 1 Peter 3...It is rather a delightful read.
I am not about to subjugate women to a lower place, when God sets them free in the gospel.
On Sunday, I didn't see a single head covering in the congregation, not even the older ladies. This is one Baptist Church that is not bending to the bullies.
Cheers,
Jim
Wow, I can't believe no one lit into me. I guess I don't make a good chauvinist but I did try to get it heated Joseph.
Jim, I don't miss those big old hats that no one could see from behind. You take a kid, make them sit behind a lady with a big hat then tell them to pay attention????
Jim, I don't miss those big old hats that no one could see from behind. You take a kid, make them sit behind a lady with a big hat then tell them to pay attention????
Brother Bob
New Member
Well, we are a church that practice the sisters to have long hair. The are not even supposed to cut it but many do cut some off but still maintain a length down or past the shoulders. It is an order they agree to when they become a member. I know other Baptist used to have the order but have let it go over the years. I have never believed that a woman with her hair cut will cause her to miss heaven. For a woman to have really long hair is quite a job for them personally. As my mother said once "if it is ok to cut your hair off then we have killed ourselves all these years for nothing." Women notice other women more than us men do. A sister will tell on another who she thinks has cut her hair and I have never noticed.
James_Newman
New Member
Claudia_T said:
But did they do it in the church? The whole context of Paul's command for women to keep silent is in the church. Outside, they may speak. If they couldn't, all you ladies would be in a world of trouble.:laugh:
Jim1999 said:
PJ said:
DHK said:
Well, okay DHK. I would invite you to come worship with us, but women teach (not preach) in ALL areas except adult coed Sunday School. We have both genders team teaching the youth. Does she teach? Uh huh, just as much as he does.
Brother Bob said:
Scripture reference, please ...
Claudia_T said:
Certainly not in our baptist church, Claudia.
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James_Newman
New Member
Claudia_T said:
Why do all the movies show a long haired hippy Jesus? It doesn't say Jesus had long hair in the bible. Thats an image that has been given to us by the catholic church. I don't know about not cutting your hair, but as to cutting it short, well the bible speaks for itself.
1 Corinthians 11:6
6 For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered.
1 Corinthians 11:14-15
14 Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?
15 But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her (long)hair is given her for a covering.
Granted, long hair on Jesus in artwork is an artist's conception. The artist must have gotten the idea from somewhere. It was a common conception, and I suggest long hair on men was common.
Again, Paul is addressing a specific problem in that church having to do with the prostitutes who had their heads shorn. Paul talks about the women's hair as a glory to her.
Frankly, I would like to see some men observe silence in church, they utter such nonsense at times.
Cheers, and God bless the ladies,
Jim
Again, Paul is addressing a specific problem in that church having to do with the prostitutes who had their heads shorn. Paul talks about the women's hair as a glory to her.
Frankly, I would like to see some men observe silence in church, they utter such nonsense at times.
Cheers, and God bless the ladies,
Jim
James_Newman
New Member
Jim1999 said:
I'm sure you had to go to the greek to find prostitutes in that text. Do you have a source, or do you just make this stuff up? I bet you would make a better politician than a theologian. All the ladies would vote for you. At least the ladies that are allowed to vote. :laugh:
Brother Bob
New Member
I think it is foolish to say the covering was not her hair after the above scripture. You sure have to do some "spinning" for it not to mean her hair.
I really didn't want to get in to this discussion for we have only this one scripture about the hair and I am not real sold on it but I don't think Paul wrote a whole chapter condemning it and at the very last say "if any man be contentious we have not such custom and neither do the churches of God".
If any of you "old Baptist" don't know that in your own history the women had long hair then you need to go and study your history again, unless you only started in the last 100 years.
Do you think we would even have this post on here if there were not different minds on Paul's writings on the hair. Did Paul just feel like filling up some space in the Bible or was there a meaning behind his writing on the hair?
Last edited by a moderator:
I found this thread for the first time today.
Interesting to note that many people try to "improve" what God demonstrated in the Bible.
If anyone don't like the head covering, then she must be shorn !
Read 1 Cor 11:6
6 For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered.
Paul said in v 16 " we have no such custom, nor the assembly of God" which custom was he talking about? He was mentioning the custom of wearing no head-covering ! Did he talk about the custom of wearing head covering ? and therefore women should not wear the head covering?
Upto World War 1, mostly women wore the headcoverings, either by hats or by any fabrics when they appear at the official ceremonies, and the most of the protestant churches had their women wear the head coverings. Were they wrong ? Even today in many countries Roman Catholic instructs their women to wear the head coverings? Why? because they know that the early church had this custom instructed thru Paul, by Holy Spirit.
Do you want to teach God that it was applicable only during the Roman Empire? Do you want to teach God that head covering is a non-sense in this era? Do you want to become a teacher for God ?
As for the silence, can you not read the following verses?\
1 Cor 14
34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. 35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church
How do you think the women in the Early Church behaved ?
Oh ! are you saying that today's church is much better than the Early Church in spiritual faithfulness ?
It is not only those verses where we can find how the women should behave in the church. Read the followings:
1 Timothy 2:
11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. 12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
Was Paul wrong? Should we not believe any part of Bible teachings?
If you start to ignore any part of Bible, then you can tolerate Homosexuality, then Polygamy because Polygamy has more biblical background than homosexuality, then many, many apostasies !
As for the daughter of Philip, do you think Philip's daughter didn't wear the Head covering at the church ? Do you think Philip's daughter preached at the pulpit ?
I know there are thousands of gifts which women believers can demonstrate in Jesus Christ while they are still obeying the teachings and doctrines of Bible, and the daughter of Philip did very well even though Paul didn't accept what she suggested. Child bearing and nurturing the child as a great Christian believer is a great job which men cannot do, women can still preach the gospel to the unbelievers as Priscilla did, they can write the books for the children education, they can work for the charity ministry, Child education is an important part of their ministry, and they can be great assistants and companions for the preaching husbands. There are thousands of jobs which can be done by the sisters in the Lord while they are still faithful with Bible teachings.
In many countries, Roman Catholic do not allow the women to preach but keep them silent, have you ever argued with them about such practice ?
The criteria by which God judges everyone of believers will not be how much they preached at the pulpit or how much they became famous like Joyce Meyer (though I acknowledge her faith and a certain contribution by her, and understand her background and environment).
On the day of Judgment God will exalt many great Christian women without names known to the public, who worked quietly and silently, praying and helping other Christian workers.
I believe that many of great Plymouth Brethren believers owe a lot to their wives or women prayers. I can name some of them like
John Nelson Darby, CH McIntosh( Pentateuch Commentary), George Mueller( Father of Orphans), Robert Chapman, Sir Robert Anderson( Daniel's 70 Weeks), David Livingstone( African Missionary), Hudson Taylor ( China Inland Ministry), Erich Sauer ( Dawn of World Redemption), Harry Ironside ( Eternal Security of Salvation), Joseph Scrivener ( Hymn : What a friend we have in Jesus!), James Deck ( many worship song writer), and thousands of great believers more. God blessed the people who just gathered in the name of " Brothers and Sisters"
Our sisters in the church are never ashamed about their silence and their head coverings, but they enjoy all the blessings bestowed upon them by God as they obey to keep what He instructed them, they find the great joy coming out of the obedience to God.
Interesting to note that many people try to "improve" what God demonstrated in the Bible.
If anyone don't like the head covering, then she must be shorn !
Read 1 Cor 11:6
6 For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered.
Paul said in v 16 " we have no such custom, nor the assembly of God" which custom was he talking about? He was mentioning the custom of wearing no head-covering ! Did he talk about the custom of wearing head covering ? and therefore women should not wear the head covering?
Upto World War 1, mostly women wore the headcoverings, either by hats or by any fabrics when they appear at the official ceremonies, and the most of the protestant churches had their women wear the head coverings. Were they wrong ? Even today in many countries Roman Catholic instructs their women to wear the head coverings? Why? because they know that the early church had this custom instructed thru Paul, by Holy Spirit.
Do you want to teach God that it was applicable only during the Roman Empire? Do you want to teach God that head covering is a non-sense in this era? Do you want to become a teacher for God ?
As for the silence, can you not read the following verses?\
1 Cor 14
34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. 35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church
How do you think the women in the Early Church behaved ?
Oh ! are you saying that today's church is much better than the Early Church in spiritual faithfulness ?
It is not only those verses where we can find how the women should behave in the church. Read the followings:
1 Timothy 2:
11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. 12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
Was Paul wrong? Should we not believe any part of Bible teachings?
If you start to ignore any part of Bible, then you can tolerate Homosexuality, then Polygamy because Polygamy has more biblical background than homosexuality, then many, many apostasies !
As for the daughter of Philip, do you think Philip's daughter didn't wear the Head covering at the church ? Do you think Philip's daughter preached at the pulpit ?
I know there are thousands of gifts which women believers can demonstrate in Jesus Christ while they are still obeying the teachings and doctrines of Bible, and the daughter of Philip did very well even though Paul didn't accept what she suggested. Child bearing and nurturing the child as a great Christian believer is a great job which men cannot do, women can still preach the gospel to the unbelievers as Priscilla did, they can write the books for the children education, they can work for the charity ministry, Child education is an important part of their ministry, and they can be great assistants and companions for the preaching husbands. There are thousands of jobs which can be done by the sisters in the Lord while they are still faithful with Bible teachings.
In many countries, Roman Catholic do not allow the women to preach but keep them silent, have you ever argued with them about such practice ?
The criteria by which God judges everyone of believers will not be how much they preached at the pulpit or how much they became famous like Joyce Meyer (though I acknowledge her faith and a certain contribution by her, and understand her background and environment).
On the day of Judgment God will exalt many great Christian women without names known to the public, who worked quietly and silently, praying and helping other Christian workers.
I believe that many of great Plymouth Brethren believers owe a lot to their wives or women prayers. I can name some of them like
John Nelson Darby, CH McIntosh( Pentateuch Commentary), George Mueller( Father of Orphans), Robert Chapman, Sir Robert Anderson( Daniel's 70 Weeks), David Livingstone( African Missionary), Hudson Taylor ( China Inland Ministry), Erich Sauer ( Dawn of World Redemption), Harry Ironside ( Eternal Security of Salvation), Joseph Scrivener ( Hymn : What a friend we have in Jesus!), James Deck ( many worship song writer), and thousands of great believers more. God blessed the people who just gathered in the name of " Brothers and Sisters"
Our sisters in the church are never ashamed about their silence and their head coverings, but they enjoy all the blessings bestowed upon them by God as they obey to keep what He instructed them, they find the great joy coming out of the obedience to God.
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James_Newman said:
James,
Oh my gosh! I couldnt imagine all the ladies having to keep silent outside of church too! Talk about impossible. Maybe this is the key, that Church might of been the only place they could manage to get the women to finally shut up for a little while LOL!
Brother Bob, the very scripture you quote is what proves that the "covering" can NOT be her hair.
"If she be not covered" = short hair (according to you)
"let her be shorn" - short hair
So let me see - are you saying that it says "If she have short hair, let her have short hair".
The only way the passage makes sense is if the covering is not hair but a veil (as hebraeists can easily validate).
Now, here is the correct understanding:
If she be uncovered, let her be shorn also, for if she has no shame in uncovering her head, she should not be ashamed of cutting off her hair either.
"If she be not covered" = short hair (according to you)
"let her be shorn" - short hair
So let me see - are you saying that it says "If she have short hair, let her have short hair".
The only way the passage makes sense is if the covering is not hair but a veil (as hebraeists can easily validate).
Now, here is the correct understanding:
If she be uncovered, let her be shorn also, for if she has no shame in uncovering her head, she should not be ashamed of cutting off her hair either.
I think some of the posters on this issue better visit the assemblies ( churches) of so-called Plymouth Brethren, to see how the ladies at such church communicate, share the joy in serving the Lord, wearing the head-covering in the public service and worship service, still working for the Lord and His church as serving for the Sunday school, serving at the Sisters' council etc.
If you visit PB's, you will find it is not too difficult at all. If you start to attend there several times more, then you, as a sister in the Lord, would feel that it is strange not to have a head covering, not to keep silence in the meetings.
PB sisters don't find any difficulty or inconvenience due to the obedience to such doctrines on head covering and keeping silence.
Catholic priests wear the hats on their head despite 1 Cor 11:4
4 Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his head.
Jewish men wear hats ( Kefa) even though there is no teaching for that even in OT. It is so called Rabbinic teachings. But Paul indicates it disgrace the person.
Human beings try to pervert and deviate from the Bible teachings all the time, both men and women.
If you visit PB's either Gospel Hall or Gospel Chapel, you will find they are doing very well, obeying the teachings of Bible. Do you want to condemn them just because they are faithful with Bible teachings?
Paul says:
Gal 4:
16 Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?
I would ask:
Are they wrong because they keep the commandments of the Lord ?
If you visit PB's, you will find it is not too difficult at all. If you start to attend there several times more, then you, as a sister in the Lord, would feel that it is strange not to have a head covering, not to keep silence in the meetings.
PB sisters don't find any difficulty or inconvenience due to the obedience to such doctrines on head covering and keeping silence.
Catholic priests wear the hats on their head despite 1 Cor 11:4
4 Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his head.
Jewish men wear hats ( Kefa) even though there is no teaching for that even in OT. It is so called Rabbinic teachings. But Paul indicates it disgrace the person.
Human beings try to pervert and deviate from the Bible teachings all the time, both men and women.
If you visit PB's either Gospel Hall or Gospel Chapel, you will find they are doing very well, obeying the teachings of Bible. Do you want to condemn them just because they are faithful with Bible teachings?
Paul says:
Gal 4:
16 Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?
I would ask:
Are they wrong because they keep the commandments of the Lord ?
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Brother Bob
New Member
If my memory don't fail me I think it says "shorn or shaven". How on earth would you shave a veil. It saying if she cut it she might as well shave it.