Women deacons

[OldRegular]

But isn't it true that deacons are servants? They were not to exercise authority over anyone anyway. Deacons are not to serve as a board that rules the church, they are simply to serve. It is not to be treated as an exalted position, but one of humility.

I agree but in many churches they do, rule that is; not serve except communion.

 

[convicted1]

In the ORBs I have been around, the title "deaconess" means "the wife of a deacon". They don't have any authority whatsoever, but are to be a "helpmate" to her deacon husband. During communion, the deacons and deaconesses prepare the table, but the Elders and/or Deacons are the ones who give the blessings over the unleavened bread and fruit of the vine or wine. The deaconesses serve the women, and the deacons serve the men.

 

[Thomas Helwys]

The qualifications for female deacons are found in 1 Timothy 3:11:
"Women must likewise be dignified, not malicious gossips, but temperate, faithful in all things." (NASB)

There is no Greek word that specifically means "wives", so the most literal way to translate the word is "women."

An appeal to a deacon being "the husband of one woman" is lacking because women are not going to have wives and did not have the social standing to violate that standard in the culture. They were not in a position to divorce anyone nor have multiple spouses at the same time. As I understand the "husband of one woman" passage, Paul is describing a trait of character - "a one woman man." That is, a person who is devoted to his spouse and is not flirting or carrying on with other women. Since we live in a very different culture than the first century, we should also use the same standards for female deacons - she must not be a flirt or carry on with other men. She should be devoted to her husband if she is married.

An appeal to the idea that women should not have authority over men only reveals how messed up the concept of deacon has become in modern days. Deacons are servants of the church - not authorities or rulers. The only authority they wield is the moral and spiritual authority of being a person of character and service.

Our church has quite a few female deacons who serve the congregation and the community quite admirably for special needs, times of crisis, and day-to-day benevolence. They also participate in serving Communion and making guests to our worship service feel welcome and introducing them to members who have similar backgrounds and interests in order to get them connected.

Thanks for your sensible, historically and scripturally accurate post!

 

[USN2Pulpit]

Absolutely!

The only thing I might add to your summation is that if a deacon is truly a servant, God will exalt him/her in the eyes of the congregation and community. But it is not about ecclesiastical authority.

Thanks, Baptist Believer. I appreciate this explanation, and agree with it whole-heartedly. After all, aren't we taught the the Lord will humble the proud and exalt the humble?

 

[jaigner]

Here's a good treatment of the issue. I suggest reading it.

"No, the problem in the church is not strong women, but rather weak men who feel threatened by strong women, and have tried various means, even by dubious exegesis to prohibit them from exercising their gifts and graces in the church."

 

[annsni]

Considering he throws doubt at the Scriptures, stating that a portion of the Scriptures might not actually be original doesn't give me much faith in him.

I'm sorry but his exegesis is all wrong.

 

[12strings]

"No, the problem in the church is not strong women, but rather weak men who feel threatened by strong women, and have tried various means, even by dubious exegesis to prohibit them from exercising their gifts and graces in the church."

Ok, You've found us out! All us complimentarians KNOW the egalitarians are right...We've worked very hard to keep what we know to be the truth hidden from our congregations and women in order to keep hold of our positions of power, because we want to make sure that women don't have any say in what goes on. We definitely don't want any women exercising their gifts and graces in the church. Wanting to be faithful to the scriptures in what they teach about gender roles has nothing to do with it...we made all that stuff up.

(Disclaimer: The above is not true)

 

[jaigner]

Ok, You've found us out! All us complimentarians KNOW the egalitarians are right...We've worked very hard to keep what we know to be the truth hidden from our congregations and women in order to keep hold of our positions of power, because we want to make sure that women don't have any say in what goes on. We definitely don't want any women exercising their gifts and graces in the church. Wanting to be faithful to the scriptures in what they teach about gender roles has nothing to do with it...we made all that stuff up.

(Disclaimer: The above is not true)

If it's not true, why won't you let women serve as God calls them?

 

[12strings]

If it's not true, why won't you let women serve as God calls them?

1. Because you asking us to do something we truly believe to be unbiblical...

2. Because we believe it to be unbiblical, and because we believe God does not currently call people to do things his word says they should not do, it logically follows that if a woman desires to be the next pastor of our church, we believe it is not a true calling from God. Other examples of this principle would be:
-A single 30 year old man who said the Lord was calling him to one-on-one counseling with teen girls.
-A man with 4 wives who said he felt called to be our pastor.

3. Now, this does not mean her calling to teach God's word and help people understand and apply it is invalid...simply that she must apply that calling within the bounderies Scripture has given (as we truly believe, not that we are making up because we don't like women.)

4. To attribute the entirity of complimentarianism to gender hatred or fear is simply unfair, untrue, and not helpful to the discussion...proven by the fact that there are people who truly believe that their wife to be wiser, more godly, and more gifted than them, but they also truly believe putting her in a pastoral role would violate God's revealed design.

 

[Bronconagurski]

1. Because you asking us to do something we truly believe to be unbiblical...

2. Because we believe it to be unbiblical, and because we believe God does not currently call people to do things his word says they should not do, it logically follows that if a woman desires to be the next pastor of our church, we believe it is not a true calling from God. Other examples of this principle would be:
-A single 30 year old man who said the Lord was calling him to one-on-one counseling with teen girls.
-A man with 4 wives who said he felt called to be our pastor.

3. Now, this does not mean her calling to teach God's word and help people understand and apply it is invalid...simply that she must apply that calling within the bounderies Scripture has given (as we truly believe, not that we are making up because we don't like women.)

4. To attribute the entirity of complimentarianism to gender hatred or fear is simply unfair, untrue, and not helpful to the discussion...proven by the fact that there are people who truly believe that their wife to be wiser, more godly, and more gifted than them, but they also truly believe putting her in a pastoral role would violate God's revealed design.

Good post. We humans are always tying to help God out because we don't think God said what He meant. We substitute our judgment, like the prevalent thought in liberal Christian circles: "Why shouldn't two men or two women that truly love each other be allowed to marry, after all, God is love and He made them that way." See, the word of God is not honored anymore. When God said that marriage was between a man and a woman, He meant it. A gay marriage is rebellion against God and His plan for mankind. And I don't mean to be cruel, but a woman Pastor is also rebellion against and His plan for the church. Those who do not think God is serious about the local church better re-read the scriptures.

 

[convicted1]

Good post. We humans are always tying to help God out because we don't think God said what He meant. We substitute our judgment, like the prevalent thought in liberal Christian circles: "Why shouldn't two men or two women that truly love each other be allowed to marry, after all, God is love and He made them that way." See, the word of God is not honored anymore. When God said that marriage was between a man and a woman, He meant it. A gay marriage is rebellion against God and His plan for mankind. And I don't mean to be cruel, but a woman Pastor is also rebellion against and His plan for the church. Those who do not think God is serious about the local church better re-read the scriptures.

:thumbs::thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:

 

[convicted1]

1. Because you asking us to do something we truly believe to be unbiblical...

2. Because we believe it to be unbiblical, and because we believe God does not currently call people to do things his word says they should not do, it logically follows that if a woman desires to be the next pastor of our church, we believe it is not a true calling from God. Other examples of this principle would be:
-A single 30 year old man who said the Lord was calling him to one-on-one counseling with teen girls.
-A man with 4 wives who said he felt called to be our pastor.

3. Now, this does not mean her calling to teach God's word and help people understand and apply it is invalid...simply that she must apply that calling within the bounderies Scripture has given (as we truly believe, not that we are making up because we don't like women.)

4. To attribute the entirity of complimentarianism to gender hatred or fear is simply unfair, untrue, and not helpful to the discussion...proven by the fact that there are people who truly believe that their wife to be wiser, more godly, and more gifted than them, but they also truly believe putting her in a pastoral role would violate God's revealed design.

:thumbs::thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:

 

[annsni]

Amen to what Bronconagurski and 12strings said.

As I've said before, our church has a LOT of women in leadership and without them, we'd be sunk. Right now, 2 of the 5 classes taught on Wednesday are taught by women. But both classes are geared towards women.

We absolutely believe the Scriptural directives about women but you will find strong, smart, leadership quality women working in and for our church within those guidelines. We don't have women doing the "housework" (our custodian are actually men) or whatever but they are in counseling, teaching, mentoring, organizing, leading, etc. Great women showing that they can use their gifts for God in a mighty way while working within the boundaries of His Word.

 

[Thomas Helwys]

Since Romans 16:1 clearly teaches that Phoebe served in the OFFICE of deacon, that settles the matter as far as I'm concerned. This also means that the scriptures being used here to refute that are being misused and incorrectly interpreted.

 

[annsni]

Since Romans 16:1 clearly teaches that Phoebe served in the OFFICE of deacon, that settles the matter as far as I'm concerned. This also means that the scriptures being used here to refute that are being misused and incorrectly interpreted.

It does NOT clearly teach that Phoebe served in an office at all.

What do you say to 1 Timothy 3? You ignore that entire passage, don't you?

 

[michael-acts17:11]

Phoebe served as a deacon (servant), with all the Scriptural authority given to that office. And that, by the way, would be none. When we say that women cannot fill the office of a deacon, it is in reference to the current unScriptural office. Deacons are servants, not elders. Deacons are for mowing the grass, feeding the shut-ins, cleaning the meeting house, repairing squeaky auditorium door hinges, etc; not heading committees & boards. Any deacon who holds authority within the church is NOT a deacon. He/she is an elder. The confusion stems from a departure from the Biblical paradigm of multiple equal authority elders leading the church & multiple deacons fulfilling the menial tasks of the church.

 

[Jerome]

So Romans 16 takes precedence over 1 Timothy 3?

What do you say to 1 Timothy 3? You ignore that entire passage, don't you?

Mark Dever in A Display of God's Glory:

That deacons are commanded to be the “husband of one wife” does not preclude the service of women in diaconal positions. The example of Phoebe in Romans 16:1, the use of the deacon words elsewhere of women in the Scriptures, and to a lesser degree, the long history of deaconnesses in Baptist churches, has led our own church happily to embrace the ministry of women serving us as deacons.

 

[annsni]

Phoebe served as a deacon (servant), with all the Scriptural authority given to that office. And that, by the way, would be none. When we say that women cannot fill the office of a deacon, it is in reference to the current unScriptural office. Deacons are servants, not elders. Deacons are for mowing the grass, feeding the shut-ins, cleaning the meeting house, repairing squeaky auditorium door hinges, etc; not heading committees & boards. Any deacon who holds authority within the church is NOT a deacon. He/she is an elder. The confusion stems from a departure from the Biblical paradigm of multiple equal authority elders leading the church & multiple deacons fulfilling the menial tasks of the church.

Then why was Paul's qualifications to the office including that the person be a man?

 

[annsni]

Mark Dever in A Display of God's Glory:

What is his definition of "deacon"?

 

[OldRegular]

Amen to what Bronconagurski and 12strings said.

As I've said before, our church has a LOT of women in leadership and without them, we'd be sunk. Right now, 2 of the 5 classes taught on Wednesday are taught by women. But both classes are geared towards women.

We absolutely believe the Scriptural directives about women but you will find strong, smart, leadership quality women working in and for our church within those guidelines. We don't have women doing the "housework" (our custodian are actually men) or whatever but they are in counseling, teaching, mentoring, organizing, leading, etc. Great women showing that they can use their gifts for God in a mighty way while working within the boundaries of His Word.

One reason that women are so active in Church is that many men are simply too lazy. One of the requirements to be a deacon in a Church of which I was a member is that they attend all worship services, including SS and Church training, unless providentially hindered. I have seen the time when we could not get a quorum for business meeting on Wed. night because of the absence of deacons.

I was Director of Church Training in that Church for three years many years ago. Most of the deacons would not come. I asked the pastor if he would teach a special class for the deacons since they would not stoop to attend a class with lesser beings. He was perfectly willing. I attended a deacon's meeting where I presented the idea to them, reminding them of the covenant they had made with the congregation. I leave the rest to your imagination or perhaps your experience.