Foxmeister
Active Member
Is God using Trump? If you say He is, can you prove it?
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Women are Not to Teach or Usurp Authority...
- Thread starter Armchair Apologist
- Start date
Ben1445
Well-Known Member
Yes. In reality, God can use anything he wants to and anyone he wants to. That doesn’t mean I have to put my stamp of approval on it. I prefer not to condone what is not happy with.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Did God use Cyrus, David, Paul, Phoebe etc.
What about every other King or leader, can you prove that He did not?
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
God seemed to be happy to use women before so why do you think He would not be happy to do so again.
It does not matter if you or I or anyone else likes what God is doing He is sovereign so He can do as He pleases to bring about His plan.
That can even mean using people that we think are not qualified or should be excluded..
Ascetic X
Well-Known Member
1 Timothy 2:12 - But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
Paul forbids women from assuming the authoritative teaching ministry of the gathered church, a responsibility joined to guarding sound doctrine and directing God’s people. Timothy served in Ephesus, where false teachers were troubling the church and leading some women astray.
Ephesus housed the Temple of Artemis—one of the Seven Wonders—whose priestesses dominated religious life; inscriptions show a matrifocal cult. First-century Ephesian society also teemed with proto-Gnostic myths exalting Eve as the bringer of enlightenment (cf. Nag Hammadi texts, Apocryphon of John).
Paul counters both tendencies: pagan female ascendancy and Gnostic reversal of Genesis. Yet he grounds his injunction not in Artemis or Gnosticism, but in Genesis itself, giving the rule universal scope.
I Timothy 2:13,14 For Adam was formed first, and then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and fell into transgression.
Paul’s syllogism:
1. Pre-Fall creation order assigns Adam headship (Genesis 2:7, 18).
2. The Fall illustrates what happens when that order is inverted (Genesis 3:17).
3. Therefore public-church governance follows creation, not culture.
Because the premise is pre-cultural, the conclusion is trans-cultural.
Parallel Passages Confirming the Principle
• 1 Corinthians 14:34-35 : “Women are to keep silent in the churches… it is shameful for a woman to speak.” Context: authoritative evaluation of prophecy (v. 29).
• 1 Timothy 3:2: an overseer must be “the husband of one wife.”
• Titus 1:5-9 parallels 1 Timothy 3, again limiting eldership to qualified men.
Cross-passage coherence demonstrates that 1 Timothy 2:12 is no isolated injunction, but is integral to Pauline ecclesiology.
Paul forbids women from assuming the authoritative teaching ministry of the gathered church, a responsibility joined to guarding sound doctrine and directing God’s people. Timothy served in Ephesus, where false teachers were troubling the church and leading some women astray.
Ephesus housed the Temple of Artemis—one of the Seven Wonders—whose priestesses dominated religious life; inscriptions show a matrifocal cult. First-century Ephesian society also teemed with proto-Gnostic myths exalting Eve as the bringer of enlightenment (cf. Nag Hammadi texts, Apocryphon of John).
Paul counters both tendencies: pagan female ascendancy and Gnostic reversal of Genesis. Yet he grounds his injunction not in Artemis or Gnosticism, but in Genesis itself, giving the rule universal scope.
I Timothy 2:13,14 For Adam was formed first, and then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and fell into transgression.
Paul’s syllogism:
1. Pre-Fall creation order assigns Adam headship (Genesis 2:7, 18).
2. The Fall illustrates what happens when that order is inverted (Genesis 3:17).
3. Therefore public-church governance follows creation, not culture.
Because the premise is pre-cultural, the conclusion is trans-cultural.
Parallel Passages Confirming the Principle
• 1 Corinthians 14:34-35 : “Women are to keep silent in the churches… it is shameful for a woman to speak.” Context: authoritative evaluation of prophecy (v. 29).
• 1 Timothy 3:2: an overseer must be “the husband of one wife.”
• Titus 1:5-9 parallels 1 Timothy 3, again limiting eldership to qualified men.
Cross-passage coherence demonstrates that 1 Timothy 2:12 is no isolated injunction, but is integral to Pauline ecclesiology.
Ben1445
Well-Known Member
That is your opinion that I am assuming that you are applying to women pastors.
On the subject of women pastors, 1Timothy.
Your question is poorly worded. I assume you are referring to women pastors but you have now left it wide open.
God created women to be a help, a supporting completer not a leader. That was already taken care of.
You speak very broadly here and you are including in God’s plan things that He has instructed us against. You have adopted determinism because it fits your preferred view. If we were talking about Calvinism, you would be upset that God is reported to be in conflict with Himself. Now you don’t mind. Convenient for you but not consistent.
That doesn’t mean that was the way God intended it to be. God can get done what He wants to in spite of people. That doesn’t mean that whatever people are doing is right. Maybe you have forgotten? Jesus died to straighten out a world that mixed up the order He designed. Jesus came to restore obedience to mankind. I don’t think it is a good idea to decide that God wants us to go against His order to get His work done.
It’s like saying God is not in favor of debt so I’ll rob a bank to get the money to pay my debts.
Two wrongs don’t make a right.
And I will not put an okay on doing things the wrong way because God can overcome our disobedience.
I don’t think God intends for us to do wrong in order for Him to have a challenge.