I do agree that a 40 hour work week is not ideal for women and that their home should be their primary ministry. However in today's culture, in today's world of excess taxes and high cost of living, many women DO need to work and thus we have a conundrum. I'm not even speaking of women who want the second Lexus or anything but those families for whom not having the second income means that they have no home for whatever reason. With one family I know, the husband was a professional commercial plumber and he was hit in the arm with a large pipe, breaking it in 5 places. He had surgery and it's now a year later and he cannot use that arm well enough to continue in his former job. Disability was not enough to support the family so finally his wife had to go out to get a job while he stayed home with the kids. He has tried to find other work but he's not trained in anything else and having his arm almost useless, he just cannot get anything. So the wife works full time now. It's not ideal but it's much better than going on welfare or whatever. Sometimes life just happens, you know?
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Women in the workplace.
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I do agree that a 40 hour work week is not ideal for women and that their home should be their primary ministry. However in today's culture, in today's world of excess taxes and high cost of living, many women DO need to work and thus we have a conundrum. I'm not even speaking of women who want the second Lexus or anything but those families for whom not having the second income means that they have no home for whatever reason. With one family I know, the husband was a professional commercial plumber and he was hit in the arm with a large pipe, breaking it in 5 places. He had surgery and it's now a year later and he cannot use that arm well enough to continue in his former job. Disability was not enough to support the family so finally his wife had to go out to get a job while he stayed home with the kids. He has tried to find other work but he's not trained in anything else and having his arm almost useless, he just cannot get anything. So the wife works full time now. It's not ideal but it's much better than going on welfare or whatever. Sometimes life just happens, you know?
I understand and I agree that sometimes it has to happen. But what we are discussing on this topic is the rule not the exception. If you agree that that it is best or ideal then shouldn't that be the thing we work hardest to achieve? Getting my wife home with or two small kids and the new on that's on the way required a lot change. I had to sale my motorcycle, cut off the cable, and do a list of other painful things...but we felt it was worth it so my wife could be home and fulfill her biblical duty to keep the home because we feel the rule is be home. Does this make sense?
Absolutely. I think it's best to be home. No question about it and I thank God that even when I do need to work, my kids can come with me (unless someone is home with them like my husband or my older girls). I'm also blessed with a lot of flexibility so that when, like on Friday when my son came down ill, I was able to come home and work at another time.
But I don't think that every working mom is disobeying the Word and we need to judge what's truly going on other than just the "You work outside the house so you are in sin" sort of thing. I also think that churches need to teach priorities and how to live frugally - and make frugal "normal" in their culture. Frugal around here is only having cars that are more than 5 years old and going for the top of the line Honda as opposed to the Acura. Frugal is getting fast food 3 nights a week rather than going to the restaurant 3 nights a week.
So there are steps that can be taken before a mom "needs" to work.
menageriekeeper
Active Member
I fully agree with Ann. Ideal is what we work for and I am mostly a stay at home, homeschooling mom. Mostly.
But I have other skills as well. If I didn't use them to some extent, I would lose them. Luckily enough, most times I can work from the house so it doesn't interfere with anything here.
But that is the ideal for us Christians. The OP didn't specify Christian or non. And I draw a line at requiring nonChristians to live up to our ideals.
But I have other skills as well. If I didn't use them to some extent, I would lose them. Luckily enough, most times I can work from the house so it doesn't interfere with anything here.
But that is the ideal for us Christians. The OP didn't specify Christian or non. And I draw a line at requiring nonChristians to live up to our ideals.
Absolutely. I think it's best to be home. No question about it and I thank God that even when I do need to work, my kids can come with me (unless someone is home with them like my husband or my older girls). I'm also blessed with a lot of flexibility so that when, like on Friday when my son came down ill, I was able to come home and work at another time.
But I don't think that every working mom is disobeying the Word and we need to judge what's truly going on other than just the "You work outside the house so you are in sin" sort of thing. I also think that churches need to teach priorities and how to live frugally - and make frugal "normal" in their culture. Frugal around here is only having cars that are more than 5 years old and going for the top of the line Honda as opposed to the Acura. Frugal is getting fast food 3 nights a week rather than going to the restaurant 3 nights a week.
Glad we are starting to find some common ground Ann:thumbsup:
I still have a few more things to get off my chest and I think I will be done with this thread. You are correct that we should not lord a rule over the heads of women by saying it is a sin to work. I think what we are dealing with is a 1 Corinthians 10:23 type of issue. It is lawful for a woman to work but I think scripture makes it clear that it is not profitable or best. And yes we need to do a better job in our churches in teaching people that you don't have to spend money on a majority of the things we spend money on. We should teach men to do without if that is what it takes to bring mom home. Its hard for me to listen to a man disagree with me on this topic by saying they can't afford to live without the mom's income when he has a new bass boat or some other big boy toy. I am just convinced that a lot more women could be home if they really wanted to.
menageriekeeper
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Ah, but we live in a fallen world where things often aren't "best". Take a friend of mine who's husband suffers from undiagnosed for YEARS, MS. He never realized that the symptoms he was having signaled that something was vitally wrong with his body. Now they have children to raise and he is so crippled from the disease that it is not safe to leave him home to baby sit their chldren. Thankfully, they have older teenagers to help out while mom goes to work. Not best, but the best they can do.
Then there is the friend whose husband had an accident at work and somehow broke a vertebrae in his back. Then while the docs were fixing the first problem, more fractures appeared. And then some more. And then, the husband's sister began breaking bones unexpectedly. The problem was finally diagnosed as genetic.
Who should support these families? Is it better for the woman to work or for welfare to pay their bills? (and certainly both cases will qualify for disability, but you can ask some of the members here how far disability will take a family with children)
See, in the past there was no choice. The family simply had to suffer if the husband/father couldn't or wouldn't work. There were no jobs for women (or very few) because the "best standard" was held on to as "the only standard" and allowances were not made for cases such these. (no welfare back then either)
I absolutely agree with this!
A good solution would be one where single women could work as they wished and married women as they needed to, without the burden placed on them that they are contributing to the downfall of society. You take that same man with his new bass boat. He'll tell you that his family wouldn't survive without his wife's income. It's not just that women WANT to work and place that above the needs of the family, the true problem is this country's overwhelmiing selfishness that turns wants into needs. It has gone on so long, that most people can't tell the difference any more.
You just can't blame it all on women who wanted and needed choices in employment. (yes I know, you personally haven't said that, but some here have implied such)
I agree with you on this. I don't know if I posted it here but a woman I knew LOVED working. When she had her first son, she went back to work when he was 5 weeks old and he was raised in day care. I asked her if she had to work and she said "No. I'd go crazy being home all day doing nothing watching him. I love my career." Now, know that she was a secretary so it's not like a high powered career. When she had her second son, I thought maybe she'd stay home then. Nope. She actually told me that there were some mornings the baby was fussy and she couldn't get ready for work so she'd take him over to day care and then come back home, finish getting ready then bring the toddler over to day care too. So here's this weeks old baby who is a "bother" and gets dumped off at day care because of that. That bothered me SOOOOOO much. I mean what are you telling your kid?? THAT is what bothers me with some working mothers.
Then there are other working moms who's heart is home. If there was any way they could, they'd have mom stay home. But to keep a roof over their head (and a leaky one at that) and macaroni and cheese on the table, she needs to work. That's a different story.
Of course I don't believe that way, and that's not the stance I'm defending. Men are the head of the woman because of Creation, not because of sin.
Magnetic Poles
New Member
The whole idea that women must be subservient to men is archaic and absurd.
menageriekeeper
Active Member
Which is scriptually sound whereas the other view is not. Means we agree..........................................
That is a great chapter and verse:BangHead:. Sorry for the tone but that statement gets thrown around too much. To say that men and women have equal value is true for the Bible teaches us that. But to say that their roles are not different is absurd and misinformed. For the Bible clearly teaches that the roles for men and woman are different.
Magnetic Poles
New Member
The Bible also teaches it is a sin to wear clothing made of mixed fabric. Got any cotton/polyester shirts?
read all verses in conversation with, rather than isolation from, the rest of the bible. Amen
What is the principle in that text? While the law may not apply the principle behind the law certainly does. But ultimately this has zero to do with the topic at hand. So before you randomly throw around passages why not deal with the topic and defend your position with more than opinion and verses that have nothing to do with the debate?
It is bizarre that people take a few passages out of their 1st century context and superimpose them over us today. It is also discouraging that people say things like "the Bible clearly teaches" when the Bible must be interpreted. It takes careful exegesis and faithful hermeneutic.
To say the Bible clearly teaches that men and women have different roles calls into question the faith and faithfulness of the committed Christians who hold the Bible in high esteem, who study it and listen to it, who have come to different conclusions about this issue.
To say the Bible clearly teaches that men and women have different roles calls into question the faith and faithfulness of the committed Christians who hold the Bible in high esteem, who study it and listen to it, who have come to different conclusions about this issue.
Interesting. Too bad the Scriptures in question disagree with you.
I grew up on a dairy farm where all of us milked the cows and all of us worked in the home. We worked many more hours than a 9-5 job and everything that was important got done. It is not so much about how much time is available but what is done with the time available.
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