Women Leading Prayer and Singing...?

[TCGreek]

Wait a minute, TCGreek. You ask for scripture disqualifying women from doing these things in church, when I respond none, then you ask me for scripture that condones these activities in church. Doesn't it stand to reason that if they are not prohibited from engaging in singing and praying in church they are therefore allowed to?

1. Shouldn't Scripture be the rule of faith and practice in the life of the church?

2. Therefore, we must have Scripture to support what we believe and practice.

 

[Cutter]

1. Shouldn't Scripture be the rule of faith and practice in the life of the church?

2. Therefore, we must have Scripture to support what we believe and practice.

Sure Scripture should support what we practice and preach, but just because Scripture doesn't come out and explicitly state something doesn't mean that you cannot reach a conclusion about a subject by collectively taking into account overall Scripture regarding the roles males and females fill in the Body of Christ. You yourself could not give a definitive scripture in the Calvinists thread about children going to hell, but you did voice your opinion, probably by doing what I just mentioned.

 

[TCGreek]

Sure Scripture should support what we practice and preach, but just because Scripture doesn't come out and explicitly state something doesn't mean that you cannot reach a conclusion about a subject by collectively taking into account overall Scripture regarding the roles males and females fill in the Body of Christ. You yourself could not give a definitive scripture in the Calvinists thread about children going to hell, but you did voice your opinion, probably by doing what I just mentioned.

I provided some Scriptures, but I haven't seen any from you.

 

[npetreley]

What? Seven pages and nobody thought it was a good idea for women to use semaphore? You women have something against waving flags?

:laugh:

 

[Cutter]

I provided some Scriptures, but I haven't seen any from you.

1 Samuel 1:26 And she said, Oh my lord, [as] thy soul liveth, my lord, I [am] the woman that stood by thee here, praying unto the LORD.

Hannah thought it not wrong to pray before Eli the Priest before the temple door in the OT. Although she was rebuked by man (Eli), God heard and answered her prayer.

Psalms 150:1 Praise ye the LORD. Praise God in his sanctuary: praise him in the firmament of his power.
:2 Praise him for his mighty acts: praise him according to his excellent greatness.
:3 Praise him with the sound of the trumpet: praise him with the psaltery and harp.
:4 Praise him with the timbrel and dance: praise him with stringed instruments and organs.
:5 Praise him upon the loud cymbals: praise him upon the high sounding cymbals.
:6 Let every thing that hath breath praise the LORD. Praise ye the LORD.

Women have breath, women can pray, women can sing, women can praise the Lord.

 

[Sopranette]

What? Seven pages and nobody thought it was a good idea for women to use semaphore? You women have something against waving flags?

:laugh:

I had no idea what semaphore was. So I looked it up. Then I laughed!

love,

Sopranette

 

[Jerome]

Luke 2:36-38
And there was one Anna, a prophetess, the daughter of Phanuel, of the tribe of Aser: she was of a great age, and had lived with an husband seven years from her virginity;
And she was a widow of about fourscore and four years, which departed not from the temple, but served God with fastings and prayers night and day.
And she coming in that instant gave thanks likewise unto the Lord, and spake of him to all them that looked for redemption in Jerusalem.

 

[dan e.]

I happen to disagree that women should be pastors, or preachers, but sometimes I think some of you guys need a good sermon from a woman.

 

[Allan]

1 Samuel 1:26 And she said, Oh my lord, [as] thy soul liveth, my lord, I [am] the woman that stood by thee here, praying unto the LORD.

Hannah thought it not wrong to pray before Eli the Priest before the temple door in the OT. Although she was rebuked by man (Eli), God heard and answered her prayer.

Psalms 150:1 Praise ye the LORD. Praise God in his sanctuary: praise him in the firmament of his power.
:2 Praise him for his mighty acts: praise him according to his excellent greatness.
:3 Praise him with the sound of the trumpet: praise him with the psaltery and harp.
:4 Praise him with the timbrel and dance: praise him with stringed instruments and organs.
:5 Praise him upon the loud cymbals: praise him upon the high sounding cymbals.
:6 Let every thing that hath breath praise the LORD. Praise ye the LORD.

Women have breath, women can pray, women can sing, women can praise the Lord.

Here Cutter, add these to your list.

In the Upper Room of Acts 1 just before Pentacost, where the women and men were praying together in one accord as a church body.

Now this next one isn't so much about the church as it is amoungst the those of like faith.

Singing - how about the scripture which speaks of "speaking to one another in Psalms, Hymns, and Spiritual songs" - There is no gender qualification nor ciriteria whereby they must do so only the to the same sex/gender.

 

[TCGreek]

1. Apart from a woman pastoring and giving authoritative exposition on the Scriptures, I see no reason why a woman cannot leading singing and prayer.

2. I just wanted to know how some argue for or against the position.

 

[Steven2006]

Well, when someone asks others to "lead" in prayer or song, it is hard not to get that impression.

Furthermore, those we ask to lead in prayer at our local assembly are only the men who have been there some time, or that are visiting that we have known for some time. We don't hold lightly the act of praying, especially with who we choose to lead it.

As far as song leading, it is certainly a leadership position in most churches, as in ours.

I with you brother on this one. I agree with your position.

 

[TCGreek]

I with you brother on this one. I agree with your position.

What then is the meaning of 1 Cor 11:5?

 

[Steven2006]

What then is the meaning of 1 Cor 11:5?

Well, first off what is doesn't. I am sure it doesn't contradict I Tim 2:12, so that's why I agreed with Brother Williams. Woman are not to lead in Church services. So now to what it does mean. Disregarding the head covering part, because I don't think that is what you were getting at or what this thread is about. I think it means just what it says. Women may pray, women may proclaim the truth to unbelievers.

 

[David Lamb]

1. Yes, David Lamb, you are correct about hesychia, "quiet," but the context would have to determine which nuance of the word is involve.

2. For example, in Luke 14:4, it is clear that the verb form hesychazo means "to be silent, not saying a word."

3. But such is not the use of the word in 2 Thess. 3:11-12 or 1 Tim. 2:11-12.

Thanks, TC. You are a mine of information!

 

[TCGreek]

Well, first off what is doesn't. I am sure it doesn't contradict I Tim 2:12, so that's why I agreed with Brother Williams. Woman are not to lead in Church services. So now to what it does mean. Disregarding the head covering part, because I don't think that is what you were getting at or what this thread is about. I think it means just what it says. Women may pray, women may proclaim the truth to unbelievers.

1. Where did you get that "women may pray, women may proclaim the truth to unbelievers" from 1 Cor 11:5?

2. What would be the need of proper decorum if it weren't in the public assembly before men?

 

[Steven2006]

1. Where did you get that "women may pray, women may proclaim the truth to unbelievers" from 1 Cor 11:5?

By bring up that verse you obviously are trying to allude to something. I guess I don't know the point you are trying to make, so why don't you just tell me. What does that verse mean to you in relation to the OP?

 

[TCGreek]

By bring up that verse you obviously are trying to allude to something. I guess I don't know the point you are trying to make, so why don't you just tell me. What does that verse mean to you in relation to the OP?

Women led in prayer in the public assembly in the presence of men.

 

[Steven2006]

Women led in prayer in the public assembly in the presence of men.

"But every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head, for that is one and the same as if her head were shaved."

I think you are choosing to add a little more to it than it really says. I don't get from this verse that women are to lead prayer in church or to teach or have authority over men in church. There is no mention of that in this verse. It's not what the verse is addressing. I will choose to not read into the verse any more than it says. And since I don't believe scripture will contradict itself, I think 1 Tim. 2:12 does address this much more specifically:

"And I do not permit a women to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence."

 

[TCGreek]

"But every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head, for that is one and the same as if her head were shaved."

1. Where was this done? Is there anything in the context of 1 Cor 11 to help us answer this question?

I think you are choosing to add a little more to it than it really says. I don't get from this verse that women are to lead prayer in church or to teach or have authority over men in church. There is no mention of that in this verse. It's not what the verse is addressing. I will choose to not read into the verse any more than it says. And since I don't believe scripture will contradict itself, I think 1 Tim. 2:12 does address this much more specifically:

"And I do not permit a women to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence."

2. 1 Tim 2:12 is another animal for another day.

3. Above you said that 1Cor 11:5 was speaking of women addressing unbelievers, Where is that in the text?

4. You said that I've added to the text, but where is that in the text?

 

[Steven2006]

2. 1 Tim 2:12 is another animal for another day.

It might be for another day, but I think it adresses the topic at hand much more specifiacally.

3. Above you said that 1Cor 11:5 was speaking of women addressing unbelievers, Where is that in the text?

4. You said that I've added to the text, but where is that in the text?

Well, since based on what 1 Tim 2:12 says I don't think it can be talking about leading men in church as you have chosen to conclude. So I conclude that it must mean something else. And since I think scripture does clearly instruct us (all Christians men and women) that we are all to share the Gospel to the unbelieving world, I think that this is a reasonable interpretation of what it might be referring to when it mentions woman prophesies. As far as when it mentions prayer, it is that alone it mentions. Women pray in many situations and here is some instruction of that, I don't see where this verse means leading the congregation in prayer. I think this verse is intructing more on the proper attitude of these things than anything else.